Unbelievable half cent error in upcoming Heritage auction

seanq · May 21, 2008 2:15AM

30% Off-center 1795 half cent on a 25% clipped planchet

.. and when I say "unbelievable," I mean that literally. I know it's certified, but this looks for all the world like a custom-ordered Gallery Mint error rather than a real Mint product. Any early copper fanatics have some background on the piece or an opinion on the authenticity?

Edited to add: I looked around and it doesn't look like GMM made a 1795 half cent reproduction, so it's not like someone snuck one of their pieces past NCS.

Sean Reynolds

Broadstruck · May 21, 2008 2:18AM

I saw that on the cover of the Auction Catalog and went to find it... "unbelievable" is right!

millennium · May 21, 2008 2:22AM

That has to be a one of a kind item??? I have never seen or heard of that on an early cent. Neato!

STONE · May 21, 2008 2:38AM

That really is unbelievable. Any preditions as to final price? $80k, $100k, MORE!!!

I'm sure this coin has seen and will continue to see a limited number of owners.

19Lyds · May 21, 2008 2:40AM

Huh??

How were planchets created in the 1700's and weren't they hand fed into the coining presses?

Could somebody please explain how something like this could have occured.

Doogy · May 21, 2008 2:57AM

very, very, very cool!

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 21, 2008 3:42AM

<< Huh??

How were planchets created in the 1700's and weren't they hand fed into the coining presses?

>>

That probably explains why none of the design overlapped the clip.

Shamika · May 21, 2008 3:45AM

<< Huh??

How were planchets created in the 1700's and weren't they hand fed into the coining presses?

Could somebody please explain how something like this could have occured. >>

The same question came to me as well. I can imagine the off-center strike, but the large clip seems odd.

Regulated · May 21, 2008 3:52AM

The planchets were not inserted by hand into the coining presses in 1795 - mint records refer to three coining presses "with the improvement of supplying and discharging themselves by machinery."

It looks to me as if whatever fed the coins into the press was unable to feed this piece in all the way because of the large clip, which would be why the visible design does not overlap the clip.

MrEureka · May 21, 2008 4:02AM

It looks to me as if whatever fed the coins into the press was unable to feed this piece in all the way because of the large clip, which would be why the visible design does not overlap the clip.

If a single "finger" caught the planchet almost at the center of the clip and then pushed the coin onto the lower die, this coin is exactly what would have happened.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 21, 2008 4:07AM

6 figures

MrEureka · May 21, 2008 4:10AM

6 figures

Place a bid and you will be very pleasantly surprised. The coin might not even reach five figures.

Broadstruck · May 21, 2008 5:06AM

<< 6 figures >>

Maybe in Gem BU RB w/o being scratched and corroded?

seanq, what are your thought's on the clip on this planchet

Dennis88 · May 21, 2008 5:57AM

A very cool and unique item that is

As for the guessing price, let's get a few things clear:

Positive for the price:

-Major Mint Error
-18th Century
-Unique
-Excellent coin for research on 18th century minting practices

Negative for the price:

-Unpopular denomination (Half Cents are not collected much)
-Circulated
-Scratched/Corroded

If this were an half dollar, the piece would have been all over the (coin) press. For an half cent well... I have no idea for the value of this coin in the current market place, although I tend to agree with Andy...

Dennis

JRocco · May 21, 2008 5:58AM

WOW.
This one would be great to inspect in hand.

CaptHenway · May 21, 2008 6:29AM

What? No brockage???????

seanq · May 21, 2008 6:37AM

<< 
seanq, what are your thought's on the clip on this planchet

>>

I guess it's good, I'll defer to NCS/NGC on it ,not having seen the coin in hand. I don't know a lot about 18th century coin manufacturing practices, but MrEureka's explanation for how it could have been struck makes sense to me. I do know that 1795 is a relatively common date for clipped planchets on cents. I'll try to find my copy of the Michael Arconti auction catalog, he had a vast collection of large cent errors, maybe there's something akin to this in there.

As for price, I would think high four figures easy, maybe low five figures up to about $15,000. To really get a big number at auction they'll need two bidders chasing this, and I'm not sure there's even one collector of major half cent or 18th century type errors around.

