As strange as this sounds, has the red hot market activity contributed to the decline in "numis
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I was taking a look at the Harvey Stack Remembers article on the Stack's website. These articles are typically pretty good. I will put in bold the relevant part of the article for this thread, and I have a few questions:
(1) As strange as this sounds, has the red hot market actually contributed to a decline in numismatics, as Mr. Stack implies? I think it actually might have?
(2) Do we, as consumers, have an obligation to demand that our dealers are not just merchants, but rather numismatists with some knowledge? When Longacre goes to buy an expensive Italian suit, he expects Lucio the tailor to be an expert in his field and knowledgable of the latest trends with his creation, and not some college kid who typically dresses in jeans and sneakers.
(3) Do you know any brick and mortar dealer today who has a numismatic library in their shop, other than just a Redbook?
Here is the article:
Years Do Fly By
Thursday, May 8, 2008
As June 2008 approaches I realize that I will be beginning my 61st year as a full-time professional numismatist, from day one at Stack's.
Actually I have been engaged in numismatics for a longer period, but after I left college I became involved on a full-time basis. Prior to that, my college days before 1947, I worked on demand. The demand came from Morton Stack (my father) and Joseph B. Stack (my uncle). Each treated his sons in a similar manner. If we were away from elementary school, high school or college, we heard at home, "If there is no school, we need you at the office and store". Ben and Norman, Joseph's sons, and I responded to the call and became the early indentured help of Stack's. Needless to say, the constant handling of coins, sorting, grading, enveloping, buying and selling was the best experience a budding numismatist could have.
The collectors and dealers I met all were teachers for me. I learned about varieties from the Dr. Willliam H. Sheldon, M.H. Bolender, F.C.C. Boyd, Harold Bareford, Martin Kortjohn, Wayte Raymond, J.F. Bell, the budding genius of John J. Ford, Jr., John J. Pittman, Hans M. F. Schulman, James Risk, and dozens and dozens more who were active in the 1940s and 1950s. Many visited our store, which often had a fraternal or clubhouse atmosphere of good times and conviviality. Other times we met at conventions nationwide.
Unfortunately the type of coin facility that was developed by Stack's, with a store front location on an important street in a large city, with sit-down counters, with a library for collector reference, with highly educated and trained salespeople to provide information for the public to learn more about coins, has not been further nurtured by other dealers in the field. In recent times, the personal element and the desire to learn about coins and enjoy other "coin people" has been lost in the activity of the marketplace. There are some exceptions, however, in specialized fields-such as colonial coins, medals, and others in which a high degree of knowledge is needed. Otherwise, it is fading away. Many dealers today are merchants first and foremost, with numismatic appreciation being only of secondary importance.
It seems to me that it is time, actually long overdue, that true numismatics gets more exposure at conventions, shows, seminars, and magazine and newspapers, and encourages more one-on-one expansion as was done in yesteryear.
In June I am happy to report I will also reach four score (80) years . I sincerely believe that numismatics, collectors and coins, along with the pleasure I have in reviewing the development of the hobby has kept me active and young. I wish all my friends will continue to have good health and enjoyment.
I look forward to meeting and greeting you whenever you visit us in our offices in New York.
(1) As strange as this sounds, has the red hot market actually contributed to a decline in numismatics, as Mr. Stack implies? I think it actually might have?
(2) Do we, as consumers, have an obligation to demand that our dealers are not just merchants, but rather numismatists with some knowledge? When Longacre goes to buy an expensive Italian suit, he expects Lucio the tailor to be an expert in his field and knowledgable of the latest trends with his creation, and not some college kid who typically dresses in jeans and sneakers.
(3) Do you know any brick and mortar dealer today who has a numismatic library in their shop, other than just a Redbook?
Here is the article:
Years Do Fly By
Thursday, May 8, 2008
As June 2008 approaches I realize that I will be beginning my 61st year as a full-time professional numismatist, from day one at Stack's.
Actually I have been engaged in numismatics for a longer period, but after I left college I became involved on a full-time basis. Prior to that, my college days before 1947, I worked on demand. The demand came from Morton Stack (my father) and Joseph B. Stack (my uncle). Each treated his sons in a similar manner. If we were away from elementary school, high school or college, we heard at home, "If there is no school, we need you at the office and store". Ben and Norman, Joseph's sons, and I responded to the call and became the early indentured help of Stack's. Needless to say, the constant handling of coins, sorting, grading, enveloping, buying and selling was the best experience a budding numismatist could have.
