Please keep your eyes out for these cards!! **Updated**
mmync
Posts: 678 ✭
Well, it looks like my very first submission, and 5 other peoples submissions are gone and never coming back. I don't think they are 100% sure of whether the packages where lost or stolen, but it sounds like they were stolen per the last update I received... "This has been officially turned over to the Los Angeles USPS Investigating team and all warehouse searching has been completed". I just thought I would give everyone a little heads up, and hopefully save someone from making the same mistakes I made which was under insuring them because of A) They will be shipped back Registered mail and B)It wouldn't be worth the extra money unless they get 9's or 10's. Just in case you do under insure them, and you end up getting 10's on some zero pop modern card's, such as the two Nolan Ryan Silver Die-cut's I sent in, make sure that you call psa as soon as you see your grades pop, and tell them to bump up the insurance on them before they get sent back. Also, make sure that you save any receipts that prove their value, because having them insured for a certain amount is not enough, because it then has to be proven that they were actually worth the amount which you insured them for. And you can kiss your submission fee's goodbye, because they won't be covered by the insurance, and you’re not going to get any kind of credit or voucher from Psa. Just in case someone is stupid enough to try selling these cards without cracking them out, here are my submission results. If anyone else is interested in posting the submission numbers for the cards they are missing, you are more than welcome to share my milk carton.
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company if there is any coverage for items lost in this manner.
(Don't take the first "no" as the final answer.)
I thought this was super safe.. I am a little freaked that this could happen
and why do we have to show proof of what it is "valued at"
isn't that the point of over insuring?? we are insuring the value we say it is worth to us
it is not all monetary value involved.... sorry this happened to you.. I hope at some point these cards make it to your door...
not sure who is at fault.. be it psa or the usps... but it seems very messed up..
<< <i>how can this happen?? aren't we paying for certified?? where each handler has to sign for the item??
I thought this was super safe.. I am a little freaked that this could happen
and why do we have to show proof of what it is "valued at"
isn't that the point of over insuring?? we are insuring the value we say it is worth to us
it is not all monetary value involved.... sorry this happened to you.. I hope at some point these cards make it to your door...
not sure who is at fault.. be it psa or the usps... but it seems very messed up.. >>
I also thought they were signed for by each and every handler and locked up during shipment. Special tape is required so the box cannot be cut and retaped. Maybe our resident USP worker can come in and explain how this can happened. Sorry to hear about your loss. Joe
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
1. In all reality, the reason why we send our cards to Psa.... Is to find out what they may be worth!!
2. If Psa can't prove the value of a card, then how can anybody??
3. How can they prove, or not prove, the value of a zero pop 10?
4. How can they prove or not prove the value of the Billy Ripken "Strip cut out of bottom" F**K FACE card, if they didn't grade it because they didn't have an example?
5. Wtf is the point of sending something registered mail?? How does it end up benefiting me compared to regular insured mail??
6. I'm sure that there are a lot of people that send cards in for grading because of what they are going to be worth tomorrow... Not today!!!
7. What if you can't prove the value?? Why does someone still get to keep the extra money you paid for insurance? I highly doubt you'll get refunded the difference.
8. If the post office does not want to pay what you insured an item for... then don’t lose, or allow someone to steal it.
9. I understand that there is a good chance that the items may have been stolen at or on some kind of American or United Airlines type of plane or sorting terminal. Well... start sending the stuff on Air force fricking one or something, with postal employees handling it the whole way. Don't just dump off a container at some airport, and then speed off to the tit bar on your Hilo.
2dueces, that is what I thought, and that is what I paid for!! But, apparently that's not what’s happening. The postal inspection service doesn't even show that the items were shipped registered mail or insured. But Psa records show that they were. I don't think this has anything to do with the local post man or post office.
Since they were registered - perhaps they'll turn up somewhere - who knows - maybe they were sent to the wrong place or something?
Good luck - and I'm sorry to hear about this.
mike
Always send registered......THis is where they all have to sign........maybe certified also.
question: Can PSA put notes in thier computer for a alert if someone tries to register one of these stolen cards?
