Looks like the First Strike (and bulk submit) party is over for us non-dealers

claychaser · June 3, 2008 7:50AM

Say what you want, the First Strike program has enabled myself and other collectors a way to make some money to finance our personal collections. The party is over:

New PCGS Bulk Submission Policies Effective July 1, 2008

- June 3, 2008
BULK SUBMISSIONS

Effective July 1, 2008, only PCGS Authorized Dealers may submit coins under the Bulk Submissions program. Collectors Club members who wish to submit coins under the Bulk Submissions program must either become a PCGS Authorized Dealer or submit coins through a PCGS Authorized Dealer.

SPECIAL INSERTS

Effective July 1, 2008, special inserts (First Strike, 50 States Flags, Signature Series, Satin Finish, etc.) will be available only through the Bulk Submissions program and will not be available under any other service level.

These changes are being made to speed up and streamline processing and turnaround times at PCGS. Any bulk submissions received by PCGS or postmarked before July 1 will be processed under the old Bulk Submission program rules.

========================
I guess now it's only a memory:

Order #20106800 / Submission #9070582
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 13880816 150442 2007-W $5 Eagle US MS70
1 2 13880817 150442 2007-W $5 Eagle US MS70
2 1 13880818 150441 2007-W $10 Eagle US MS70
2 2 13880819 150441 2007-W $10 Eagle US MS70
2 3 13880820 150441 2007-W $10 Eagle US MS70
2 4 13880821 150441 2007-W $10 Eagle US MS69

Total Items: 6

Date Received: 5/29/2007

Date Shipped: N/A

Order Status: Shipped

GoldenEyeNumismatics · June 3, 2008 8:02AM

I'm not a major patron of the FS designation, but I find these new rules to be unnecessary.

BECOKA · June 3, 2008 8:05AM

Hmmm, not sure how many non-dealers did this but I know in the last few years I have submitted thousands of FS coins to the bulk department. PCGS will be losing some dough here. Although I stopped doing this end of last year so no big deal for me.

JimDepot · June 3, 2008 8:14AM

Guess I will not keep my membership with PCGS if this is true.

20-30 coins a year, and some with 1st Strike.

Hope I do not get a ticket for jaywalking.

Casman · June 3, 2008 8:19AM

That's fine with me, I'll just use all the Authorized dealers in my area, Oh ya, I forgot that when I went to all of them years ago for assistance with this grading stuff they all DECLINED, and said
DO IT YOURSELF!

BECOKA · June 3, 2008 8:21AM

I guess wondercoin will have his hands full now that we will need him more than ever for this kind of stuff.

puritan9 · June 3, 2008 8:34AM

Does this mean that an individual member can't submit a set of platinum coins for FS, only regular? If that is true, I will not renew my membership. Why bother?

Bubblehead · June 3, 2008 8:47AM

Not having but two B&M shops within decent driving distance, and neither one
dealing with bulk, I guess I'm gonna have to pull the chicken switches...

Oh well..

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 8:58AM

This is gonna hurt!

Any idea what the requirements are to be a PCGS Authorized Dealer?

SNMAN · June 3, 2008 9:04AM

<< but I find these new rules to be unnecessary. >>

GRANDAM · June 3, 2008 9:15AM

Doesn't PCGS LOVE us little guys anymore???????

I am unhappy with this decision

GrandAm

Q: How do I become an Authorized Dealer?
A: There are several requirements for becoming a PCGS Authorized Dealer:

Applicant must have been a full-time dealer for at least three years.

Applicant and key employees must not have been convicted of a felony in the past five years.

Applicant must have capitalization of $100,000 or more including inventory.

Minimum of three credit references.

Minimum of three PCGS Authorized Dealer references.

If you feel you meet these requirements please contact Customer Service at (800) 447-8848 or info@pcgs.com to request an application.

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 9:37AM

Thanks Gary.

