Interesting Message eBay will send out to bidders when they win an auction

braddick · May 14, 2008 2:47AM

eBay will send a message to buyers letting them know there is no risk of receiving negative feedback from the seller.

Placid · May 14, 2008 2:49AM

Interesting.

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 2:57AM

I am a 100% bbuyer on ebay and for the life of me I can NOT understand the logic of this new policy.

I have read many dicussions on here and I still say that is stupid. Like I mentioned, I am a buyer..........if I do not PAY you, the seller, in the manner agreed and in the time........I should not get a negative?..Ofr course I should get a NEG! Any other thinking I don't believe I could ever understand.

Bobk · May 14, 2008 3:01AM

bob

FLBuffaloHunter · May 14, 2008 3:03AM

They will also require a buyer to check off several boxes on a interstitial web page regarding the transaction designed to encourage communication with the seller prior to leaving negative feedback.

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 3:05AM

I must be very dumb or maybe to simple is better.

I didn't think the old policy was wrong...............what was the problem?

Maybe I AM DUMB

FLBuffaloHunter · May 14, 2008 3:10AM

<< I must be very dumb or maybe to simple is better.

I didn't think the old policy was wrong...............what was the problem?

Maybe I AM DUMB >>

EBay data showed sellers were using the fear of a retalitory negative as a way to extort a positive or less than factual feedback from buyers. This also resulted in many buyers leaving the site since they felt it could not be trusted.

ArizonaJack · May 14, 2008 3:12AM

The more I think about this, the more I welcome the change. All it will do is weed out the shysters, the good guys may take a few on the chin and the days of 99.9 and 100% MAY change, but the roll stuffers, cleaners, crackout artists, self slabbers, etc will soon be taking some well deserved lumps.

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 3:14AM

<< 

<< I must be very dumb or maybe to simple is better.

I didn't think the old policy was wrong...............what was the problem?

Maybe I AM DUMB >>

EBay data showed sellers were using the fear of a retalitory negative as a way to extort a positive or less than factual feedback from buyers. This also resulted in many buyers leaving the site since they felt it could not be trusted. >>

I guess I can understand that. Never experienced such a thing myself so maybe i do not have a good point of reference.

That being said..........as a buyer........if I don't meet the agreed auction details on my part...i sure as HELL should get a NEG.

A buyer should be paid, in the time stated and the manner agreed....................not real hard for me to understand and certainly not hard to accept.

Bochiman · May 14, 2008 3:18AM

<< The more I think about this, the more I welcome the change. All it will do is weed out the shysters, the good guys may take a few on the chin and the days of 99.9 and 100% MAY change, but the roll stuffers, cleaners, crackout artists, self slabbers, etc will soon be taking some well deserved lumps. >>

I think I may be some "self-slab" stuff up there....I like how the slab protects the coin

Of course, if I do, my stuff will be "openable", "non-graded", and state both....

Then again, doing so, no matter how open/honest w/ return policy, I am likely to get some nutjob who will ding me for it.....

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 3:22AM

I hope my comments haven't been out of order. I am not a seller so maybe I totally missunderstand.

I was just looking at the change in what I, thought was a logical and practical...............and real manner

Russ · May 14, 2008 3:23AM

<< All it will do is weed out the shysters, the good guys may take a few on the chin and the days of 99.9 and 100% MAY change, but the roll stuffers, cleaners, crackout artists, self slabbers, etc will soon be taking some well deserved lumps. >>

Bingo! Sellers who've been practicing retaliation to force mutual withdrawals are in big trouble.

Russ, NCNE

Jcarney · May 14, 2008 3:25AM

I doubt that 99-100% feedback ratings will be the gold standard for Ebay sellers anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see most seller's average feedback score drop to the low to mid 90s.

