Disappointed VCP first-timer

Buccaneer · April 19, 2008 9:42AM

I finally signed up for VCP and think it's a great looking site. However, I am disappointed in the front-end searching and search results displays. First, I can't search for a specific card and have to drill down to go to the set and then go through the screens to actually click on the card I want to view. Once there, I find the Latest Auction Prices and Grades matrices to be nearly worthless and have to click on a specific grade in order to get the average of the last 5 prices (and then have to filter out the bad results to get a decent average). I had expected to get to the set checklist and see some average prices there. But knowing now that's unrealistic, I would then expect to see the average prices when clicking on the card - not having to do more clicking. And then when I add the card to my want list, it gives me a list of current eBay auctions, which is fine I guess, but the list of the cards in the group doesn't tell me anything useful. Here's an example:

Card #: 58 Year: 1968 Player Name: Ed Mathews Category: Baseball Grade: PSA 7
Set Name: 1968 Topps Edit | Delete | Auctions(3) | Card Profile

It doesn't give me any average prices, just that there are 3 auctions (big whoop). It gives me the option to export or print this, but why? I know what my want list looks like, I just wanted a better way to view average/expected prices. The want lists that I have been keeping for years simply list the cards by set, the book value and then the average/expected prices by grade. I have been doing this by hand and thought that VCP would give me an easier way to do at least that - as oppose to searching Completed Auctions on eBay, which seems to be easier than VCP. Oh well.

shagrotn77 · April 19, 2008 9:46AM

Not sure what you mean. You can absolutely search by specific cards. And for the most part the average sell price is right on, except for a few instances where a qualified card made its way in there.

grote15 · April 19, 2008 9:47AM

I disagree. Though it takes some getting used to, as far as navigating the site goes, once you get the hang of it, it's pretty efficient. It records all completed auctions for a specific card, on ebay, and any other major auction house, but obviously there are many cards that don't come up for sale that often in a particular grade, so there won't be much data to go by in those cases. However, the membership fee is definitely worth it, as it'll help you save alot of money and prevent you from overbidding on a certain card. I've saved a ton with it already.

70chip · April 19, 2008 10:06AM

I am going to sound like an idiot.....but what is VCP? I know I should know, but I don't. Sorry for the dumb question.

Buccaneer · April 19, 2008 10:07AM

I don't dispute the data, even though I have found wrong cards and qualified cards. It's the process of getting to that average price that is cumbersome and way too many clicks, as well as My VCP (based on my want lists) being uninformative. For example, I have (13) 1968 Topps cards on my want list. It took half an hour to go to each card, look at the each of the grades I am interested in, come up with a good average and then add it my list. However, I still record the information in my spreadsheet because My VCP doesn't give me what I want.

Buccaneer · April 19, 2008 10:12AM

I'll give you another example. Here's the 1968 Topps Tigers Team Card #528

Latest Auction Prices and Grades (Click on price in the grade to see all results)

Grader: PSA

5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 10

$11.83 n/a $18.50 n/a $46.00 n/a $52.00 n/a $345.00 $987.00

I don't want the latest, I want the average. I have to click on each of the grades to get that information.

I'm not here to bash VCP but to know if there is a better way to get the information I want.

Buccaneer · April 19, 2008 10:12AM

<< Not sure what you mean. You can absolutely search by specific cards. >>

Tell me how. All I see on the Search Screen is this:

Search By:
Player Last Name: (Ruth, Mays, DiMaggio, etc.)
Exactly Starts with
Include Multi-Player Cards

-- Or --

ACC #: (T206, R308, N690, etc.)

-- Or --

Set Name: (Goudey, Topps, Bowman, etc.)