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
The thing that always had me a little bit worried about sending
"ANYTHING" worth a lot of money to be graded or authenticated through the mail is that the people that deliver the stuff , know where it is going , so they know what could possibly be inside .
There could be a litteral goldmine in there .
I'd never do it , If I can not do it in person, I'm just not doing it , I don't care what they say about insurance , or security or anything .
I feel bad for what happened to you and the other people's cards ,
Ultimately , will the others hold you responsible or do they understand what happened ?
As far as those POP 1's I guess it would take someone that does not know a lot about cards and grading to actually try to sell them without cracking them out of the cases .
Chances are that is highly unlikely but not impossible I suppose.
I have seen dumber things done .
<< <i>
4. How can they prove or not prove the value of the Billy Ripken "Strip cut out of bottom" F**K FACE card, if they didn't grade it because they didn't have an example?
>>
Good example
Sorry to hear about your cards.
I fear this happening to me as some of my cards are irreplacable.
Steve
and could easily say.. 2 for you 1 for me... I wish there was a more anonymous way to send this stuff..
like a bogus name.. tony smith.. po box 6180 etc
even with that.. people will know what it is...
this is an extremely scary story... and I have a 9 card sub at psa now worth a couple $1000
and I expected it to be handled with extreme care and diligence by all parties..
but now I am not sure that care is being shown...
I realize psa has a ton of volume.. but the fact that psa cannot show that this was sent registered
and the post office says it was not is disturbing as hell... I don't like that my package is just handed over
in bulk.. and hope the employee who receives it ensures it gets to the place it was supposed to go..
in the manor expected to get there
right there is psa's fault.. it is psa's responsibility to make sure this was insured and registered/ certified ( whatever)
and at that point it becomes the post office's baby.. and from what I understand it is damn near bullet proof process
but the limbo period where packages are just handed over??? that is a big problem
Brian
IF so how is the PO at fault here?
OH, I am also sorry this is happening to you.
Steve
The "good news" is this seems to be a very rare occurence so I don't think any of us have to start freaking out about our orders. I have 130 cards at PSA right now and I still very confident they will be returned... and returned with grades I won't like so I can start a thread about undergrading and I don't get the breaks the big submitters get.
Back to your problem... I would hire an attorney and I would start by going after PSA. If they can't prove they delivered it to the post office then PSA is on the hook. If PSA proves delivery to the post office then the post office is on the hook. I have no clue what the USPS insurance rules are but makes no sense that one would have to have receipts. I personally do not have receipts for most of my cards. Seriously, oh ya, here's a receipt from 7-11, from 1979, when I bought two packs of cards and a slurpee. That doesn't make any sense. Don't let this go. Fight PSA and then fight the post office.
List each low pop card on eBay with an outrageous reserve price and see what value the card ends at. Price woudl probably end a little lower than expected due to the lack of photo or scan. Not sure if that would help but it was the best I could come up with.
Not sure I'd do that.
Steve
but sometimes it might not be theft, could be an accident
Just this week a plane went down in Billings, Montana with over 2 tons of mail on board, all went up in flames, nothing to recuperate.
Good luck in finding your cards however, and hopefully PSA/USPS come through and help you out.
<< <i>I'm a lil confused are you saying that PSA can prove it mailed them and the Post office is at fault?
Steve >>
I have spoken to the local, regional, and federal levels of the USPS, but not one of them can find any records of the package being insured or scanned as a registered mail item. They say it was scanned as a priority mail item. However, PSA has provided me with a document showing that they were registered and insured. There is obviously something very fishy going on, because my local post office has like 6 people working on this nearly full time, including the p.o. manager, 2 supervisors, and the post master, who came to talk to me and let me know that he had one of the Regional (Business division) people investigating it. I also called the Newport Beach p.o. and talked to some kind of manager there, he told me that he was going to get the bottom of this, and that he would call me right back... He never called back!!
What is his phone #? I know its posted on these boards.
<< <i>Call Joe Orlando, maybe he can answer some questions.
What is his phone #? I know its posted on these boards. >>
I shouldn't have to call Joe Orlando, Joe Orlando should have to call me!!