This will take the steam out of my submissions as I am now at the mercy of dealers hawking the First Strike coins and now will be at their mercy with the First Day of Issue Presidential Dollars. Some of the dealer prices being asked for these are simply rediculous. Jefferson Missing Edge lettering comes to mind.

Of course, I guess I could give them all up. No more scrambling on release day to get coins out, no more worrying about what they might or might not grade, no more prescreening for possible error coins.

This move so reminds me of the favoritism granted Power Sellers on eBay and some of their rediculous policies regarding feedback. Sorry, I just think it redefines the "As a Member, you'll have direct access to PCGS grading." being sold for the different levels of membership as bulk will no longer be an option. Bulk pricing will be based on whatever the "Authorized Dealer" wants to stick you with.

Perhaps I can work something out with one of the Sacramento Dealers?

Silverstate · June 3, 2008 9:38AM

<< Does this mean that an individual member can't submit a set of platinum coins for FS, only regular? If that is true, I will not renew my membership. Why bother? >>

PCGS will need to rethink it's decision on the First Strike thing.

So, If I buy my limit of ONE spouse coin on release date and submit it on time, it cannot be placed in a FS holder?

This was not thought out very well.

Now, I have to buy and submit via a dealer (20) coins that are @ $ 1200oz pricing to get FS labels?
AND I can't buy enough to submit to bulk for at LEAST a week after release date?

The Spouse coin sets in FS are going to tank more than they already have.

Lee, As you pointed out....
What good is all of that case cracking for Presidential Dollars before the release date?
I always send in my best 200 coins for grading.

Now what? This will take out most of the fun.
Can someone tell me WHY a Collectors club membership will have any real value after July 1st ?

bumanchu · June 3, 2008 9:57AM

This may be the beginning of the end for the F/S designation......not the end, just the beginning of it.

puritan9 · June 3, 2008 9:58AM

I will just buy the coins that I want and forget the grading part of it.

Tootawl · June 3, 2008 10:01AM

This is a dumb ass idea.

wayneme · June 3, 2008 10:17AM

So why would anyone join pcgs with the limits

GRANDAM · June 3, 2008 10:23AM

<< This may be the beginning of the end for the F/S designation......not the end, just the beginning of it. >>

Could this be the beginning of the end to alot more???

Remember the days when NOONE could to submit to PCGS except authorized dealers? I not just talking about bulk orders but anything?

I remember those days and HATED it! Are we ( the little guy) becoming more trouble than we are worth???

GrandAm

Silverstate · June 3, 2008 10:26AM

<< So why would anyone join pcgs with the limits >>

That is a very good question?

So, only If you don't get involved with First Strike, First Day of Issue, or grade Proofs or Satin coins in Bulk......Then this program is for you.

Ideal only for Classic Coin Collectors that send in a few coins here and there and can take advantage of the free grading submission afforded members of the Collectors Club.

We pay extra for a FS label when it is not in a bulk submission.

I use Express grading and pay the FS label fee on coins all of the time.
Guess, that is over...............

I thought eBay was bad with the changes that they have made.

fcloud · June 3, 2008 10:27AM

I wonder if the big dealers did some complaining? We are just small potatos, and if we are unable to submit, and if we still want to, we will need to go through a dealer. I think that would be the end for many little guys (or gals).

FLBuffaloHunter · June 3, 2008 10:34AM

Remember to send any First StrikeSM sealed boxes you have prior to the July 1st deadline or wou won't be able to get the designation. Since now they have to be submitted through bulk, a dealer won't be able to submit them for you either

… · June 3, 2008 10:40AM

wait a minute... you cant get SATIN FINISH on their?!!! That would just be blatantly mislabeling the coin inside. Thats like calling an SMS a business strike.
Edited for spelling

harvey85422458 · June 3, 2008 10:42AM

<< wait a minute... you cant get SATIN FINISH on their?!!! That would just be blatantly mislabeling the coin inside. Thats like calling an SMS a business strike.
Edited for spelling >>

They will probally just mark SF on the label somwhere

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 10:45AM

<< This may be the beginning of the end for the F/S designation......not the end, just the beginning of it. >>

You're not serious are you?