-- Or --

Card Type: Cabinet CardsCoinsD_Cards (Baking)Extra Cards (Beverage & Etc)E_Cards (Candy)Foreign CardsF_Cards (Food)H_Cards (Clothing & Sporting Goods)Minors CardsM_Cards (Magazine & Newspaper)N_Cards (Pre-1900 Tobacco)PinsPostcardR_Cards (Gum)StampsT_Cards (Tobacco)Unopened PacksW Cards (Strip & Exhibits)1950 Cards1960 Cards1970 Cards1980 Cards

brianwintersfan · April 19, 2008 11:27AM

<< I finally signed up for VCP and think it's a great looking site. However, I am disappointed in the front-end searching and search results displays. First, I can't search for a specific card and have to drill down to go to the set and then go through the screens to actually click on the card I want to view. Once there, I find the Latest Auction Prices and Grades matrices to be nearly worthless and have to click on a specific grade in order to get the average of the last 5 prices (and then have to filter out the bad results to get a decent average). I had expected to get to the set checklist and see some average prices there. But knowing now that's unrealistic, I would then expect to see the average prices when clicking on the card - not having to do more clicking. And then when I add the card to my want list, it gives me a list of current eBay auctions, which is fine I guess, but the list of the cards in the group doesn't tell me anything useful. Here's an example:

Card #: 58 Year: 1968 Player Name: Ed Mathews Category: Baseball Grade: PSA 7
Set Name: 1968 Topps Edit | Delete | Auctions(3) | Card Profile

It doesn't give me any average prices, just that there are 3 auctions (big whoop). It gives me the option to export or print this, but why? I know what my want list looks like, I just wanted a better way to view average/expected prices. The want lists that I have been keeping for years simply list the cards by set, the book value and then the average/expected prices by grade. I have been doing this by hand and thought that VCP would give me an easier way to do at least that - as oppose to searching Completed Auctions on eBay, which seems to be easier than VCP. Oh well. >>

Might be time to build your own site??

swartz1 · April 19, 2008 11:34AM

saw this on another thread...

http://www.cardpricer.com

RonBurgundy · April 19, 2008 12:04PM

I agree it is complicated and cumbersome to navigate, for the reasons you cite. You wind up spending much more time on the site than you should, really. And the values should be calculated based on the average of the last 5 auctions as opposed only to the most recent one.

That said, for the price it's not bad. But I would expect some improvements in the future if I'm going to continue subscribing to it.

Ron

elsnorto · April 19, 2008 12:37PM

I have found performance of the site to be hit or miss. When it is quick to respond, it is not so cumbersome to have to drill down and find what you are looking for. But when the site is chugging along, it can be incredibly tedius. I do agree though that it would be nice to get the info you desire with one click... and that average sales price would be more helpful to see than the last sale.

What I personally would really like to see is a checklist with the player, year, set, card number, and average prices for the various (or user selected) grades in one single view. Honestly, I think it may have been engineered the way it was to make getting that very information a labor intensive process and keep subscribers rather than have them join, grab the checklists they wanted with a few simple steps, and then cancel their subscription.

Snorto~

Wondo · April 19, 2008 1:12PM

I find it very cumbersome, however, I am not aware of an alternative.

It also seems very slow most times.

Buccaneer · April 19, 2008 1:37PM

Thanks for the replies, I didn't think I was the only one.

There is an alternative for the information I want, completed auctions on eBay. I do go through my lists about once a month, so the 60-day limit is no big deal. ALso I think eBay has an extended plan or something if you want to go further back.

Like I said, it is a very nice looking site and it's great for checking on prices for a certain card, as many seems to request here.

grote15 · April 19, 2008 1:49PM

Checkinmg ebay's completed auctions will provide even less data than VCP, which goes back years and also includes auction house sales for cards, too. One thing that has been mentioned here, though, that I do agree with, is the speed of the site, which does seem slow at times. Maybe they need a better server? But if you're set collecting and looking up data for a single year, VCP is excellent.

TheVon · April 19, 2008 1:54PM

You should post your suggestions on their site. They really seem to try to make the improvements people want. For instance, they just decided to add two more servers because all the images they have been storing were causing the site to slow down.

