Why would anyone bid like this.... Rose PSA 10

tsalem · June 14, 2008 7:04AM

LINK...

Check out the bids...

OAKESY25 · June 14, 2008 7:07AM

it is called shilling

storm888 · June 14, 2008 7:09AM

They were running-up d***9.

storm888 · June 14, 2008 7:11AM

It might not be a shill, or it might be.

Some amateurs with OCD will bid like that.

larryallen73 · June 14, 2008 7:38AM

I don't see how one knows it is shilling? What's a card like that worth? On the other hand, if it's a consignment place that worries me that the guy who gave it to the cosignor is shilling his own auction. I guess you can big a dollar or two more and see if the potential shill comes back!?

WinPitcher · June 14, 2008 7:41AM

Isn't that seller one of the Tuttles? Also it may be a ebayer that bids in increments.

Steve

perkdog · June 14, 2008 7:59AM

Wow, all that over a card picturing the all-time hit king hitting a pop up fowl?

cavalier · June 14, 2008 9:01AM

this appears to be a classic case of shill bidding

Notice how none of the bids are designed to win (ie bidding 895 and not 901.01)
each bid was put in to see if a higher bid existed
Incremental bidders have a different bidding pattern -- they bid in smaller bites -

You bid a dozen times find the high bid and stop when you can see that with one more bid and you are high bidder
notice how the bidding stopped once the underbidder discovered the high bid

KOBEcollector · June 14, 2008 9:09AM

Wow, all that over a card picturing the all-time hit king hitting a pop up fowl?

How did a chicken get in the ballpark ?

KOBEcollector · June 14, 2008 9:13AM

Duh it was the San Diego chicken. Stupid me

fandango · June 14, 2008 9:26AM

ask Donrus

perkdog · June 14, 2008 10:23AM

<< Wow, all that over a card picturing the all-time hit king hitting a pop up fowl?

How did a chicken get in the ballpark ? >>

Im an idiot, I need to re-learn how to spell!

nam812 · June 14, 2008 10:32AM

Continually bidding $5 before the $50 increment, and then $5 before the $100 increment, and then stopping at $995 because he saw the high bidder couldn't take another hit since his max was showing at $999.99, is clearly shilling.

tsalem · June 14, 2008 10:35AM

Someone else just made a bid...
New high bidder.

nam812 · June 14, 2008 10:42AM

<< Someone else just made a bid...
New high bidder. >>

That doesn't negate the fact that there was shilling going on.

fattymacs · June 14, 2008 11:07AM

I usually bid early with a medium amount and then in the last 20 minutes or so I decide whether to put in my max price and surf elsewhere until it's over. I don't use the snipe things and probably never will. I know what I want to pay and if someone wants to buy it for more, I'll find another soon enough. I get "sniped" and it doesn't bother me, it's all a game and I can save my coins for the next play. If you win them all you bid too much, if you lose them all you're way too cheap.

storm888 · June 14, 2008 11:42AM

A lady was complaining that EBAY had cancelled all of her listings for "shill bidding."
She denied any knowledge of such activities.

Another poster offered an explanation:

"Maybe they were suspicious because you had bids. Not many people get those anymore."

DrJ · June 14, 2008 11:45AM

Guys,

There was most liely no shilling going on. One guy bid early with a relatively high max bid and all subsequent bidders did not overtake his bid, hence the larger number of incremental bids generated automatically by eBay. We will never know if it was 5 bidders or 1 bidder who continually increased the bid.

fattymacs · June 14, 2008 11:45AM

Some people probably think my quirky bidding is shill-like.

nam812 · June 14, 2008 11:54AM

<< ......We will never know if it was 5 bidders or 1 bidder who continually increased the bid. >>

I do know, it was one bidder. Look at the bid history and it is very clear.

Leiascards · June 14, 2008 1:06PM

You cannot tell for sure it is shill bidding. Many bidders bid like that they do not understand or trust the proxy system and bid like that.

There is no way the apparent shill could have known 999.99 was the bidders threshold without crossing it and canceling it. If there was a canceled bid by that bidder then yes I would say possible shill, but without that it is inconclusive.

lsutigers1973 · June 14, 2008 1:12PM

Even if it was shill bidding, the auction ended at 3 x's what the highest "shill" was.

PROMETHIUS88 · June 14, 2008 1:25PM

Andy is a stand-up guy and sells lots of high end stuff. He has no reason to shill. Maybe the guy wanted to see how high the bidder was so he knew where he would need to go at the end of the auction. That way he could bid $100 higher and snag the card.... unfortunately somone had bid $2k more than that and he wasn't able to snipe it at the end.

Leiascards · June 14, 2008 1:47PM

<< Even if it was shill bidding, the auction ended at 3 x's what the highest "shill" was. >>

See I agreee with you there the 2 bidders that brought it to the final price would have done so with or without a shill in place, but if it is a shill it is still wrong.