Sean Reynolds

STONE · May 21, 2008 6:41AM

<< As for price, I would think high four figures easy, maybe low five figures up to about $15,000. To really get a big number at auction they'll need two bidders chasing this, and I'm not sure there's even one collector of major half cent or 18th century type errors around. >>

I don't see why you need two bidders that meet those specifications.

All I think you'd need are 2 or more bidders who feel that this is truly a special coin and bid for the aesthetic purpose.
If I had the money I would go for this coin.

errormaven · May 21, 2008 6:55AM

While I can't comment on its authenticity, I'm a bit concerned by the very sharp "corners" and razor sharp edge of the clip. Given how heavily worn the coin is, I would have expected the corners to be more rounded and the edge of the clip to be rounded as well.

As far as the struck area is concerned, I don't know how you go about authenticating ANY coin as worn and corroded as this. Any die markers and any tool marks will be long gone. If I were the buyer, I'd ask NCS exactly how they established authenticity.

While I haven't found any faked errors in NCS slabs, I have found faked errors in all the other top-tier and second-tier services. Not many, but enough to undermine any blind confidence I might have had. Some were embarassingly obvious. I've fallen for a few clever fakes myself over the years, but each one was a learning experience.

astrorat · May 21, 2008 7:46AM

<< As for price, I would think high four figures easy, maybe low five figures up to about $15,000. To really get a big number at auction they'll need two bidders chasing this, and I'm not sure there's even one collector of major half cent or 18th century type errors around.
>>

Actually, I know of two such collectors and have handled their early copper errors while I was with the ANA. One, however, may no longer be looking for half-cent errors based on some recent collecting activities.

And to add in advance...sorry, but it is not appropriate for me to reveal their names.

It will be interesting to see what this brings. And yeah, Sean, it sure does look like a "handled and aged" GMM error, but I would also defer to NGC/NCS.

Lane

notwilight · May 21, 2008 8:35AM

I don't find it nearly as exciting or predict nearly as high a price as most of you. I think it's mighty cool. I don't think it is an error. I think it is a test piece. Remember minting these by hand was basicly a one man show. My guess is the guy wanted to check something out, grabbed a scrap clipped planchet, and hand placed it off center to avoid the clip, and screwed it down. This piece then likely kicked around the mint then until someone brought it home. The reason I think it will go for less is that error guys discount the early days. By modern standards almost all 18th century coinage would be some sort of error.

--Jerry

Aegis3 · May 21, 2008 8:48AM

It sold for $6,900 in March 2006 when Heritage last auctioned it off. I really don't see it exceeding a low five-figure amount, if even that.

CaptHenway · May 21, 2008 10:49AM

I don't see anything wrong with it, as far as authenticity is concerned.
TD

Pistareen · May 21, 2008 12:01PM

Looks:

real
cool
unsurprising for this year and denomination among all years and denominations

I'd wager that more wild striking errors were produced in 1795 than any other year on an errors per 100 normal coins struck basis. Something tells me that was the year they started playing with feeder fingers in a new way.

Half cent errors were rarely worried about -- the coin cost too little, and the expense was too great, to worry about melting down the misstrikes and redoing the whole process. So a lot of them escaped. Needless to say, planchet stock was at a premium, since they were buying Talbot, Allum, and Lee tokens by the ton and trimming them for planchets. Why should a little clip slow them down? Or a big one? It wasn't specie, so while it was supposed to weigh a certain amount, it didn't break anyone's heart if it didn't meet standards.

This double error is, of course, eye-catching and unusual -- it's a very cool thing.

commoncents123 · May 21, 2008 12:12PM

I find it odd that that coin was widely circulated in that condition.

Torrero · May 21, 2008 10:12PM

Interesting. I'm not a collector of error coinage, but it sure seems like such an early error would be worth more in the marketplace.

Jay

TwoSides2aCoin · May 21, 2008 10:23PM

<< It sold for $6,900 in March 2006 when Heritage last auctioned it off. I really don't see it exceeding a low five-figure amount, if even that. >>

$9999.99<---- 6 figures

Andy, it's still way out of my budget. Oh, and I LOVE these type of errors.

Unbelievable half cent error in upcoming Heritage auction

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