I think I can answer this part of the question, as I went through the same thing but my package did show up 2 weeks
after it was shipped. For those that get the email stating the package has been shipped, PSA will provide you with 2 sets of numbers....
one for Registered, and the other is a delivery confirmation #. Due the weight, it's most likely going to go priority mail. What happened
to me was on the 9th or 10th business day, I started to get worried about my package so I decided to look up my two numbers.
For the registered #, it said there was NO RECORD of it which surprised and scared me a bit. So I check the other number, and it said
that the post office has been electronically notified to pick up this package. At which point, I called up PSA and the cust. service lady
said to give it 14 business days; but I asked her why wasn't the Registered # scanned since that to me is the more important number?
She couldn't give me an answer. As we talked a bit longer, we came to the conclusion that all packages that are done are picked up by
the post office and they'll scan the delivery confirmation #. My last 2 orders received have no records of the Registered # being scanned
while in transit. As a matter of fact, I don't even know if it's scanned once it reaches me , but I did have to remind my carrier to scan to the
red stripe as she forgot while she was asking me to ask for the box.
So for any of you guys getting email notification that your packages have been mailed.....do a simple test and punch in both numbers
given to you. I think you'll be very surprised.
Is that what happened here?
Steve
<< <i>I have spoken to the local, regional, and federal levels of the USPS, but not one of them can find any records of the package being insured or scanned as a registered mail item. They say it was scanned as a priority mail item. However, PSA has provided me with a document showing that they were registered and insured.
I think I can answer this part of the question, as I went through the same thing but my package did show up 2 weeks
after it was shipped. For those that get the email stating the package has been shipped, PSA will provide you with 2 sets of numbers....
one for Registered, and the other is a delivery confirmation #. Due the weight, it's most likely going to go priority mail. What happened
to me was on the 9th or 10th business day, I started to get worried about my package so I decided to look up my two numbers.
For the registered #, it said there was NO RECORD of it which surprised and scared me a bit. So I check the other number, and it said
that the post office has been electronically notified to pick up this package. At which point, I called up PSA and the cust. service lady
said to give it 14 business days; but I asked her why wasn't the Registered # scanned since that to me is the more important number?
She couldn't give me an answer. As we talked a bit longer, we came to the conclusion that all packages that are done are picked up by
the post office and they'll scan the delivery confirmation #. My last 2 orders received have no records of the Registered # being scanned
while in transit. As a matter of fact, I don't even know if it's scanned once it reaches me , but I did have to remind my carrier to scan to the
red stripe as she forgot while she was asking me to ask for the box.
So for any of you guys getting email notification that your packages have been mailed.....do a simple test and punch in both numbers
given to you. I think you'll be very surprised. >>
Thanks for the info, but I have been punching numbers for 25 days now. I had 2 orders ship out on that day, and Tuesday will make 3 weeks since I received 1 of the 2. I already received 2 other orders which were sent out a week later. I know that we may not have access to very much info on the internet, but from what I have learned about registered mail over the last month, registered mail is supposed to be so safe that they can practically tell the type of cologne a person was wearing that touched it last. But the U.S. Postal Inspection Service doesn't even know which State the item is in.
“Hello gentlemen, my name is xxxxx xxxx. I am from Michigan and also awaiting my package from PSA. It seems like are packages are lost and will not be returned. I have contacted PSA and asked them what type of compensation they will provide us for our missing packages. They respond by saying it is not their responsibility and we will not receive anything. My missing package includes 12 cards from my late father that I will never receive. I tried asking PSA for only vouchers for each of the cards that I submitted and they won't even offer that! I am very surprised this company is still in business the way they treat their customers. The person responsible name is Sandy Boyd. I urge you to email and call her. Maybe if we all offer our side of the story we will be able to receive compensation for our lost goods. I will give you the link to Sandy's email and phone number.”