Griffins · April 19, 2008 1:55PM

<< Maybe they need a better server? >>

There was an announcement on their board last week that they were installing new servers this week.
Since they started storing images a few months ago it seems to have slowed down. Pulling up "my collection" can take a while, so hopefully things will speed up in the next few weeks.

Buccaneer · April 19, 2008 1:56PM

Actually, I think the last 5 auctions average is a good way to go since what cards sold for 2006 pretty much has no bearing today. I am speaking about stars and commons from popular sets, not high dollar cards which I can imagine a long term trend would be important to know.

yawie99 · April 19, 2008 1:57PM

Agreed. I signed up for a subscription but canceled after a month because of the less-than-stellar user interface. I'm considering giving it another shot because it does have a lot of great information that I'm too lazy to track and too forgetful to remember myself, but I'd love to see smoother navigation.

BobbyVCP · April 19, 2008 2:41PM

We are always open to ideas to make the site better for everyone. If you can come up with a way for us to make searches better we are willing to to try it out for you. We listen to our members and honestly try our best to incorporate the ideas given to the best of our ability. You are the user of our product and do things we don't everyday we do not use it the same way as you.

Because we started storing images on all completed auctions last December or server reached 96% capacity and became very slow. We made mention of it in our forums and last week got 2 more servers to move the images to and it dropped it down to 21%. We still have to optimize the server and work on some to the table scripts to make things faster. But as of now it is running much faster and more efficient.

I read mention of the bad listings, on every page of the site there is a "Report a problem" tell us and we will get it fixed right away. We are adding 25-30 thousand auctions a week and some of the cards fall through the loop. We get a couple a day telling us of mistakes and we take care of it right then and there. You see the data a lot more then we do so please tell us. We are trying very hard to give a good quality customer service and answer every email that day.

Here are some things in the works:

In regards to the price grid now that our data is getting large enough we will be doing the following. The rule is simple if there are 5 sales of a card by grade and grader it will drop the high and low sale and average out the middle three as long as the sales are within a calendar year. If there is 10 or more it will drop the high and low 2 sales and average out the six remaining. These will be the prices that will show in the grid and not the last sale anymore.

Currently we are very close to adding a snipe system to the site. The way it will work is you select a card you want to bid on and a window will open showing you all the latest sales information. This way you won't have to look up the card to determine the price you want to enter. The good thing about this also is you create the snipe via eBay and a token is installed for a year I believe so you do not have to give us your password and user name.

Want list alerts that you get emailed will have the sales information and average in it so you do not have to go back to the site to research the card.

We have about 30 more things on our list that we want to add to the site but these are the ones we are working on at the moment. Once we get the site done and to a place where we are not constantly adding function then we can have more time concentrating on making it faster. You can't just go out and get a faster server we have the fastest you can get there is a lot more involved then that. If you have been a long time member I am sure you have seen major changes in the site, if you are a new one you have not experienced it.

Again we greatly appreciate everyone here that is a member and are striving to be the best we can and will be one day.

Bobby

djspann · April 19, 2008 3:48PM

<< Actually, I think the last 5 auctions average is a good way to go since what cards sold for 2006 pretty much has no bearing today. I am speaking about stars and commons from popular sets, not high dollar cards which I can imagine a long term trend would be important to know. >>

I think this is not true for vintage stuff, in general, even for popular sets. If you narrow sales down to one grade, or even +/- one grade, I'd bet there are a significant number of vintage cards in that range that haven't sold more than 5 times in the last two years. I very much appreciate seeing the older data. Still, I can see how 2006 would be very outdated for some items.

Thanks for the update, Bobby.

Doug

kingraider75 · April 19, 2008 4:01PM

Does it even matter that much?? A card may sell for $200 in Jan 2008, and then go up to $500 in April 2008. Maybe two people are battling for the card, etc etc.

You get market value at the time, not market value from a year ago. Besides, would you rely on the prices from a year on most other commidities???

