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Question about the U.S.A. Adelhaide Voyage to New York Medal, 1808 [Those under 18, please don't ope

LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I was taking a look at the upcoming Stack's auction catalog, and this lot caught my eye. Unfortuately, the description of the medal is not very deep, but I will post the complete text below. It looks like this medal was hand carved. Although this medal is probably unique, does anyone know if this was a common practice (in other words, is there a category of medals called "voyage medals" or something like that)? Also, due to its nature, how can one compare it to other medals in terms of price, rarity, and quality? Here is the text:

"U.S.A. Adelhaide Voyage to New York Medal, 1808.

Silver, 68.7mm, 38.98 grams. Obv. Three-masted sailing ship bearing the name Adelhaide, on stern, flying the Dutch flag, NEW YORK above, border consists of an inner line and corded circle. Rev. Nude commerce god Mercury holds caduceus, 1808 on bale at l. Entirely hand-engraved in bold seafaring style and very probably unique, a remarkable handwork of the early 19th century. Extremely Fine. (1,000-1,500)"



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Always took candy from strangers
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Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,769 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can't let the young'uns see a caduceus!!!!!!!!
    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭
    I think that if I were going to head out to sea to conquer new worlds, I might at least pack a pair of trousers. Or maybe that's what he has in the little sack he's holding?
    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • IGWTIGWT Posts: 4,975
    -- Or maybe that's what he has in the little sack he's holding? --

    Which little sack?
  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    Interesting item. Adelaide in Australia was founded in 1836, almost 20 years after the date on this meda. So I think any link to a voyage from New York to Adelaide (Australia was still in dutch hands back then so it is not completely unlikely) can be excluded.

    Adelhaide is an obsolete northen-european surname as far as I know, only mentioned a few times in the late 19th century (and most likely evolved into another surname or completely dissapeared) and only a few people still carry it. Besides that I can't find any references, neither in American or Dutch sites. The earliest references date from the 9th century so the surname itself is quite old. It has to be noted however, that in some german dialects Adelaide in Australia is still written as "Adelhaide".

    There is however a street called Adelhaide Ln in New York, so I'm wondering if that has anything do with this medal. I'm not that into the growth of New York over the centuries, so maybe someone here know if the area was already populated in the early 19th century (Link to Google Maps).

    My main theory is that this medal was based on a voyage in 1808 to New York, from either Holland or Germany and that the person that came to New York was named Adelhaide. Several Adelhaides turn op in States close to New York, so this could be relatives. This does not necessary mean the medal was actually made in 1808.

    Dennis


  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    I can come up with 3 people who came to New York in 1808 with the first name Adelhaide:

    *Adelhaide Launois
    *Adelhaide Sandberg
    *Adelhaide Bassner
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, if I was sailing to NY from Europe, I would have brought some pants...too many things can go wrong.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Just in case it's an alternate spelling of "Adelaide", here's a customs list for Prince Edward Island, Canada, in 1808.

    Note there is an entry for the "Adelaide" which came to P.E.I. from Halifax on 26 September 1808. Whether it may have been related, or whether this eventually went on to New York (or indeed, may have come from New York to Halifax), is anyone's guess. Just trying for another angle here...
  • you would think after going through the all the trouble to make that you would carve up some pants too
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,769 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just in case it's an alternate spelling of "Adelaide", here's a customs list for Prince Edward Island, Canada, in 1808.

    Note there is an entry for the "Adelaide" which came to P.E.I. from Halifax on 26 September 1808. Whether it may have been related, or whether this eventually went on to New York (or indeed, may have come from New York to Halifax), is anyone's guess. Just trying for another angle here... >>



    Good sleuthing!
    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.


  • << <i>I think that if I were going to head out to sea to conquer new worlds, I might at least pack a pair of trousers. Or maybe that's what he has in the little sack he's holding? >>


    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • Why is he carrying a caduceus? Those are for medical people. Mercury was only qualified for a single snake.
  • A very interesting post as usual for Longacre. If that medal is unique, which I am not arguing with that fact, because of the theme and relationship with New York, I feel that there will be several American players for it.
    Greg Cohen

    Senior Numismatist

    Legend Rare Coin Auctions
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,485 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A very interesting post as usual for Longacre. If that medal is unique, which I am not arguing with that fact, because of the theme and relationship with New York, I feel that there will be several American players for it. >>



    It's unique because it's hand engraved.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • firstmintfirstmint Posts: 1,171
    From the raised rim, and the centering of the planchet with the reeded edge, it is apparent that this item was originally struck on a coin press of some kind.

    The perfect circle around the inside of both rims, and the slanted (corded) denticles is another indication.

    Who would have struck a blank center planchet in silver in 1808 (or earlier)?

    The Dutch East India company made regular deliveries to New York (and Boston, Philly, etc.) in the pre-revolutionary days (and afterwards). Mercury was the Roman mythological god of commerce, so could this have been a Captain's good luck piece presented to him at the launching of the ship? There doesn't appear to be any wear.

    The engraving is similar to scrimshaw pieces of the time, however, with this item being hardened silver, it would have been a difficult thing to accomplish without some silversmithing tools. It is well executed in design and application; and I believe it's doubtful that it was done by a sailor during a sea voyage.

    It is a very unusual item that deserves further research.

    PM me if you are looking for U.S. auction catalogs
  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    The Dutch East India Company had been dead for a decade by 1808.

    While this thing is very cool, honestly, if it didn't say New York on it most folks wouldn't give it a second thought -- such items are pretty frequently encountered (common isn't exactly the right word) in European contexts. This is bigger than most (the medal, not the anatomy).

    If I had to guess, it was probably made in Europe (perhaps in England or Holland) to celebrate a ship's initial voyage to New York to begin plying one of the more profitable trade routes of the Atlantic in that era. The workmanship in both the engraving and the pre-struck planchet suggests a Continental origin.

    Figuring out boats by their name is pretty hard -- it's easy to get stumped. Like children, their names tend to be drawn from a pool of names that promotes duplication. The fact that there is a name, a date, and a port of call here means someone should be able to triangulate and pinpoint it precisely.

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