“I agree. What bothers me is you insure the package for the cost if the cards ungraded or in mid grade. My problem is that I received 10s on several cards that are 1 of 1s. The insured value is 10 fold of what I listed.Think of it this way, I’m not insuring a package at a cost of 25.00 extra dollars (with all the packages I send) just in case I hit 10s.I lost near 1000.00 and will get back 100 if I can find a bill of sale.”
maybe psa can keep the insurance in house. the post office naturally wants to protect their interests by making things as difficult as possible with the insurance angle. psa sees the cards when they grade them so they are aware of what they would be insuring therefore there would be no need for bills of sale etc. it could potentially be a really nice revenue maker for them. they would still ship registered since it remains the safest way to go. they would probably make a bundle off of it and keep us customers happy and feeling secure. could be a good idea.
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That does not compute, for me.
USPS does pay valid claims to the full limits of the purchased insurance.
many times a letter of apprasial works too.
Steve
USPS does pay valid claims to the full limits of the purchased insurance."
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I think that's all well and good for an item or items that are easily replaced , but what happens when it is a particularly rare item and something you weren't planning on selling for any price but you had to put an insurance price on just because you had to ship it through the mail ?
I really feel bad and wish there were something I could do .
<< <i>You might want to ask your homeowners or renters insurance
company if there is any coverage for items lost in this manner.
(Don't take the first "no" as the final answer.) >>
-Agreed, i believe most home owners insurance providers have some sort of "heirloom clause"
<< <i>What Storm said.
many times a letter of apprasial works too.
Steve >>
Steve, are you saying to get your cards appraised before you submit them? Or are you saying to get an appraisal for them after they come up missing? If the second, how could someone even issue an appraisal (with any weight behind it), without ever seeing the item in person? I may be wrong, but it seems like the population reports and set registries are really want ends up determining a cards current value, so how would someone value a 1 of 1 or a card such as the saw-cut version of the Billy Ripken that I sent in. No matter how nice somebody thinks there 1984 Donruss Mattingly is, I can't imagine that will pay will the money to have it insured for $405.00actually paying I can't imagine that when someone sends in a raw 1984 Donruss Mattingly, or $256.00 for a 84 Donruss Doug Frobel. Who is going to send in a raw Rickey Henderson rookie and pay to have it insured for $4,467.60? I know that Psa's response to that would be that when you see your grades pop, you have the option of calling us to have the insurance increased, but how many people actually know that?? But then, they totally contradict that by saying ”The USPS Claims will only pay the amount of insurance purchased if proof is provided and not over that amount due to grades given." The only solution that I can think of is for Psa to set up some kind of system where people will determine, and then pay, for the insurance after their grades have popped, and not when they are filling out there submission forms while they are sitting on their bed’s watching a sports game.
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As noted, that "system" is already in place. The problem seems to
be that folks do not know how to implement the fix.
A prominent NOTICE at the top of the poppage would help.
A prominent NOTICE on the sub-forms would help.
JO needs to be tipped-off to the current situation and he needs to help make sure
that ALL members know that they can upinsure AFTER poppage.
As to the "heirloom I never plan to sell," issue: That is not something that
the business world needs to concern itself with. OWNERS of merch are free
to value/insure items at a rate that is supported by the market stats, or
by professional appraisal.
MANY folks under-declare values on the sub forms in order to "save money"
on both S/H/I and grading-fees. That is the doing of those folks; PSA is not
responsible for that.
I looked at both my HO insurance and CIA policy. BOTH provide insurance
coverage for "items in transit." The USPS can ONLY be expected to pay to
the limits that were purchased.
Stuff gets lost in the mail. Insuring for "full replacement values" is the way
to mitigate the tangible losses. I am not seeing that PSA did anything wrong
here; insurance placement and item-valuing is the job of the merch owner.
Also, it is always possible that the subject "lost" items will surface, eventually.
<< <i>"...The only solution that I can think of is for Psa to set up some kind of system where people will determine, and then pay, for the insurance after their grades have popped, and not when they are filling out there submission forms while they are sitting on their bed?s watching a sports game..."
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As noted, that "system" is already in place. The problem seems to
be that folks do not know how to implement the fix.
A prominent NOTICE at the top of the poppage would help.
A prominent NOTICE on the sub-forms would help.
