Buying raw early MS Lincons. How risky is it?

SanctionII · June 23, 2008 8:26AM

I went to a small show yesterday and looked for raw early MS Lincolns in my efforts to upgrade my Lincoln Dansco.

I picked up a 1930S and a 1935D. Both are red and grade in the 64 range. I also saw lots of other raw early MS Lincolns at the show (as I have at other shows), including 1909 S VDB's, priced at hundred of dollars into thousands of dollars.

I know there are large numbers of raw early MS Lincolns in the market. At shows, dealer cases are full of them. Is it common for dealers who have these coins to not submit them for grading and sell them raw? I assume that a coin would have to be of a certain value (i.e. $100.00 dollars or more) to justify the expense of slabbing and that the bump in value for a slabbed coin would be more than enough to pay for the cost of slabbing. Is there a rule of thumb in place (so that raw Lincolns priced at a specific dollar amount or less would be relatively safe to buy)?

Or is it uncommon, with the raw coins for sale being ones that have been bodybagged, or that have never been submitted due to problems known to the dealers that own the coins (i.e. AT, or otherwise doctored)?

I am not familiar enough with raw MS early Lincolns to be willing to spend more than modest dollars on upgrade coins. That will present a problem for many of the early dates, particularly from Denver and SF.

Any words of experience and wisdom will be appreciated.

Phoenix21 · June 23, 2008 8:30AM

Pick up the Lange book "The Complete Guide to Lincoln Cents", and it will tell you for most dates what color to look for certain dates. What's the natural color normally, as most dates will differ in color (like some will have more of a subdued red, while an other will typically ahve a real bright pinkish red.) Also, look at many, many coins in the MS grade for a certain date, that will also help give you a general idea of what to look for, so you don't pick up a cleaned and retoned example. Best of luck, and post pics as you go along please.

Phoenix

rainbowroosie · June 23, 2008 8:32AM

I personally think grading raw copper is difficult; yes, I've made my share of mistakes. In particular, a very light wipe can be tough..

yellowjacket · June 23, 2008 8:44AM

"I am not familiar enough with raw MS early Lincolns to be willing to spend more than modest dollars on upgrade coins. That will present a problem for many of the early dates, particularly from Denver and SF."

I think you answered your own question in your post. If you aren't familiar enough with the series, then don't spend more than you are willing to lose. You may want to test your knowledge by picking the best you can find/afford and try sending them in. No matter what happens, you will gain knowledge from the results.

Good luck. I've taken my shots and learned a lot!

Garrow

66RB · June 23, 2008 10:19AM

I have found that there is risk involved in buying slabbed early Lincoln cents, let alone raw. That is, if you're looking for originality.

Windycity · June 23, 2008 10:32AM

At a show, I would never buy a high grade raw piece... likely submitted a number of times and body bagged. I have bought entire collections raw and done well. this one grade MS65 RD by PCGS.

lkeigwin · June 23, 2008 11:14AM

If the coin appears to be a high grade, raw early Lincoln then you should wonder why it hasn't been slabbed. Be very cautious.

Slabbing of most post-1932 Lincolns in the MS64-65 range doesn't make much financial sense. Values and risk are much lower so do your best and buy what you like.

I don't know what the PCGS and NGC BB rate is but a lot of us have seen plenty. I've even seen these TPG's BB crossovers: questionable toning and questionable color are the two most irritating, IMO. Improper cleaning is more objective and a little easier to determine.

coinbuf · June 23, 2008 11:56AM

There are many reasons why you see even key dates raw. First and formost many small dealers do not want to invest the time and money(including the lost time involved) in TPG grading. Thay are losing some $ but would prefer to turn their inventory instead of haveing it spend time in the mail. For all you know thay may have gotten the coins thru a true inheritance/death event, I have a full dansco(including all the keys bought raw) that will have to be "disposed" of some day. Then again thay may know exactly what is wrong and simply passing the buck, so to say. Treat any D or S mint MS coin prior to 1932 as a trip to Vegas, how much are you willing to gamble, you may come up 7's accross the board; then again the odds are in the house's favor

SUMORADA · June 23, 2008 12:38PM

I bought this raw on ebay a while back..........its in NGC plastic now..............PR64 BN the pics are mine, can't find the sellers pics at the moment.

ArizonaJack · June 23, 2008 12:44PM

It is tricky and takes an eye, but can be done. I have been both burned and rewarded.

Nothing beats experience, and the advise above as to " why is it raw " MUST make you really pay attention, it is good advise. There is a huge differance between a raw coin graded 65RD and the chance that it will " slab" 65RD. Tough to do.

options26 · June 23, 2008 12:46PM

<< <i>I bought this raw on ebay a while back..........its in NGC plastic now..............PR64 BN the pics are mine, can't find the sellers pics at the moment.

>>

$?

SUMORADA · June 23, 2008 12:58PM

Also this one, purchased raw on ebay, it is now in NGC plastic............PR65 BN

Buying raw early MS Lincons. How risky is it?

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