Options
1992-D Close AM ... False Alarm on the MS68!
dpoole
Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was just looking at the pops last night for this one, after I'd picked up an AU58.
They're only 8 in all graded by both services of this issue, and the best one up to now had been an MS65 at NGC. PCGS has an MS68 listed now!!
I'm amazed this didn't make the news! Does anyone know anything about that specimen! What a find!
They're only 8 in all graded by both services of this issue, and the best one up to now had been an MS65 at NGC. PCGS has an MS68 listed now!!
I'm amazed this didn't make the news! Does anyone know anything about that specimen! What a find!
0
Comments
<< <i>
I'm amazed this didn't make the news! Does anyone know anything about that specimen! What a find! >>
MS68 isn't a particularly rare grade for modern zincolns. It's not an easy grade, by any means, but not worthy of special mentions like the MS70 zincoln was.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I'm amazed this didn't make the news! Does anyone know anything about that specimen! What a find! >>
MS68 isn't a particularly rare grade for modern zincolns. It's not an easy grade, by any means, but not worthy of special mentions like the MS70 zincoln was. >>
For a run of the mill Lincoln, I agree.
This one happens to be a 92-D 'Close AM', with a total pop of 8 in all grades!
Lincoln set Colorless Set
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I'm amazed this didn't make the news! Does anyone know anything about that specimen! What a find! >>
MS68 isn't a particularly rare grade for modern zincolns. It's not an easy grade, by any means, but not worthy of special mentions like the MS70 zincoln was. >>
For a run of the mill Lincoln, I agree.
This one happens to be a 92-D 'Close AM', with a total pop of 8 in all grades! >>
The uncertified population is much greater.
But still, I don't believe it's worthy of special mention.
<< <i>The uncertified population is much greater. >>
Really?
I'd expect you would know. Can you fill us in a little? I'd believed these were quite rare.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>
MS68 isn't a particularly rare grade for modern zincolns. It's not an easy grade, by any means, but not worthy of special mentions like the MS70 zincoln was. >>
Most of the super high grade zincolns are coming from mint sets. This one
doesn't appear at all in the sets so will be rare in high grade.
Most all of the circulation strike moderns, other than cents, come from the
mint sets.
This is my take on what you are alluding to: As the 1998, 99 and 2000 go, people are
looking for the WIDE AM - as struck with Reverse Proof Die.
In 1992, a WIDE AM is the Norm. As I understand it, the "close AM" on the "P" issue is
considered "the rarity." Just start eyeballing pocket change & note that the 92 etc have Wide AM.
If you find a P issue that has "close AM" - that's the ticket - I think!
A Numismatist - I am/ a Lincoln Expert - I am NOT!
If I am wrong, by all means DO correct me!
A guy did find a 1992-P Close AM recently. There was a Coin World feature article about it. It's the only one I know of that's been found so far.
The 1992-D Close AM had been previously discovered and known, and had been considered to be exceedingly rare.
I presume there are more out there than are publicly known (Goldeneye may have something to tell us about that), but presumably most of the existing specimens have passed into circulation, and are worn or lost.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Boom,
A guy did find a 1992-P Close AM recently. There was a Coin World feature article about it. It's the only one I know of that's been found so far.
The 1992-D Close AM had been previously discovered and known, and had been considered to be exceedingly rare.
I presume there are more out there than are publicly known (Goldeneye may have something to tell us about that), but presumably most of the existing specimens have passed into circulation, and are worn or lost. >>
Another thing that many don't realize is that even if there were
millions in circulation it just doesn't matter any more. Not only are
nearly half already destroyed but there is almost no force on Earth
that will stop the lion's share of the rest from being destroyed. It
would require a national project of nearly unimaginable scope to
rescue even half of them from the garbage dump or the furnace.
It probably isn't going to happen.
What you see is what you get. This is more true with moderns than
it is with classics.
<< <i>
<< <i>Boom,
A guy did find a 1992-P Close AM recently. There was a Coin World feature article about it. It's the only one I know of that's been found so far.
The 1992-D Close AM had been previously discovered and known, and had been considered to be exceedingly rare.
I presume there are more out there than are publicly known (Goldeneye may have something to tell us about that), but presumably most of the existing specimens have passed into circulation, and are worn or lost. >>
Another thing that many don't realize is that even if there were
millions in circulation it just doesn't matter any more. Not only are
nearly half already destroyed but there is almost no force on Earth
that will stop the lion's share of the rest from being destroyed. It
would require a national project of nearly unimaginable scope to
rescue even half of them from the garbage dump or the furnace.
It probably isn't going to happen.
What you see is what you get. This is more true with moderns than
it is with classics. >>
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
I typed in the 1992-D Bn PCGS number in the pops instead of the Close AM...and got the 2AU58s and the MS68 info!
IN FACT: there remains the 2 AU5s and the MS64 specimen at PCGS for the issue. There IS no MS68!
Anyway, it got an interesting discussion going for this coin for while.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
mind you it had a multi page story in the last issue of the rare coin report to boot
<< <i>
<< <i>The uncertified population is much greater. >>
Really?
