Rookie card - payal claim

swartz1 · April 25, 2008 11:57AM

Over the past couple of months I have been buying lower end schmidt rookies - graded and raw...

I spot a recent auction and email the seller ahead of time specifically asking if the schmidt rookie has any creases... he has low feedback and none of his auctions were graded cards...

He replied "no" it is near mint.... well you know the rest... I receive it today and it was well packaged but two creases ...3/4 inch bottom left and on the corner...

Now my question is...

Can I get my money back(some or all) through paypal with the "significantly not as described"..

any help would be great...

nam812 · April 25, 2008 12:02PM

First step is to email the seller nicely. Mention to him that you emailed him during the auction specifically about any creases, and he replied no. Let him know that when you received the card today you were surprised to fine not one, but two creases since his email had said near mint. Then let him know that had you known about the creases you would not have bid, and would like to return the card. All the time being nice. His response to that detailed email should let you know, without question, what his position is (good or bad). Good luck, and sorry that this happened to you.

Edited to add: Do not mention negative feedback and/or paypal dispute yet. Make him feel comfortable and not backed into a corner....for now.

StanTheManMusial · April 25, 2008 12:03PM

Swartz,

I have heard of guys doing exactly what you are mentioning with Paypal, and they got their money back. Not sure if it works all the time, but some have stated they got their money back when stuff was not as described.

Sorry to hear that you got stuck with a creased card. Nothing like being disappointed by a dishonest seller.

Maybe the seller will refund you? I would at least ask, before doing a Paypal claim.

swartz1 · April 25, 2008 12:14PM

thanks so far for the comments ...my first two email were "nice" but it is starting to get a little ugly - here is his last reply to my third email...

I didn't answer your e-mails for a while because i was at the hospital visiting my mother who is quite ill. So you know what this card thing really dosen't mean all that much to me. And another thing you will not find a more honest person in this world i am new to e-bay you can tell by the number of feedbacks. I only started selling cards a week and a half ago and have learned a very valuable lesson from this sale i will never ever call a card again as far as grade the card look great to me and i honestly did not see any creases in the card you must be using a 400 power microscope. Anyways like i said my mothers health means more to me than this stupid card so you do what you want. Remember where is says about refunds i did not offer them so you should have read that before bidding also.

- douglas3557

StanTheManMusial · April 25, 2008 12:16PM

Looks like a Paypal claim is merited at this time.

TheHun · April 25, 2008 12:17PM

nam812 has give you golden wisdom.

One step at a time and give the benefit of the doubt - be prepared to take measures.

cheers

WinPitcher · April 25, 2008 12:21PM

Time to file a claim with paypal.

sorry this happened to you.

could you link the auction?

Steve

StanTheManMusial · April 25, 2008 12:23PM

<< nam812 has give you golden wisdom.

One step at a time and give the benefit of the doubt - be prepared to take measures.

cheers >>

Did you read the seller's latest replies?

Kinda leaves out the giving the benefit of the doubt, at this point. If swartz does not do a claim, he will probably be stuck with a creased card, because the seller does not seem to care.

diamondman · April 25, 2008 12:28PM

<< Looks like a Paypal claim is merited at this time. >>

Yes file a Paypal claim as item not as described . You should not have a problem. Good luck hope everything works out for you.

WinPitcher · April 25, 2008 12:29PM

I think the Hun was typing while the last posts were being posted, all were within 2 to 3 minutes of one another.

Steve

diamondman · April 25, 2008 12:33PM

<< I think the Hun was typing while the last posts were being posted, all were within 2 to 3 minutes of one another.

Steve >>

Just remember it's a full moon somewhere in the world or in outer space. LOL

StanTheManMusial · April 25, 2008 12:34PM

<< I think the Hun was typing while the last posts were being posted, all were within 2 to 3 minutes of one another.

Steve >>

Yeah, you're right.

It just stinks when a seller has this kind of attitude, that results in the buyer having to try and get justice.

storm888 · April 25, 2008 12:40PM

No "benefit of the doubt" here.

The guy is a burner.