Boopotts · June 14, 2008 2:31PM

Looks like Jeff was the underbidder, and Patrick was the high bidder, by the time the dust settled. If this auction was being shilled then the hammer price would have been more than $3100, since I'm almost positive that Patrick would have gone higher on this card.

WinPitcher · June 14, 2008 10:15PM

It was nothing more then incremental bidding.

Steve

nam812 · June 14, 2008 10:36PM

So I am to believe that the "bidder" put in 12 bids in a period of only 6 minutes and 41 seconds, then after bidding at this frenzied pace he sees that on his 12th bid in a row he was outbid by only $4.99 (meaning the high bidder was at his maximum because eBay raises the bids by $5 at this level), and decides to call off his frantic chase for this card?

tsalem · June 15, 2008 12:41AM

<< So I am to believe that the "bidder" put in 12 bids in a period of only 6 minutes and 41 seconds, then after bidding at this frenzied pace he sees that on his 12th bid in a row he was outbid by only $4.99 (meaning the high bidder was at his maximum because eBay raises the bids by $5 at this level), and decides to call off his frantic chase for this card? >>

Well put...

bman90278 · June 15, 2008 12:51AM

Not sure we can say shilling went on there. I have done incremental bidding before with medium bids before I go up to a last second max bid. Either way, no one put a gun to the winning bidders head and from looking at his previous purchases he has another PSA Pop 1 card he purchased. For now he has Pop 1 card until another one gets slabbed.

Leiascards · June 15, 2008 12:53AM

He would not have known what the other bidders maximum was. This type bidding is common on Ebay as many buyers do not understand how the proxy system works. He would not have seen that he was outbid by 4.99. You are not understanding how the proxy system works. If an item is at 950.00 and that bidders max is 975.00, if I come in and bid 975.00 that bidder will be the high bidder because he bid first. Now if I bid 976.00 at first I will become the high bidder at 976.00 it would not have to go to the next increment in that situation. So at 995.00 the high bidder was not him but the other guy and it again told him he had to bid at least 50.00 more. So if he did he would have been the high bidder at 1000.00. By passing it is the only way he could have known the other bidders max.

Its very possible the bidder in question had a budget of 1000.00 on the card and was taking into consideration the shipping into his max bid.

The only way he would have known the others max would to have been go over it than cancel it. Most shill bidders I have seen do not use incrememental bidding like that they usually bid 2 times. Once to find the current bidders max by bidding real high and then canceling that bid then and rebidding. They also almost never have more than 20 feedback.

Bottom line is both the last 2 bidders were legit and both would have paid that price for it so even it it is a shill it did nothing to change the outcome of the listing.

lsutigers1973 · June 15, 2008 12:56AM

Wrong! If he bid 995 and the high bid was 999.99, which it was, ebay will show the highest bid at 999.99. Since that number is less than the minimum increment, you would know what the high bidders max is.

WinPitcher · June 15, 2008 1:02AM

Yes he would have saw. So what? Perhaps he then decided to wait and bid at the end at this point.

Then his snipe didn't register.

I have done exactly what that bidder has done before.

I bid my max in increments, then I see that i am less then 1 increment from taking the lead.

I then set a snipe for what i think will win. My snipe does not register as it is well below the last 2 knuckleheads bids.

Steve

Leiascards · June 15, 2008 1:02AM

Not from the way I have seen it in auction in the past. It would have shown it at 995.00 not 999.00 The incrememnts do not apply all the time. They only apply when a fresh bid is placed. So if one had bid 995.00 and the other maxed that bid at 999.99 it would have shown 995.00 to the first bidder.

If an item is at 925.00 and that bidder has a max of 980.00. I come in and bid 979.00 which is just over the next increment the original bidder will be the high bidder at 979.00. That is how it has always worked and that is what clearly happened here. The original bidder was shown as high bidder at 995.00 not 999.99.

It does not matter though the last 2 bidders were willing to pay over 3000 dollars for the card so the "shill" was negated anyway.

nam812 · June 15, 2008 1:02AM

<< .....You are not understanding how the proxy system works........ >>

You don't think so huh? Hopefully you will get it this time. If I bid $995 like the shiller did and eBay tells me that I have been outbid, then I see that my $995 bid has made the new current high bid (which we all get to see) only $999.99 then I know he is at his maximum because it only went up over my $995 bid by $4.99 and not by the normal $5 increment at that level. You're welcome.

WinPitcher · June 15, 2008 1:04AM

Let me also state that I wouldn't say that this wasn't a shill.

I am just giving other scenarios.

Steve

nam812 · June 15, 2008 1:05AM

<< ....I have done exactly what that bidder has done before....... >>

You've made 12 bids in under 7 minutes (or something even remotely close to that) and then pulled in the reigns just short of winning? He was clearly testing the high bidders limits in $50 increments.