Russ · May 14, 2008 3:27AM

<< I hope my comments haven't been out of order. I am not a seller so maybe I totally missunderstand. >>

As a seller, here's my perspective. I have 99.9% positive feedback, and I EARNED it. I've never done a mutual withdrawal. There's another seller in the coin category who shows 100% feedback ONLY because he retaliates and makes nasty threats and has forced 60 mutual withdrawals. With this change, his feedback will finally begin to reflect reality.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · May 14, 2008 3:28AM

<< I doubt that 99-100% feedback ratings will be the gold standard for Ebay sellers anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see most seller's average feedback score drop to the low to mid 90s. >>

The good sellers will stay in the high 90's, the crap sellers will drop to low 90's and under.

Russ, NCNE

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 3:32AM

<< 

<< I hope my comments haven't been out of order. I am not a seller so maybe I totally missunderstand. >>

As a seller, here's my perspective. I have 99.9% positive feedback, and I EARNED it. I've never done a mutual withdrawal. There's another seller in the coin category who shows 100% feedback ONLY because he retaliates and makes nasty threats and has forced 60 mutual withdrawals. With this change, his feedback will finally begin to reflect reality.

Russ, NCNE >>

Thanks for understanding that I probably don't understand.

It just seemed to me to take away a "right" a seller should have. I have never left a negative but on 2 ocassions have agreed witht he seller we would not leave any feedback. If the sellers had not accepted that i would have left a postive..............just not a glowing one.

ziggy29 · May 14, 2008 3:38AM

<< The more I think about this, the more I welcome the change. All it will do is weed out the shysters, the good guys may take a few on the chin and the days of 99.9 and 100% MAY change, but the roll stuffers, cleaners, crackout artists, self slabbers, etc will soon be taking some well deserved lumps. >>

Same here. At first I thought it was unfair to the good sellers who get slimed by bad buyers. And in some ways it is. But I also tend to think that while the good sellers may fall from 99.9% to 98%, the gap between them and the bad sellers will look larger than ever.

In that sense, it might actually be a long-term positive for the good sellers. It may just take some time to readjust their perception of what is "acceptable" feedback. People who normally wouldn't buy from someone below 99.5% may have to rethink that and adjust it down a bit.

2manycoins2fewfunds · May 14, 2008 3:42AM

Yes it will help to expose some of the bad sellers but it will also encourage any buyer with even the slightest knee jerk gripe to trash a seller.

I have over 6,000 feedback and 3 negs on items that total $40. All were knee jerk left by rookie buyers. No attempt to contact me to let me know there was any problem.

I think it is the worst idea Ebay has ever come up with............

Dabigkahuna · May 14, 2008 3:43AM

The logic follows...

If it's not broken, Fix it!

JoeLewis · May 14, 2008 3:46AM

Why doesn't eBay just have both parties leave feedback blindly. In other words, you can't see the feedback you recieved until you've left feedback for the other party. That way nobody can use threats. Would this work?

EricSan · May 14, 2008 3:49AM

<< Why doesn't eBay just have both parties leave feedback blindly. In other words, you can't see the feedback you recieved until you've left feedback for the other party. That way nobody can use threats. Would this work? >>

That is one of the ideas that e-bay had proposed a short while ago - I would like to know why they didn't implement it.

Eric

fc · May 14, 2008 3:50AM

it really does not bother me due to the fact as a seller i leave
feedback as soon as i have the payment...

i risk whatever i deserve in the transaction based upon how i uphold
my end of the bargain. it has always worked out...

OKbustchaser · May 14, 2008 3:51AM

<< 

Bingo! Sellers who've been practicing retaliation to force mutual withdrawals are in big trouble.

Russ, NCNE >>

And buyers who practice retaliation in order to extort a better deal after the auction now get a free ride.

List me as another buyer only who simply thinks it's rediculous. (Just like many of the other recent changes Ebay has made for the "protection" of the buyer.

BECOKA · May 14, 2008 3:53AM

I think it is a good change because as a buyer I want to see what people really think of sellers. I have a 100% as a seller and can afford to take a hit or two but for the most part I try my best to make the buying experience good so I don't expect to take many hits.

The only fault in this is that as a seller I would like to see if they buyers have any issues. My first statement above trumps this one though as I have never really had any problem buyers. The only troubled buyers tend to be the ones that leave e-bay right after winning but they don't pay, I don't ship and I don't really lose anything.