Dealers are the LARGEST submitters of First Strike coins and truley in BULK quantities!

fc · June 3, 2008 10:48AM

first strike is a joke and it is too bad they did not eliminate it totally.
instead they have given the "gravy train" to dealers so they can rip
off suckers.

as for bulk submissions disappearing for the little guy that is also
giving more power to the dealers so they can get those "wonder coin 70s" and rip more people off.

dealers are happy. collectors get screwed. you think this hobby was
setup for you? lol. this is a money making machine for the insiders.
get used to it until this whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

CB2597 · June 3, 2008 10:51AM

I guess i will not renew my membership either if this is the case. Time to look at NGC's membership.

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 10:53AM

<< Remember to send any First StrikeSM sealed boxes you have prior to the July 1st deadline or wou won't be able to get the designation. Since now they have to be submitted through bulk, a dealer won't be able to submit them for you either

>>

I asked in the other thread for an explanation because if I recall correctly, the 20th Anniversary SAE sets HAD to be submitted through the BULK department BUT there were not under BULK Submission guidlines of a 100 coin minimum. I don't see this aspect changing for limited issue coins as pointed out by Jim with the First Spouse coins.

jessewvu · June 3, 2008 10:54AM

I have no idea why they keep trying to take themselves out of business but this is surly one of the nails in the coffin for me. Why would I want to send my coins to a sleazy dealer with hunders of other coins? What is going to stop him from taking claim to MY perfect 70 and giving me some chump's 68? I just don't get it. I am sure there has to be a reason for this but I just don't understand... Who is PCGS in bed with to make this happen? Would NGC be stupid enough to follow suit? I mean, what the hell is the damn point if a PCGS customer has to PAY MEMBERSHIP and then can't send in HIS PURCHASED coins for a special label/insert? I doubt I would stay with PCGS even if they started making the subsciption free with this kind of crap happening. I would rather start giving business to NGC knowing that they didn't bend me over backwards and take a phillips to me.

I am sure PCGS would love to kick my business to the curve, especially since I now have to go out of my damn way not to submit a GARD DAM coin to them.

I hope all you whiny arse dealers that complained and moaned to make this happen go out of business. If I can't get my first strike coins by myself, I am going to stop collecting the GARD DAM things.

Goldbully · June 3, 2008 10:59AM

Could this new rule possibly affect the current pool of First Strike coins, and give them a little more collectibility??

Ok, I can dream can't I???

goldboy · June 3, 2008 10:59AM

This decision should be just enough to drop the CLT stock by 25% or more over the coming quarters........................bad for collectors and great for dealers......................

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 10:59AM

<< 

<< wait a minute... you cant get SATIN FINISH on their?!!! That would just be blatantly mislabeling the coin inside. Thats like calling an SMS a business strike.
Edited for spelling >>

They will probally just mark SF on the label somwhere >>

The bulk submissions for Satin Finish coins have a different label than regular satin finish submissions just like the State Quarters have a differnt label called the Flag Label.

halfhunter · June 3, 2008 11:01AM

<< first strike is a joke and it is too bad they did not eliminate it totally.
instead they have given the "gravy train" to dealers so they can rip
off suckers.

as for bulk submissions disappearing for the little guy that is also
giving more power to the dealers so they can get those "wonder coin 70s" and rip more people off.

dealers are happy. collectors get screwed. you think this hobby was
setup for you? lol. this is a money making machine for the insiders.
get used to it until this whole house of cards comes tumbling down. >>

Guess CU like feebay just doesn't want the small guy's money!

Regards, John

bigbadchad777 · June 3, 2008 11:02AM

WELL $HIT!!!!!