Griffins · April 19, 2008 4:03PM

I"m not sure averaging prices even means anything.
First off, there are sales that don't mean anything- auction houses that have no credibility, ebay sales that have been run up by shillers, listings that are in the wrong category.
Then you have variations in eye appeal- and especially on vintage (pre WW2) the lower grade cards liks 2's, 3's and 4's have huge differences between the technical grade and the eye appeal, causing wide fluctuations in price.
Is it a PSA graded card? There are a few voracious buyers that drive prices thru the roof once they start collecting a particular set, but once their set is completed prices settle back considerably.
Lastly, when a card doesn't come up for an extended period of time on a thinly traded issue the first sale may go thru the roof, but if a second sale occurs within a relatively short time period it may go for a lot less, since you no longer have an underbidder.
I'd rather see all the data and scans and make my own judgment on what the current value is.

sbtrailrider · April 19, 2008 5:14PM

I agree with some of what the poster stated. The slow search w/ drill down that don't come off the first search result are a pain. The info, once reached, is good and I like the site.

Adding more servers has helped the site speed greatly.

I'd like to see a set grid (players listed with a grade grid for the 3 grading services w/ grades) that has one click drill down to the summary of activity for that grade.

And, multiple criterial search. Player > Set > Year with "any" or "all" for those big searches by player or set or year.

And how about a "next" button in each set so you can easily scroll through a set from 1 to the end?

nam812 · April 19, 2008 9:47PM

As far as having to click too many time to get to the average price, maybe it can look something like this to avoid an extra step.

The most current sale can still be click-able to see that card's full history, but guys only wanting to see the average of the last 5 sales do not have to click further if they do not want to.

bigfische · April 20, 2008 1:26AM

OK, This comment is OT, but is something i just thought of that i havent heard mentioned before.

Does anyone else think that, slowly but surely, VCP is lowering the prices of graded cards?

I may be way off base but this thought just popped in my head. This is why i think this may be possible- One reason people use VCP so they do not overbid on cards. People also naturally want to get a deal on cards they purchase, so they want to bid lower than average many times to save themselves money. If there is less bids on the upper half of the average sale of a card, the average will slowy drop, especially if people do not get into bidding wars since they know that the card is not "worth" more than the VCP average. If there are less and less bids that do not go above past sales, obvioulsy sales prices would drop in the long term.

I know that may have been hard to follow, but just a random idea that popped into my hung over head. It is also in no way being negative about VCP, just brainstorming a reason for the decline of value in some cards.

Buccaneer · April 20, 2008 1:40AM

Thanks, Bobby, I will come up with a specific list soon and see if it makes sense to you and the users here.

BobbyVCP · April 20, 2008 2:02AM

Buccaneer we welcome your ideas and look forward to them.

In regards to saying VCP is responsible for declining values is a little out there. We will have been live for 2 years coming this June. Last year there was an explosion in prices can you say we had anything to do with that happening? I think not... One of the most important things members have to look at when using the site to make bids is the frequency a card by grade and grader sells. If you are looking for a PSA 8 and our record show only 2 transactions and the last one was 7 months ago you may want to bid a lot higher. When we have a lot of records for a card and they come to auction practically every month then you want to bid conservative because you can almost be assured if you don't win another will come up shortly.

Pete14Rose · April 20, 2008 2:27AM

Does anyone have a link to VCP?

Thanks,
Jay

Elemenopeo · April 20, 2008 2:35AM

Just wanted to add that while I agree that navigation on VCP can be frustrating, I absolutely love the site. It's a huge help to me on a few widely varying collecting projects I've got going, saving me both time and money. And I'm sure the site's only going to become more useful and easier to work with.

Great job, Bobby!

Stone193 · April 20, 2008 2:35AM

<< Does anyone have a link to VCP?

Thanks,
Jay >>

Ask and yea shall receive.

mike

BobbyVCP · April 20, 2008 2:36AM

Thanks..