CarlWohlforth · May 14, 2008 3:54AM

I'm hoping this will help. At first I felt I was giving up something - I guess I am - but I gave very, very few negatives and those folks were all NARU's for various reasons.

If buyers feel more comfortable and bid more that will be good. If bad sellers who deserve negs but weren't getting them due to fear of retalitory negs now get exposed that will be good.

Russ · May 14, 2008 3:55AM

<< And buyers who practice retaliation in order to extort a better deal after the auction now get a free ride. >>

If that actually ever happens, I'll worry about it then.

Russ, NCNE

ziggy29 · May 14, 2008 3:57AM

<< Yes it will help to expose some of the bad sellers but it will also encourage any buyer with even the slightest knee jerk gripe to trash a seller.

I have over 6,000 feedback and 3 negs on items that total $40. All were knee jerk left by rookie buyers. No attempt to contact me to let me know there was any problem. >>

Yes, but let's just say for sake of argument that 2% of buyers out there are unethical and are looking to slime a good seller.

In such a case, one might expect top sellers to have a 98% rating. Yeah, the slimy bidders will take them down from (say) 99.9% to 98%, but the bad ones will be taken down a lot more and the good ones will stand out more.

Amigo · May 14, 2008 4:00AM

I see both sides of the coin. On the whole, it probably is a good change.

However, I'm not going to list anything for a while till I see how it pans out. I too, have earned my 100%. It's sickening though how most negs are left by scumbags over a $10 item. I have a couple dozen things to sell but just ran out of time.

On the other hand, I will be buying, and I will be leaving honest feedback. If you treat me right, positive, if you over charge on shipping or mislead me in anyway, I'm gonna give you the biggest fricken negative I can because I have a LOT of built up Anger from being held hostage all these years. Once I neg you, you're going on my blocked list.

doh · May 14, 2008 4:08AM

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 4:21AM

On the other hand, I will be buying, and I will be leaving honest feedback. If you treat me right, positive, if you over charge on shipping

How does anyone get over charged for shipping?

This is an real question.

If the auction does not say shipping costs, don't you ask before you bid? Isn't that a normal thing to do?

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative but that complaint went over my head.

Russ · May 14, 2008 4:26AM

This is the message that appears if a buyer wants to leave a negative or a neutral:

And, unlike the first message which is a popup with an option to click "never show me this again", (which most will do), this one comes up every time and will never go away.

Russ, NCNE

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 4:27AM

Now I like that a lot Russ.

See even I can learn

19Lyds · May 14, 2008 4:29AM

When does this pop up?

I just bought something and paid and nothing popped up.

I even went to feedback and nothing popped up.

PerryHall · May 14, 2008 4:29AM

<< The logic follows...

If it's not broken, Fix it! >>

Do you really think the eBay feedback system was not broken?

ebaytrader · May 14, 2008 4:29AM

<< On the other hand, I will be buying, and I will be leaving honest feedback. If you treat me right, positive, if you over charge on shipping

How does anyone get over charged for shipping?

This is an real question.

If the auction does not say shipping costs, don't you ask before you bid? Isn't that a normal thing to do?

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative but that complaint went over my head. >>

We often sell multiple items to 1 buyer. Most think you're overcharging when, if fact, we often ship at a loss of multiples.

I just received a question a few minutes ago asking if I would cut the shipping below actual cost. This from a seller with a shipping DSR of 4.4 on over 400 sales.

I recently had a guy object to an invoice and offer to pay $4.50 for shipping multiple items. Actual postage was $12.90. He was invoiced for $10. He is predominately a seller.

ziggy29 · May 14, 2008 4:33AM

<< This is the message that appears if a buyer wants to leave a negative or a neutral:

>>

Does that mean that the seller can get it removed if there *are* personal remarks? If the buyer has to certify that there aren't any - but they lied - is that grounds for removal?

Russ · May 14, 2008 4:34AM

ebaytrader,

You go from 99.5% to 100% on Monday.

