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thestig
Posts: 769
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
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Comments
Dr J
My omnicoin collection (or how my coin photography has progressed)
Image in question:
<< <i>I said vulture, based on the bare legs and elongated neck >>
Eagles also have bare legs and their necks can stretch surprisingly, as can those of most birds. I don't think this is a vulture; vultures don't have feathers on their heads.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
If it's supposed to be a vulture, why have they suddenly decided to depict vultures differently to the usual way, with bare head and neck?
Now, eagles aren't easy to come by in Egypt (just like vultures aren't common in Europe). But even if the die cutters were using feathery Egyptian vultures as the models and inspirations for their coins (because they didn't have any eagles handy), the animal depicted is intended to be an eagle, because it was an eagle that was the badge of the Ptolemaic dynasty.
It's primarily a cultural thing. The Ptolemies had their origins in Greek culture, and used Greek symbolism on their coins. The chief Greek god was Zeus, and his animal symbol was an eagle. Zeus is the bearded gent you often find on the obverse of Ptolemaic "eagle" bronze coins. The Greeks recognised the old Egyptian deity Amun (or Ammon) as a form of Zeus, and assimilated him into their Zeus concept. Alexander the Great, and his Ptolemaic successors, had themselves recognised as sons of Zeus-Ammon, and took Zeus' eagle as their own personal symbol.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
<< <i>It's an eagle, and you aren't going to convince coin collectors of labelling it anything else. Numismatists are a fairly conservative bunch, and don't change their nomenclature, even when there is excellent evidence that they are wrong. In this case, I'm not so sure the evidence very strong in this case, either.
If it's supposed to be a vulture, why have they suddenly decided to depict vultures differently to the usual way, with bare head and neck?
Now, eagles aren't easy to come by in Egypt (just like vultures aren't common in Europe). But even if the die cutters were using feathery Egyptian vultures as the models and inspirations for their coins (because they didn't have any eagles handy), the animal depicted is intended to be an eagle, because it was an eagle that was the badge of the Ptolemaic dynasty.
It's primarily a cultural thing. The Ptolemies had their origins in Greek culture, and used Greek symbolism on their coins. The chief Greek god was Zeus, and his animal symbol was an eagle. Zeus is the bearded gent you often find on the obverse of Ptolemaic "eagle" bronze coins. The Greeks recognised the old Egyptian deity Amun (or Ammon) as a form of Zeus, and assimilated him into their Zeus concept. Alexander the Great, and his Ptolemaic successors, had themselves recognised as sons of Zeus-Ammon, and took Zeus' eagle as their own personal symbol. >>
Amun was tied in with the ogdoad and the primeval egg. The
egg was related to the Great Cackler and the Benu bird which
was, apparently the basis of the phoenix.
Unfortunately I've not seen any reference to the nature of the
Greak Cackler and the benu bird is believed to be mythological.
The Ogdoad was a creation scenario that was popular several
miles north of Giza well before the construction of the pyramids.
Amun was said to have created himself from an early date by
means of masturbation. Some tales have him created by Atum
but, I believe, these are later.
My guess is that the primeval egg and the ben-ben stone are
identical. The ben-ben was in Memphis to the south and was
likely the basis for the Washington Monument and one of the
commandments.
It might still be there.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
<< <i>cladking, or anyone who knows, what is the Black dot on the birds stomach? >>
It is called a "centration mark", and can be found on bronze and brass coins of Ptolemaic Egypt, Roman Bulgaria, and several other places and times. It's a large crater or dimple in the centre of the coin, and there will be a matching one on the obverse as well, such that the coin appears to almost have a hole drilled right through it.
Numismatists aren't quite certain what caused centration marks, but they were definitely applied to the coin blank prior to striking. The two leading theories I've heard are:
1. The blank was heated in a furnace of some kind until it was soft enough to strike, and the centration marks are the dints left by the tongs used to hold the blank in the fire. This theory is lent credence by the fact that the centration marks on the two sides of the coin don't always line up exactly (which might happen if the tongs were bent or damaged), and they aren't always in the exact centre of the coin - just like you'd expect if a piece of metal was being picked up with tongs.
2. The blank was placed in some kind of lathe arrangement to smooth out any lumps and bumps prior to striking, and the dints are from whatever mechanism was used to hold the blank firmly in place while it was being spun. This theory is lent credence by the fact that large bronze coins without centration marks are often less well struck, due to flaws and defects in the planchet.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
,,it won't change the fact the it is a Roman Eagle.
<< <i>No matter how many pictures of Vultures you post,,,
,,it won't change the fact the it is a Roman Eagle. >>
as of 104 bc
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
<< <i>8 Roman denarii; left to right, row 1 : ca 157 BC Roman Republic, ca 73 AD Vespasian, ca 161 AD Marcus Aurelius, ca 194 AD Septimius Severus; row 2: ca 199 AD Caracalla, ca 200 AD Julia Domna, ca 219 AD Elagabalus, ca 236 AD Maximinus Thrax >>
any way the winner is the vulture, 14 to 17 because I veto the poll.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
I am an example from the "ignorant masses" - I voted "eagle" but don't have the slightest claim to knowlege on the matter.
www.rfrajola.com