Here is the link www.vintagecardprices.com

Stone193 · April 20, 2008 2:41AM

<< When we have a lot of records for a card and they come to auction practically every month then you want to bid conservative because you can almost be assured if you don't win another will come up shortly. >>

Bobby

That's an important rule to buying on ebay in general - it keeps me from going nuts.

That and the concept - "one can go broke saving money."

I don't buy enough to need the service, but for those who do? It looks invaluable.

mike

Pete14Rose · April 20, 2008 2:41AM

Thanks Bobby & Mike.

Jay

SKINSFAN · April 20, 2008 2:49AM

Bobby as a member i really would like to see the bin items and ebay store items added ,I know you have heard this question many times but it a huge part of card sales that you are missing.

Any updates ??

Buccaneer · April 20, 2008 3:28AM

The premise focuses on "vintage card prices", as indicated by your site name and by how many people here use the site. To me, there are two basic requirements: 1) get at the vintage card prices of a card as quickly and easily as possible; and 2) get at the vintage card prices of a collection or a want list as quickly and easily as possible. In both cases, the most important feature is to display the information as clearly and comprehensively as possible. If you accept this premise, then here is what I suggest:

1. Your Home page is fine and I like the Search button being highlighted, not to mention an easy link to My VCP with a good drop-down menu.

2. Going to the Search page, I would want to find three searches
- search by specific set (e.g., "1957 Topps")
- search by specific card (e.g., "1957 Topps #20")
- search by specific card grade (e.g., "1957 Topps #20 psa 7")

Functionally, this does not imply that I can type in "1957 Topps #20 psa 7" but a tree search would work like this (using both editable text box and a combo box):
Set
Card
Grade

This would get at the set matrix, the card matrix and the specific grade matrix with minimal clicks.

3. Set Matrix

What I would want to find when I want to look at a set as a whole on the first page are:
- set prices by grade (if applicable). One quick glance to see trends in set prices.
- a listing of each card, with sortable fields, and an editable list of columns showing the average prices. The default matrix would show the popular grading companies and their various grades. You can show probably up to 12-15 columns (assuming you use the full page width with little margins) so I think something like this:

Card# PlayerName PSA6 PSA7 PSA8 PSA9 PSA10 SGC30 SGC40 …. Etc.

Again, with editable fields so users can show PSA 1-5 if they want.

This way I can, at a glance, see vintage card prices for each of the cards in a specific set.

If I want specific information about a card, then each card would be hyperlinked to the Card Matrix.

4. Card Matrix

If I click on a card from the Set Matrix or from a specific card search (e.g., "1957 Topps #20"), then what I would want to see is what RonBurgundy showed above. I would bold the average since that is more important than the last price sold, if you think having last price sold to be important at all. Perhaps instead of last price sold, the high and low would work along side the average.

This way, I just type in my search on the Search page and with one click, I get the information on a specific card.

If I want specific information about a grade for that card, then each grade would be hyperlinked to the Grade Matrix.

5. Grade Matrix

I actually think what is shown now for a specific grade of the card is fine.

Again, from the Search page or from the Set page or from the Card page, I can get at the information about a specific grade for a card with minimal clicks.

6. My VCP – Want Lists

There are two easy ways I would want to create a Want List: 1) on the Card or Grade matrix, Add Card to my want list; or 2) from the Set Matrix, simply provide a check box next to each card and a control to say Add Checked to Want List (or something like that).

Each card in the back-end database would know what set it is in, its card number and other key fields. So now I have a group of cards in my Want List. From the Home page, I can go to my list from the My VCP drop-down menu. In my Want Lists page, I would want to see the following:
- able to sort/view my list by set (or group) or other appropriate sorts/views.
- This is important: to see the same screen as the Set Matrix (with customized columns shown). This way with one click from the Home page, I can see what the average prices are for the cards in my want lists. If I want specific information, then each card would be hyperlinked to the Card Matrix and then to the Grade Matrix.