When somebody starts telling me about nearly-dead relatives,
and about how honest they are, I KNOW they are SCUM trying
to steal from me.

File a PayPal SNAD claim immediately.

You will have to pay return shipping, to get the refund.

Don't NEG him, unless he has already left POS FB.

Soon, most of the good sellers will be run off and the
garbage newbies will burn the place to the ground.

NOT smart/safe to buy raw stuff from unknown EBAYers.
In fact, it's not good to buy ANYTHING from unknown EBAYers.

swartz1 · April 25, 2008 12:42PM

email #2:

I can only apologize if there are creases i'm not a professional grader and i really don't remember any creases on the card. The other fact is you probably got $300 worth of cards for under $100. pretty good deal. I can only call the cards the way i see them and how others grade them on the internet. I don't know what else to say except sorry if you are not happy. I really pride myself of having a 100% rating on e-bay i'm not here to spoof anyone.

email #1:

My problem is when is shipped the cards and i am not a blind person there were no creases in the rookie card. I really don't card what you do, like i said i'm not a professional grader i saw no creases thats all i can say. Maybe you should have bid on a graded card if that is what you wanted so bad.

The corner is obvious...the scuff below cey is obvious...the crease runs up through dodgers and is difficult to see with the white background...

I have not even mentioned the initial or bad color job on the back of the card...

edited for pics (screwed em up)

swartz1 · April 25, 2008 12:47PM

NOT smart/safe to buy raw stuff from unknown EBAYers.
In fact, it's not good to buy ANYTHING from unknown EBAYers.

I do know better - believe it or not -

I have had a few (a few) good deals with newbies - but even my wife laughed when I had her look at the card -

divecchia · April 25, 2008 1:03PM

I'd file a paypal claim. His reply is definitely not professional and if he had an ounce of that honesty that he talks about he would just refund the money.

Donato

swartz1 · April 26, 2008 8:23AM

email #4

Dear swartz1,

I see that you have filed your complaint. I have taken time to remember this situation i remember now to e-mails to you first was saying that the card was in mint condition only by my own grading system then another e-mail to say that after looking at the card again that the bottom left hand corner had some wear or if you want a small crease but unless it was damaged further during shipment for which i cannot be held responsible and thats it. Also i thought you had paid just under 100.00 for all these cards you actually paid under 62.00. My take is that unless you are buying a graded card described in the sellers area then you really don't have a leg to stand on. I did not say the card was graded mint 10,9,8,7 of any sort. You still got a great buy on all these cards i don't know what your problem is once again i did not say it was a GRADED card.

- douglas3557

Allen · April 26, 2008 8:33AM

I doubt you win anything from paypal.

digicat · April 26, 2008 8:35AM

String him up.

zep33 · April 26, 2008 8:41AM

Actually, I need that Schmidt card for my raw set if you want to trade or anything. I have mostly modern stuff though

fkw · April 26, 2008 8:57AM

Card looks OK to me, $62 plus other cards??? You got a deal IMO, why return it.

To some noncollectors that card is Near MINT (close to Mint).

WinPitcher · April 26, 2008 9:04AM

Is it possible to see the auction?

Steve

jimq112 · April 26, 2008 9:24AM

Steve, I think it's this one.

<<UP FOR AUCTION ARE SIX HALL OF FAME MIKE SCHMIDT CARDS FROM TOPPS AND ONE FROM UPPER DECK. ALTHOUGH NOT A PROFESSIONAL GRADER I WOULD SAY THE CARDS ARE ALL VERY GOOD TO NEAR MINT WITH ALL CLEAN FRONTS AND BACKS AND SHARP CORNERS.

LIST OF CARDS

1973 TOPPS ROOKIE CARD #615, 1977 TOPPS CARD #2, 1976 TOPPS CARD #200, 1977 TOPPS CARD #140, 1978 TOPPS CARD #360, 1990 UPPER DECK CARD #20, 1976 TOPPS CARD #193. I WILL SHIP THESE CARDS IN PLASTIC PROTECTORS AND BUBBLE ENVELOPE. >>

Terrible picture from a foot or 2 away. The part that's probably going to let the seller win the paypal dispute is the "very good to near mint".

swartz1 · April 26, 2008 9:36AM

I guess when I emailed him prior and he specifically told me the schmidt rookie was nrmt/mint - and it came with a crease and writing on it - I was thinking the seller was pulling a fast one...