I'd expect you would know. Can you fill us in a little? I'd believed these were quite rare. >>
By "much greater" I don't mean in the thousands... maybe not even in the hundreds. But probably at least 50, at a bare minimum. By standards for moderns, that still counts as very rare.
Joshua Haynes
AU 58 would make me happy.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The uncertified population is much greater. >>
Really?
I'd expect you would know. Can you fill us in a little? I'd believed these were quite rare. >>
By "much greater" I don't mean in the thousands... maybe not even in the hundreds. But probably at least 50, at a bare minimum. By standards for moderns, that still counts as very rare. >>
Goldeneye, are you just guessing or do you know of 50 examples out there?
<< <i>
Goldeneye, are you just guessing or do you know of 50 examples out there? >>
It doesn't seem like an unreasonable estimate to me based on likely mintages
and the number of collectors looking.
But then I think there are probably 100,000 '16-D dimes out there too.
<< <i>But then I think there are probably 100,000 '16-D dimes out there too.
And some of them are actually genuine!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Goldeneye, are you just guessing or do you know of 50 examples out there? >>
It doesn't seem like an unreasonable estimate to me based on likely mintages
and the number of collectors looking.
But then I think there are probably 100,000 '16-D dimes out there too.
Well, it'd be just as reasonable to presume a whole die-run of these things. But the discovery rate for the 92-D (and the 92-P) has just been too small for there to have been a full die's worth of production.
SO...that means that the runs at both Mints were interrupted somewhere along the line when the mistake was spotted. That also means that Mint employees would have tried to recoup and destroy the mistakes.
It is simply beyond any capacity to "estimate" how many exist, under such circumstances.
Now if Goldeneye KNOWS of a cache of raw specimens of the 92-D or 92-P, I'd sure be curious, and would love to hear about it!
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>
Well, it'd be just as reasonable to presume a whole die-run of these things. But the discovery rate for the 92-D (and the 92-P) has just been too small for there to have been a full die's worth of production.
SO...that means that the runs at both Mints were interrupted somewhere along the line when the mistake was spotted. That also means that Mint employees would have tried to recoup and destroy the mistakes.
It is simply beyond any capacity to "estimate" how many exist, under such circumstances.
Now if Goldeneye KNOWS of a cache of raw specimens of the 92-D or 92-P, I'd sure be curious, and would love to hear about it! >>
The way I'm figuring is that pulling such a die would be highly improbable anyway.
Most modern varieties are exceedingly scarce and it's an even greater stretch to
imagine that they catch them with such a high degree of regularity AFTER they go
into production.
It's much easier for me to believe that these coins are hiding in plain sight. Imagine
if there were a single die pair and it made about 1,000,000 examples. After all these
years there would only be 500,000 surviving among the 175,000,000,000 cents in cir-
culation. Each person finding one would have to look at an average of 350,000 coins.
It's not as though they're labeled so the searcher almost has to be aware of the vari-
ety and has to spot it when he sees it. It seems entirely plausible to me that 50 or 100
have been found by searchers and added to their collections. People who find coins
in circulation are much less likely to sell and more likely to trade them with other collec-
tors.
I expect to see a lot of the rare moderns in circulated grades as time goes by. There
aren't going to be large absolute numbers of any but in aggregate there will be a lot.
The high absolute numbers will be diminished some day when the government melts
them down to make something usefull.
There's not only anecdotal evidence for this but you can find some pretty unusual stuff
if you keep your eyes open. I don't know if you can specifically find this coin.
The probability of a coin in circulation which is an outlyer as to grade is much higher to be
a scarce variety than a typical coin. This effect has become confounded in the higher de-
nominations in recent years because of the large numbers of mint set coins being released
but it was readily visible until recent years.
I attribute this to collectors. It would seem the coin must have been saved when it was
new or still in good shape because it was a variety but was released by a new owner who
didn't recognize it.
Of course there's also a very strong tendency for these outlyers to be very well struck now
days but this is, no doubt, because many are mint set coins.
<< <i>The vast majority are probably sitting in people's jars around their house, and will be doing so for years to come. >>
Packrats drive me crazy.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It's not as though they're labeled so the searcher almost has to be aware of the vari-
ety and has to spot it when he sees it. It seems entirely plausible to me that 50 or 100
have been found by searchers and added to their collections. People who find coins
in circulation are much less likely to sell and more likely to trade them with other collec-
tors.
I average finding one about every million cents i look at. I found three out of 2.9 mill. I don't know how I keep finding them. The one dpoole has was an earlier die stage than the other two. So I know the die made it through a pretty good ways.
<< <i>
I average finding one about every million cents i look at. I found three out of 2.9 mill. I don't know how I keep finding them. The one dpoole has was an earlier die stage than the other two. So I know the die made it through a pretty good ways. >>
Thanks for the info. With such low numbers it's difficult to make conclusive
statements but if accurate it might imply a die life of a third of a million or so.
This wouldn't be overly unusual for Lincoln dies but is much on the low side.
edited to add that the area of the country being searched is a large factor as
well.
Box of 20
<< <i>Great write up in the The Rare Coin Market Report. Got me looking for them too. >>
I was kind off affraid that would happen. LOL. I havn't seen a study on the life of the 92D close die, or if there were more than one. With numbers so low I doubt there is more than one.