WinPitcher · June 15, 2008 1:06AM

I agree with you Nick, however I think i may have seen it both ways.

lejas is saying that when this guy bid at 995.00 he only saw that he was still out bid and needed to bid 1000.00
to bid again.

Steve

lsutigers1973 · June 15, 2008 1:07AM

I dont think it was a shill either, but Nick said the same thing I was trying to say but he just said it better and in the Cliff notes version.

Leiascards · June 15, 2008 1:07AM

<< 

<< .....You are not understanding how the proxy system works........ >>

You don't think so huh? Hopefully you will get it this time. If I bid $995 like the shiller did and eBay tells me that I have been outbid, then I see that my $995 bid has made the new current high bid (which we all get to see) only $999.99 then I know he is at his maximum because it only went up over my $995 bid by $4.99 and not by the normal $5 increment at that level. You're welcome. >>

It showed it at 995.00 not 999.99. That is the part you are not getting. The bid by the "shiller" was only to 995.00 therefore the bid goes up to 995.00 since first bidder always gets the nod in a tie.

nam812 · June 15, 2008 1:07AM

If we're giving benefits of the doubt then it was 95% shill and 5% dumbest bidder ive ever seen.

Geez, Is the shiller in question someone here's cousin or something? (this is not directed at anyone in particular)

WinPitcher · June 15, 2008 1:08AM

You've made 12 bids in under 7 minutes (or something even remotely close to that) and then pulled in the reigns just short of winning?

Yes if there was days or hours left in the auction. Absolutley.

I would then set my snipe to win.

I see it, and have done exactly what this bidder has done many times.

Especially for cards that I feel will end higher then what the high bid is when I max it out.

I have had auctions where I have had it happen to me, ( my auctions)

Steve

nam812 · June 15, 2008 1:09AM

<< It showed it at 995.00 not 999.99. That is the part you are not getting. The bid by the "shiller" was only to 995.00 therefore the bid goes up to 995.00 since first bidder always gets the nod in a tie. >>

He gets the nod in a tie if his max bid was only $995, but it was not, it was $999.99

When the shiller bid $995 and got the red X saying he was outbid he was shown $999.99 Please understand it this time, my fingers hurt.

nam812 · June 15, 2008 1:11AM

<< Yes if there was days or hours left in the auction. Absolutley.

I would then set my snipe to win.

I see it, and have done exactly what this bidder has done many times.

Especially for cards that I feel will end higher then what the high bid is when I max it out.

I have had auctions where I have had it happen to me, ( my auctions)

Steve >>

I guess that is just a bidding strategy I am not familiar with.

WinPitcher · June 15, 2008 1:11AM

Ok, then again, I will state perhaps at this point this bidder set a snipe to win and since the other
2 later bidders bid over 3k his snipe did not register.

Steve

Leiascards · June 15, 2008 1:16AM

Not related to me just proving the "shiller" could not have known the price. I am about to prove it too on a lower priced card.

Tvac897 · June 15, 2008 1:21AM

What does shilling mean?

lsutigers1973 · June 15, 2008 1:24AM

Again, I agree with Nick and must simplify this for one stubborn person. If the high bid showed $5 and you bid $.50 at a time the highest bid from another bidder would be hidden. If the high bid was $9.99, when you got to $9.50, message would say you have been outbid. Would also show your high bid of $9.50 and current highest bid as $9.99, please bid at least $10. If you got to this point, you could then set a snipe that was higher than $9.99.

Leiascards · June 15, 2008 1:31AM

Just tested it on an item I am planning on buying and I am wrong on that one. I always snipe or use BIN so I never pay much attention to it.

Still there is not alot of proof it was a shill. As I said the bidder could have had a strict 1000 dollar budget for this card and 995.00 was his max when you count 5.00 shipping. Some bidders do not trust the proxy system. I saw an item the other day that had 13 bids and was still under 1.00 it was 2 bidders 5 centing it up.

Leiascards · June 15, 2008 1:34AM

Maybe the seller will join us shortly to answer these serious accusations against them by some members here.

Heres another case of a nibbler.. But this bidder has different feedback. The feedback is correct in this system of hidden bidders.

nibbler

more nibbling

lsutigers1973 · June 15, 2008 1:56AM

Second "nibbler" is irrelevant because he/she was the high bidder temporarily. Was tied with previous highest bidder and bid $50 more.

Boopotts · June 15, 2008 2:39AM

The problem with declaring this a shilled auction is that I'm sure, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Joe knew this card would sell for far more than 1K. It would be like shilling a PSA 9 1994 SP A-Rod up to $155.00 or something, and then stopping. What's the point? It's going to get to $155 anyway, and all you're doing is taking the risk that you'll alienate a potential bidder that's suspicious of the bidding pattern.

Why would anyone bid like this.... Rose PSA 10

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