WinPitcher · April 26, 2008 9:40AM

I think it is more like the seller has no idea what he is doing. with that said, if any buyer of mine is unhappy I refund.

I don't get into it (unlike here)

IMO I feel the Schmidt is worth 50.00 no?

Steve

Allen · April 26, 2008 9:45AM

I think the seller is like plifter and his perfect without any flaws Tony Gwynn rookie.

WinPitcher · April 26, 2008 9:55AM

guess when I emailed him prior and he specifically told me the schmidt rookie was nrmt/mint - and it came with a crease and writing on it - I was thinking the seller was pulling a fast one...

in a way he was.

same thing happened to me once.

Steve

storm888 · April 26, 2008 9:57AM

"...THE CARDS ARE ALL VERY GOOD TO NEAR MINT WITH ALL CLEAN FRONTS AND BACKS AND SHARP CORNERS...."

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

If you can make a SNAD case using that descrption, you might prevail.
Otherwise, probably not.

Sometimes, when we think we are getting a great deal, we only get an "OK" deal.
Such is the way of EBAY.

Looks like you probably got your money's worth, BUT if you hate the cards the
seller should offer a refund and relist the cards. The buyer should pay the
freight back to the seller.

We will just have to see what the PayPal gang says.

jimq112 · April 26, 2008 10:00AM

I think the seller is breaking up one of those ebay junk lots he bought hoping he would get rich. He bought a junk ebay star lot in March for $2500 and was less than thrilled with it. The feedback he left was

Nice cards but expected more star players for price and 10,000 cards.

The seller is another ebay seller who doesn't know what he's selling. Bad luck for the OP but the card's still worth something, at least it's not a junk reprint!

WinPitcher · April 26, 2008 10:07AM

Mr Investor huh? I got to his 13th word and moved on. Douglas should have too.

Steve

storm888 · April 26, 2008 10:11AM

When folks come here wanting opinions, the more information that
is provided in the first post the more valid/useful the comments from
the gallery can be.

Links or listing #s are a good help to get a true overview of what is going down.

EDIT To ADD:

The seller acted like a creep in his first email. The buyer probably got at least a moderate deal.

WinPitcher · April 26, 2008 10:20AM

....and writing on it?

Steve

KbKards · April 26, 2008 11:18AM

The spot on the back is just a bubble in the printing and is not writing of any sort. If you're buying raw cards in addition to asking the seller any pertinent questions, ask for a higher quality picture of the card you're buying. The picture tells the truth, but in this case the crease you're talking about is so minor that it could easily be missed in a better picture or a brief look by an inexperienced seller. The picture would have showed that the card wasn't an 8. You can't expect to pay $62 for a card that will grade an 8. You paid a fair price for what you got.

WinPitcher · April 26, 2008 11:26AM

KBK are you the seller?

if so and if not welcome to the boards.

Steve

WinPitcher · April 26, 2008 11:36PM

Steve

swartz1 · April 27, 2008 12:48AM

<< The spot on the back is just a bubble in the printing and is not writing of any sort. If you're buying raw cards in addition to asking the seller any pertinent questions, ask for a higher quality picture of the card you're buying. The picture tells the truth, but in this case the crease you're talking about is so minor that it could easily be missed in a better picture or a brief look by an inexperienced seller. The picture would have showed that the card wasn't an 8. You can't expect to pay $62 for a card that will grade an 8. You paid a fair price for what you got. >>

thanks for your input KBK, but I am going to have to disagree with you since I have the card in hand - it is clearly a "B" take a look at a lower resolution scan - in response to the comment - you are correct I cant assume I would get an "8" - but maybe a "6" ? which is clearly why I placed my bid in the manner I did -

now a guaranteed 5 with marking...like some have mentioned on here before deals can be found - I guess I was looking for a deal (too good to be true I guess)

it is easy to Monday morning quarterback and now I should have asked for a closer scan - but I thought I was asking the real question I wanted answered which was about the creases...onto the initial...