FLBuffaloHunter · June 3, 2008 11:03AM

<< 

<< Remember to send any First StrikeSM sealed boxes you have prior to the July 1st deadline or wou won't be able to get the designation. Since now they have to be submitted through bulk, a dealer won't be able to submit them for you either

>>

I asked in the other thread for an explanation because if I recall correctly, the 20th Anniversary SAE sets HAD to be submitted through the BULK department BUT there were not under BULK Submission guidlines of a 100 coin minimum. I don't see this aspect changing for limited issue coins as pointed out by Jim with the First Spouse coins. >>

The minimum bulk submission quantity varies for different coins. The 20th anniversary sets were handled through bulk, they later changed that to no minimum quantity and First StrikeSM coins could be submitted at any tier. It seems now PCGS wants to handle all special labels through bulk (like the FDI Presidential dollars).

dlimb2 · June 3, 2008 11:04AM

Stop buying graded coins!

RYK · June 3, 2008 11:05AM

I am going to withhold my opinion until I hear what Baley, stman, and DaveG have to say about this.

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 11:06AM

<< I have no idea why they keep trying to take themselves out of business but this is surly one of the nails in the coffin for me. Why would I want to send my coins to a sleazy dealer with hunders of other coins? What is going to stop him from taking claim to MY perfect 70 and giving me some chump's 68? I just don't get it. I am sure there has to be a reason for this but I just don't understand... Who is PCGS in bed with to make this happen? Would NGC be stupid enough to follow suit? I mean, what the hell is the damn point if a PCGS customer has to PAY MEMBERSHIP and then can't send in HIS PURCHASED coins for a special label/insert? I doubt I would stay with PCGS even if they started making the subsciption free with this kind of crap happening. I would rather start giving business to NGC knowing that they didn't bend me over backwards and take a phillips to me.

I am sure PCGS would love to kick my business to the curve, especially since I now have to go out of my damn way not to submit a GARD DAM coin to them.

I hope all you whiny arse dealers that complained and moaned to make this happen go out of business. If I can't get my first strike coins by myself, I am going to stop collecting the GARD DAM things.

>>

Actually Jesse, I believe the Submission form has an entry for the Authorized Dealer's Name and Number but a different location for the Shipping address. This means, that the dealer accepts your coins, submits them under his/her name but specifies a different shipping address. What concerns me the most os the increased cost incolved to the small time submitter. Most Dealers have a set rate for submissions over and above their cost to PCGS. Will my 100 coin bulk Presidential dollars now cost me $30 each or will the billing be one for one? Remember, that with bulk submissions, you specify a minimum acceptable grade. If 60% of your submission meets or exceeds that grade, then there is no charge for the coins returned. If less the 60% meet the minimum grade, you get socked for $2.00 per coin.

How will dealers address this? I guess it depends upon the dealer but I could conceivably see it being a more expensive proposition on the small submitters side.

On the other hand, one could always become a PCGS Authorized Dealer but meeting that "3 years as a coin dealer" stuff could be a bit difficult.

Does eBay count??

LindeDad · June 3, 2008 11:09AM

<< Stop buying graded coins! >>

I dought it, but I may look around for the regular labels a lot more.

jessewvu · June 3, 2008 11:10AM

They should change their name from CU to DU (Dealers Universe)

Coinlearner · June 3, 2008 11:10AM

....My membership does not expire til next year. I paid/renewed for their stated services. Will they now offer a refund to those that want to cancel for not getting what PCGS accepted payment for.........Seems only fair or give us more warning, like the first of the year......

Mar327 · June 3, 2008 11:15AM

<< This is a dumb ass idea. >>

I won't be renewing again - sorry PCGS, this isn't a good move.

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 11:15AM

<< first strike is a joke and it is too bad they did not eliminate it totally.
instead they have given the "gravy train" to dealers so they can rip
off suckers.

as for bulk submissions disappearing for the little guy that is also
giving more power to the dealers so they can get those "wonder coin 70s" and rip more people off.

dealers are happy. collectors get screwed. you think this hobby was
setup for you? lol. this is a money making machine for the insiders.
get used to it until this whole house of cards comes tumbling down. >>

Then why don't you get out of it if this is how you truely feel?