The collectors and dealers I met all were teachers for me. I learned about varieties from the Dr. Willliam H. Sheldon, M.H. Bolender, F.C.C. Boyd, Harold Bareford, Martin Kortjohn, Wayte Raymond, J.F. Bell, the budding genius of John J. Ford, Jr., John J. Pittman, Hans M. F. Schulman, James Risk, and dozens and dozens more who were active in the 1940s and 1950s. Many visited our store, which often had a fraternal or clubhouse atmosphere of good times and conviviality. Other times we met at conventions nationwide.
Unfortunately the type of coin facility that was developed by Stack's, with a store front location on an important street in a large city, with sit-down counters, with a library for collector reference, with highly educated and trained salespeople to provide information for the public to learn more about coins, has not been further nurtured by other dealers in the field. In recent times, the personal element and the desire to learn about coins and enjoy other "coin people" has been lost in the activity of the marketplace. There are some exceptions, however, in specialized fields-such as colonial coins, medals, and others in which a high degree of knowledge is needed. Otherwise, it is fading away. Many dealers today are merchants first and foremost, with numismatic appreciation being only of secondary importance.
It seems to me that it is time, actually long overdue, that true numismatics gets more exposure at conventions, shows, seminars, and magazine and newspapers, and encourages more one-on-one expansion as was done in yesteryear.
In June I am happy to report I will also reach four score (80) years . I sincerely believe that numismatics, collectors and coins, along with the pleasure I have in reviewing the development of the hobby has kept me active and young. I wish all my friends will continue to have good health and enjoyment.
I look forward to meeting and greeting you whenever you visit us in our offices in New York.
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
Numismatic scholarship is not the goal of most dealer libraries. One local dealer probably stated it best when he said, "The only books I want are those that will make me money."
He did not try to show off, he did that by not only knowing the answer but knowing exactly where all of his references to that answer were.
BTW it was about a specific counterfeit issue.
Today, if you're a dealer, you have to compete against eBay and all the customers who come to you clutching copies of the Grey Sheet, whereas fourty years ago, the best a collector could do, probably, was a copy of the Red Book. If you gave a customer a price 10% lower than the Red Book, he probably thought he had gotten a bargain.
Could QDB build his business today with the same premium-pricing business model he used 40 years ago?
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
instead of filling out Whitman after Whitman folder which was more the norm 40 years ago.Few dealers can master every series. The ramblings of a novice aside I feel that the perfect storm has happened and our hobby has goon BIG business the way the art world has and lost the accessibility to the common man (not counting modern crap akin to aka boardwalk paintings) and is evolving not declining. I find that most dealers know what they know and that most often means they know less about the two seers I specialize in (peace/trade dollars) but have a more encompassing knowledge of the market and coins as a whole. As it is impossible to know every artist so they do a corner of the market.
DaveG makes a good point. Times change, and there is no changing time.
Fortunately we have this 24/7 forum, always a convivial and most respectful venue
Anyway, in my experience, Liberty Coin is staffed with friendly, knowledgeable and honorable folks. I avoided a host of sophomoric mistakes thanks to Liberty.
Edited to add that not only would they refer to an extensive library to assist in attributions, on several occasions, the scope came out when authenticity was in question. And, to top it off, when some of my coins were stolen a few yrs ago, they recognized one of them and called me to tip me off! I got most if not all of them back.
The more we try to cling to the the past, present, or even the future the greater are these long strides when they come.
<< <i>Though I now live 80 miles away, until a yr or so ago, I would stop by Liberty Coin in Lansing, MI with questions about coins, often eBay newps. Paul, Alan and the rest have always been very generous with both time and knowledge. It probably helped that they do not focus their retail on early US silver so my ebay newps were not cutting in to their sales. I made a point to purchase coins from them in gratitude and would not haggle price. I also refer friends to them as well.
Anyway, in my experience, Liberty Coin is staffed with friendly, knowledgeable and honorable folks. I avoided a host of sophomoric mistakes thanks to Liberty.
Edited to add that not only would they refer to an extensive library to assist in attributions, on several occasions, the scope came out when authenticity was in question. And, to top it off, when some of my coins were stolen a few yrs ago, they recognized one of them and called me to tip me off! I got most if not all of them back. >>
Liberty Coin is a good coin store.
They have rolls of lower grade Seated coins in all denominations in the back that they aquired over the years.
I cherried some rare varities very cheap out of them.
I also got an 1873 no arrows closed 3 Seated Quarter in VF for just $75 from patrick heller, the owner, a few years ago.
I sold them a little over $2000 face in junk silver about 4 years ago. That was a big mistake, but then I didn't know that the price of silver was going to go through the roof.
Ray
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.