KbKards · April 27, 2008 1:25AM

The spot in the solid black border was a bubble in the ink when printed. The bubble popped and the B pattern you see is splattered ink.

WinPitcher · April 27, 2008 1:35AM

I agree with KBK, I don't see that as writing, I have seen that before on 73's.

I think it is caused by dust while printing.

Steve

swartz1 · April 27, 2008 1:44AM

if the black ink splattered gray you are probably right...

WinPitcher · April 27, 2008 1:48AM

Swartzie I have seen that exact problem b4 with 73's, don't be concerned with that as being marked, all in all I think you
did pretty good with that card.

You are in for what 50.00?

Steve

swartz1 · April 27, 2008 1:57AM

$61 - the other schmidts in the lot were junk fillers - oh maybe a mint 1986 topps

digicat · April 27, 2008 2:31AM

The card stock is gray, so it just looks like a spot didn't get any ink.

Regardless, if you feel you're entitled to a refund based on the seller's deceptive description, I totally support that position.

Sellers need to be held accountable for their description, both on Ebay and to individual buyers. There are accepted rough guidelines for determining the grade of a card within the baseball card hobby. NO GUIDELINE ALLOWS FOR A CREASE FOR ANY CARD ABOVE "NEAR MINT." If the seller couldn't take the trouble to look closely, then that's the seller's problem, not the buyers. This would have worked out better if the seller said "Oops, I missed that, you'll get a refund." Instead, we've got the "well, considering the price you paid, you got a good deal."

The money was paid with the expectation of particular quality, based on the description. The seller is ALWAYS out of line if he then tries to retroactivly assign item quality to the bid that is placed. The bid that is placed is based on item quality, not the other way around.

WinPitcher · April 27, 2008 2:59AM

Agreed! Last night a buyer informed me he was unhappy with a purchase he made from me. W/o going into
details I simply told him to return the card for a refund. It is not worth the aggravation. I had a good scan
in my case my buyer is also a seller of cards and I think he was hoping to get a 50.00 card for 12.00

If the card could have sold for 50.00 I'd have tried to get that myself.

Now the guy is bidding on some other of my auctions.

Steve

larryallen73 · April 27, 2008 4:27AM

I think people that buy raw are gambling more than those who buy packs to rip. There is a reason the cards are being sold raw... they probably won't grade as high as you think they will by looking at the scan! On top of that are unscroupolous and also novice sellers. That's why I only buy (and sell) graded cards on Ebay. Way too much risk otherwise.

storm888 · April 27, 2008 5:06AM

"Way too much risk otherwise. "

//////////////////////////////////////////////////

Simply a FACT.

CDsNuts · April 27, 2008 5:36AM

I like to gamble on vintage cards where the scans aren't that good and the seller knows little about cards, but you have to be aware going in that it's a gamble. Unless the cards are grossly overgraded (which I don't think is the case here), I tend to just bite the bullet and accept it as a break even or slight loss. All you need is that one diamond in the rough and you come out way ahead. You can usually come close to breaking even if you get the cards and don't like them and just relist them. If you put this lot back on ebay you would get close to your buy price.

digicat · April 27, 2008 5:37AM

<< Simply a FACT. >>

Sadly, it's risky BECAUSE of slimy sellers like the one in the OP.

Still, when a seller gets on his high horse and thinks he's above the rules and starts coming up with creative uses of the word "oppinion" or irrelivant circumstances such as "my mom's in the hospital," I want to see justice.

If all the "my mom/wife/sister/daughter/dog is in the hospital/morgue" stories that sleezy sellers and deadbeat bidders tell are true, then Ebay is the most dangerous website to do business on, as it taps directly into your Karma or something.

WinPitcher · April 27, 2008 1:33PM

So was KbKards the seller here or what? or did he just drop in for the thread and this thread only?

Steve

Rookie card - payal claim

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