I know that the First Strike™ folks get tired of reading your pissing and moaning over not only First Strike™ but slabs as well.

notwilight · June 3, 2008 11:15AM

<< Now, I have to buy and submit via a dealer (20) coins that are @ $ 1200oz pricing to get FS labels? >>

Jim,
You could just buy one from me. Isn't one all you really need? --Jerry

wondercoin · June 3, 2008 11:16AM

My 2 cents:

I believe PCGS is determined to grow its dealer business. On top of that, dealers must sign the Licensing Agreement which contains myriad pro-PCGS provisions (as nearly all Licensing Agreement do). For example, one provision requires dealers to indemnify PCGS for coins sold that are obvious mechanical errors or otherwise obvious overgrades (and I am paraphrasing here). These provisions do not apply to non-dealers best I know. PCGS probably believes it is sound business practice to greatly increase its dealer roster at the risk of losing some non-dealer bulk business. Only time will tell if revenues increase sharply (or other positive results occur) as a result of the new practice.

Wondercoin

jessewvu · June 3, 2008 11:17AM

i just registered a new domain name.

Dabigkahuna · June 3, 2008 11:18AM

Has anyone called PCGS?

The way I read it that you will not able to submut to the Bulk Dept and get the same Bulk fee's that dealers do.

I would still think that you just submit your First Strike Submissions and it gets sent to bulk anyway but you just pay the normal Collectors fee and the extra $10 bucks for the the FS label.

NO?

19Lyds · June 3, 2008 11:21AM

<< My 2 cents:

I believe PCGS is determined to grow its dealer business. On top of that, dealers must sign the Licensing Agreement which contains myriad pro-PCGS provisions (as nearly all Licensing Agreement do). For example, one provision requires dealers to indemnify PCGS for coins sold that are obvious mechanical errors or otherwise obvious overgrades (and I am paraphrasing here). These provisions do not apply to non-dealers best I know. PCGS probably believes it is sound business practice to greatly increase its dealer roster at the risk of losing some non-dealer bulk business. Only time will tell if revenues increase sharply (or other positive results occur) as a result of the new practice.

Wondercoin >>

I'd agree with you Mitch but John Albanese is still a PCGS Authorized Dealer. Isn;t this a conflict of interest? If not, please enlighten me.

jessewvu · June 3, 2008 11:22AM

<< I would still think that you just submit your First Strike Submissions and it gets sent to bulk anyway but you just pay the normal Collectors fee and the extra $10 bucks for the the FS label.

NO? >>

Only Dealers can submit bulk, only bulk orders get special inserts. You must be a dealer to get a special insert.

tmcsr69 · June 3, 2008 11:22AM

<< first strike is a joke and it is too bad they did not eliminate it totally.
instead they have given the "gravy train" to dealers so they can rip
off suckers. >>

I agree with this thought. I have never understood the thrill of the FS coins. In many cases, there are more FS coins than non FS graded coins. The FS designation is a merchandising gimick for the TV hawks and major dealers. It makes no sense that the month a coin is minted in affects a coins grade or value.

direwolf1972 · June 3, 2008 11:25AM

What a horrible idea.

What was PCGS thinking?

claychaser · June 3, 2008 11:25AM

<< 

<< first strike is a joke and it is too bad they did not eliminate it totally.
instead they have given the "gravy train" to dealers so they can rip
off suckers. >>

I agree with this thought. I have never understood the thrill of the FS coins. In many cases, there are more FS coins than non FS graded coins. The FS designation is a merchandising gimick for the TV hawks and major dealers. It makes no sense that the month a coin is minted in affects a coins grade or value. >>

I make no argument pro or con about the virtues of "First Strike". But this program has been a vehicle for collectors to buy this stuff from the mint at the same price the big guys do, screen out the clinkers, and make some "70" coins to sell at a profit.

Looks like the First Strike (and bulk submit) party is over for us non-dealers

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