Russ, NCNE

AlixTCat · May 14, 2008 4:35AM

<< Why doesn't eBay just have both parties leave feedback blindly. In other words, you can't see the feedback you recieved until you've left feedback for the other party. That way nobody can use threats. Would this work? >>

That would be too logical.

Jonathan

Russ · May 14, 2008 4:38AM

<< Does that mean that the seller can get it removed if there *are* personal remarks? If the buyer has to certify that there aren't any - but they lied - is that grounds for removal? >>

The same criteria for removal applies after the change as applies now, so a bidder can still do anything they want short of posting personal information, vulgarity, or links. eBay isn't going to try and police whether or not a bidder was dishonest when they checked the boxes.

Russ, NCNE

Coxe · May 14, 2008 4:40AM

I think if eBay chooses to go down this path permanently, they are going to have to add an administrative feedback vehicle. If a buyer fails to pay according to the stated terms (or similar dispute), the seller makes his claim and eBay admin enters an associated negative when confirmed by the evidence.

Boom · May 14, 2008 4:41AM

We shall see, now won't we!

I agree that this will weed out bad sellers that use fear of retaliatory negatives when selling bad merchandise -

I also see where buyers with Malice at heart will now be given free shots at defenseless good sellers.

Even if a seller is straight up, inevitably certain buyers with agenda are going to come forward knowing the

seller has no recourse.

The system, as is currently, in essence is useless/ little more than mutual patronization BUT

what is proposed and in place is a recipe for disaster. JMHO.

newbiecollector · May 14, 2008 4:41AM

<< 

<< On the other hand, I will be buying, and I will be leaving honest feedback. If you treat me right, positive, if you over charge on shipping

How does anyone get over charged for shipping?

This is an real question.

If the auction does not say shipping costs, don't you ask before you bid? Isn't that a normal thing to do?

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative but that complaint went over my head. >>

We often sell multiple items to 1 buyer. Most think you're overcharging when, if fact, we often ship at a loss of multiples.

I just received a question a few minutes ago asking if I would cut the shipping below actual cost. This from a seller with a shipping DSR of 4.4 on over 400 sales.

I recently had a guy object to an invoice and offer to pay $4.50 for shipping multiple items. Actual postage was $12.90. He was invoiced for $10. He is predominately a seller. >>

I think you made my point a lot better than I did. Most auctions I ever saw have a shipping cost and for me that it part of MY cost at bidding. If I get a break thats great...................but to auto expect it?..........Thays foolish

TavernTreasures · May 14, 2008 4:44AM

I have been an EBAY member since 1997 and have over 1000 feedbacks(100% positive). I treat all my customers with respect and with honest acurate listings. I have had many deadbeat buyers in the past. This new rule will be great for these deatbeats. They are in denial of what they really are. In their little minds they always blame the seller for the problem of them not paying. I am positive that I would have gotten negs from every one of them if they knew that I could not retaliate against them. You sellers better get ready to get undeserved negs from them now.

jmski52 · May 14, 2008 4:44AM

And buyers who practice retaliation in order to extort a better deal after the auction now get a free ride.

If that actually ever happens, I'll worry about it then.

I had a buyer who didn't want to comply with my auction terms - he sent me a check and expected me to ship before the funds were secure. Now, he could threaten me with a neg if I stand up to him after the auction closes.

And, as others have just pointed out - if a buyer doesn't like the shipping charges - watch out! In addition to ebay's coercive paypal signup policy, this may just be a way to end up having the seller pay all shipping, all the time. Good for buyers, not so good for sellers in the long run.

AlixTCat · May 14, 2008 4:48AM

<< 

<< On the other hand, I will be buying, and I will be leaving honest feedback. If you treat me right, positive, if you over charge on shipping

How does anyone get over charged for shipping?

This is an real question.

If the auction does not say shipping costs, don't you ask before you bid? Isn't that a normal thing to do?

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative but that complaint went over my head. >>

We often sell multiple items to 1 buyer. Most think you're overcharging when, if fact, we often ship at a loss of multiples.