I think showing current eBay auctions might be useful but I would put that at the bottom of the matrix since the main thing I would want would be the vintage card prices. Also regarding the eBay listing, I would have the ability to filter that, just like I can in eBay. Not exactly sure how that can be done but right now, I can create a better watch list in eBay for the cards in my want lists.

7. My VCP – My Collection

Same thing applies to my collection as to the Want Lists views, want I don’t think there would be any eBay listings.

8. In each of the matrices, I would want the ability to print a full list or export the full list to a .csv file, based on the selection and customized fields I have chosen in the views. In other words, I want to print out my want list for the 1968 Topps showing just the average prices for PSA 6, 7 and 8. Since I already have this view when I go to My VCP – My Want List (I chose to show only these three columns), I would click on the button to export this list.

9. In summary, each of these three matrices can be viewed with minimal button clicks from the Search page or from the My VCP menu. I would want to see the average vintage card prices for each of the cards in a set (as well as the average set prices) with one click, see the same information for My Want List (and My Collection), with the ability to see the detailed information about a card and a grade for a card with one click.

BobbyVCP · April 20, 2008 3:55AM

Skinsfan,

We started covering BIN's and Best Offers sold in a standard time auction format at the start of this year. We have a problem though doing the eBay stores simply because there are over 100,000 cards listed. If we add all the cards to our site it will pollute our current GIN system and marketplace we have created. It will make our site look 10 times worse then dump day on eBay. So until we can come up with a solution to this problem or are given a idea on how to handle this matter I don't think it will be a good to include the stores.

yawie99 · April 20, 2008 11:01AM

This probably goes along with what Buccaneer said, but I'd love to see "Sort By ________" tabs for each card instead of 75 separate links for all the grading company-grade possibilities. The Internets have made us lazy. VCP just requires too much clicking and navigating to access information that could probably be organized on a single page.

mrpeanut39 · April 21, 2008 3:38AM

I'll chime in as a satisfied VCP'er. Have to agree that it takes a lot of clicks to uncover prices you may be trying to find on the run though. However, if you set your watch lists in advance and give yourself time to research, at least you won't go in blindly (Hello SMR).

One feature that I like is the e-mail alerts. With eBay changing their search functions, I know VCP is catching some auctions that aren't showing up in my normal eBay searches. I think the $10 per month is well spent.

clydecoolidge · April 21, 2008 5:25AM

<< I think the $10 per month is well spent. >>

I couldn't agree more!!! I'm very happy with VCP. I guess with all of the years on the internet, clicking links isn't that big of a deal to me as long as the page loads fast enough. I can see if you're in a super hurry to get a price (like at a show on a pda or phone), it would be a big deal, but all-in-all I think VCP is quite good. And ya' gotta love when they're right on top of conversations on a TPG message board and chime in to take suggestions!!! Thanks Bobby!!!

BobbyVCP · April 21, 2008 5:36AM

Appreciate all the positive and will work on the negative. We know the site is only about 80% finished as far as function. We will take the suggestions and put is with the rest of the ideas we have and been given. It will take a little time but we will get to it and make it part of the website.

Thanks,

Bobby

otwcards · April 21, 2008 5:46AM

<< We know the site is only about 80% finished as far as function. >>

Does this mean that we can expect a 20% rebate on our memberships?

otwcards · April 21, 2008 5:49AM

<< As far as having to click too many time to get to the average price, maybe it can look something like this to avoid an extra step.

>>

Without question, Nick has hit it on the head. This feature would be most beneficial and would reduce many needless clicks when searching. I don't see how this feature would be too difficult to program as the information is already available on the site. It just needs to be incorporated and migrated to another location.

smtjoy · April 21, 2008 6:05AM

Another happy VCP user, i do agree with a lot of whats been said- easier searches/lookups would be very nice.

I cant wait till you give us the options to add value to cards that never come up for sale, it's hard when you have 1/1 cards or cards that rarely come for sale and the only value is what you paid not what it might go for in the market. What is the status on those upgrades and when might we expect them?

Disappointed VCP first-timer

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