JO needs to be tipped-off to the current situation and he needs to help make sure
that ALL members know that they can upinsure AFTER poppage.
As to the "heirloom I never plan to sell," issue: That is not something that
the business world needs to concern itself with. OWNERS of merch are free
to value/insure items at a rate that is supported by the market stats, or
by professional appraisal.
MANY folks under-declare values on the sub forms in order to "save money"
on both S/H/I and grading-fees. That is the doing of those folks; PSA is not
responsible for that.
I looked at both my HO insurance and CIA policy. BOTH provide insurance
coverage for "items in transit." The USPS can ONLY be expected to pay to
the limits that were purchased.
Stuff gets lost in the mail. Insuring for "full replacement values" is the way
to mitigate the tangible losses. I am not seeing that PSA did anything wrong
here; insurance placement and item-valuing is the job of the merch owner.
Also, it is always possible that the subject "lost" items will surface, eventually
. >>
So in othe words.... The smart thing to do is always choose the lowest possible option when filling out your submission form , and then just bump it up after the grades pop?
Yes I meant that the USPS will take an appraisel from a dealer on his letter head.
Lets say I insure a card for 400.00 and I have no bill of sale.
A dealer could write on his letterhead the value of said item.
Steve
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There is some merit to that scheme.
BUT, I completely agree that JO needs to make SURE that
everybody knows they can bump the number post poppage.
It might even be worthwhile for PSA to build a screen that
forces folks to accept/decline an increase in coverage, PRIOR
to the cards being shipped. This would ONLY need to be done
until such time as EVERYBODY became aware that upinsure
was possible. (I suspect MANY folks do not currently know.)
at the price I thought they would be worth post graded. So in my case I covered myself coming and going.
Steve
1. PSA - not responsible on the way in - never was in possession of item.
2. PSA - responsible on the way out - last to have possession.
mike
<< <i>I never said that Psa was at fault for these packages being lost or stolen, but holding Psa responsible may end up being our only option by default. Because the way that I see this potentially playing out is.. The post office saying "Sir, there is nothing we can do for you, because we are only liable to the person or company who paid for the insurance, as they are the customer, not you" and "Psa says "We are not responsible for items that are lost or stolen while not in our possession" I can also see the home owners insurance saying the same type of thing like " Sir, the person who purchased the insurance will have to file a claim with their insurance company, and then they will transfer the compensations to you" The example Psa gave me was something like "You can't insure a piece of jewelry for $4000.00 that is really only worth $2000.00, and expect to get $4000.00 if the item is lost or stolen" It just doesn't add up to me. >>
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IF PSA insured the item for the valuation set by the customer,
the USPS will pay the claim, up to that value.
If their is a bailment when PSA accepts submissions, it likely ends when
PSA gives the merch to the USPS. Absent some showing of gross-negligence,
PSA has ZERO liability in the shipping phase. (If PSA failed to insure an item
that the customer had paid to have insured, obviously PSA would have
some liability. That appears not to be the case, here.)
The HO and CIA claim would be filed by the policy holder. NOT by PSA. If covered
under the policy, the claim would be paid.
As winpitcher noted, values can be established post-loss by an expert's written opinion.
The USPS seems to be the ONLY culprit here. And, they still may be able to redeem
their position by finding the lost stuff.
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Sadly, once PSA does the handoff, their responsibility ends. An exception
would be if the item was USPS-insured, got damaged in transit, and the
USPS refused to pay the claim based on "substandard/poor packaging."
In such event, PSA could be alleged liable.
It is easy to confuse this kind of deal with an EBAY/PayPal circumstance.
We all know that the seller is obligated to get items to the buyer. THAT
has to do with PP, and not with UCC. The Code is pretty clear that once
PSA gives an item to USPS, any "problems" are likely deemed to be
between the merch-owner and the carrier.
If I am understanding the instant circumstance, the real issue is that the
lost items were NOT insured for their full/true value. PSA has no liability
there, UNLESS they failed to follow the customer's instructions regarding
insurance placement.
I still say there is better than a 50/50 chance that the lost stuff will be found.
<< <i>Storm, do you work for the post office or psa? >>
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Neither.