I just received a question a few minutes ago asking if I would cut the shipping below actual cost. This from a seller with a shipping DSR of 4.4 on over 400 sales.

I recently had a guy object to an invoice and offer to pay $4.50 for shipping multiple items. Actual postage was $12.90. He was invoiced for $10. He is predominately a seller. >>

The whole rating your seller crap is a joke. I've got no qualms with people saying what they think, but I go out of my way in every facet of what can be rated. I sold some computers and communicated with all the buyers. One spoke only Spanish, so I used Babelfish translator. That seemed to go well. Another would not provide me with a confirmed address... anyway, what I am trying to say is that I don't think it fair that out of that group of 12 people, some actually had the nerve to not give me the full points even though I provided top notch service.

However, some non-eBay selling people who have seen my percentages and don't take it personally like I do have commented on what good ratings I have. So, it is all relative.

Jonathan

Edited to change the subject.

ebaytrader · May 14, 2008 4:49AM

<< ebaytrader,

You go from 99.5% to 100% on Monday.

Russ, NCNE >>

So what?

What really matters - the discount for the DSR - I won't get. 4.6 for shipping amount and most multiple lot shipments are done at a loss. 4.8 for shipping time - I've never held a package for shipping after a payment cleared more than a few hours and never more than 1 business day. 4.8 for communication - Hmmm, maybe it's from the tons of people that have bad email addresses or block us as spam. I send a minimum of 2 emails with any purchase.

Expect feedback to begin reflecting those DSR's.

THE ONE QUESTION THAT BELONGS IN THE DSR IS: WOULD YOU BUY FROM THIS SELLER AGAIN.

They won't add it 'cuz they really don't care and that's not what the whole program is about.

Russ · May 14, 2008 4:53AM

<< When does this pop up?

I just bought something and paid and nothing popped up.

I even went to feedback and nothing popped up. >>

Not yet implemented on eBay US.

Russ, NCNE

19Lyds · May 14, 2008 5:16AM

<< 

<< When does this pop up?

I just bought something and paid and nothing popped up.

I even went to feedback and nothing popped up. >>

Not yet implemented on eBay US.

Russ, NCNE >>

Thanks Russ. For a second there I thought I went invisible.......................

norwegianguy · May 14, 2008 6:53AM

You can choose your seller. You can't choose your buyer.

Therefore, I don't see the point in giving feedback to a buyer at all.

File a dispute on him.

After x disputes, he will be excluded.

norwegianguy · May 14, 2008 7:17AM

<< How does anyone get over charged for shipping?

This is an real question.

If the auction does not say shipping costs, don't you ask before you bid? Isn't that a normal thing to do?

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative but that complaint went over my head. >>

There are many grey areas here:

1. Combined shipping.
If the auctions close at the same time, you don't know in beforehand how many lots you will win.
I was a "fool" once, and put bids on as much as 40 different auctions from an italian seller who was piecing out his collection of minor value coins ($2-$10 per coin). The listing said $14 for registered shipping worldwide. We both lived in Europe, so it would even be cheaper for him. For combined shipping I would have accepted $20..$30...even $40. Living in Europe myself, I saw no way that the shipping could be more expensive than that, so I didn't bother to ask for rates for combined shipping.

I ended up winning 24 of his auctions for a total of $82. That is: 24 coins.
He insisted that I paid 24 times $14: A total shipping cost of $336.
I tried to negotiate, I tried to file a dispute, but nothing helped. I ended up paying $336 in shipping for a package that I believed would ship for $14.
When I received the package, I noticed
(a) he had shipped all 24 coins together in the same envelope.
(b) the postage he had actually paid for this envelope was....$14. Not $336. Actually he had paid a bit less than $14.

2. Inflated shipping to avoid ebay fees.
At least last year, I saw lots of items priced at $0.01 with a shipping charge at $100+. Even for small items.
You still see it in the music category, I think.

3. Difference from the listing.
The listing states one rate for shipping. You are charged something else. This is very typical when you buy from a foreign country. Often, this is OK, because there are actual costs to be covered.

Interesting Message eBay will send out to bidders when they win an auction

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