GSNA Grading Class - CANCELED

astrorat · April 15, 2008 11:25AM

Updated Information

Due to the lack of registration, the Fundamentals of Grading US Coins course scheduled for the GSNA show has been canceled...bummer.

Lane

Hi folks-

Anyone going to the GSNA show? If so, consider the ANA grading course! Here is the info:

ANA SEMINAR
Fundamentals of Grading United States Coins
Learn and understand how U.S. coins should be graded according to the latest American Numismatic Association and market standards during this highly enriched two-day seminar. Gain confidence in evaluating surface marks, strike, luster and eye appeal through interactive discussions, group activities and individual study of hundreds of coins from the ANA grading set.
Instructor: Lane J. Brunner, Ph.D., ANA Summer Seminar instructor
Time and Date: 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. May 16-17
Tuition: $445
$100 discount to members of both the ANA and Garden State Numismatic Association
May 16 - 17, 2008
Somerset Hotel
200 Atrium Dr.
Somerset, NJ

Online Registration

Download Form (PDF)

Hope to see you there!

Lane

tightbudget · April 15, 2008 11:35AM

I'll be there. I don't think I'll be taking the course though.

astrorat · April 15, 2008 11:40AM

Hi Bryan-

Well I hope to say hello sometime during the show. Maybe there are scholarships for YNs through GSNA or ANA. It never hurts to ask.

Lane

1794half1839 · April 15, 2008 12:00PM

I will be there as well, but probably just on Saturday.

dbcoin · April 15, 2008 12:41PM

what are the hours on Saturday? I'll try and stop by with my kids.

DaveG · April 15, 2008 12:53PM

GSNA Show Info

Download the Show Flyer for hours.

astrorat · April 21, 2008 6:16AM

There is still some room available but just a short time left to register. Join the fun!

Lane

astrorat · April 29, 2008 12:40AM

Added to the OP as well...

Updated Information

The GSNA needs more registrants! It seems as if the course will be canceled if there is not a significant increase in registration by Monday, May 5. The organizers need at least 15 students for the course to be held. This is a great opportunity to sharpen your grading skills and learn more about the basics of problem coin detection.

I hope to see you in this class, or at another offering of the course in the near future.

Lane

astrorat · May 5, 2008 2:41AM

The ANA grading course for the GSNA show has been canceled due to low registration.

Updated in the OP as well.

Lane

RWB · May 5, 2008 3:12AM

Very unfortunate to have this cancelled. Too many collectors will pay hundreds or thousands for a coin, trusting only some “service” or a seller’s opinion. They then complain loudly when the coin is not what they expected. Others spend multiples of the value of a common coin because it is in a plastic container with an arbitrary number on it.

Spend the $400, learn something useful about what you buy, and regain control over your own collection.

astrorat · May 5, 2008 3:21AM

I agree, Roger. Besides, the NJ folks are a good group of people and I always enjoy spending time with them.

Lane

njcoincrank · May 5, 2008 12:11PM

Sorry to hear this. I was looking forward to stopping by...

njcoincrank

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 5, 2008 12:31PM

That's too bad

AnkurJ · May 5, 2008 12:39PM

I will be there on Thursday looking for large cents and medals. I wont be taking any classes.

Ankur

Sparkle · May 5, 2008 3:24PM

So why did the course not fly? I find it intriguing and disappointing that this region could not support an ANA course.

To review:
From the GSNA website:

GSNA:

500 members

18 member coin clubs

GSNA annual convention:

May 15-17 in Somerset, NJ

Largest coin show in NJ

Dozens of Dealers of Coins, Currency, Tokens, Medals, Exonumia on 8,000 sq ft Bourse Floor

33rd Annual Convention

ANA Fundamentals of Grading US Coins course was offered May 16 and 17(now cancelled due to lack of registration). It was to be taught by an articulate PhD college professor (now Dean) who is a numismatic expert and former ANA staffer - that's some serious firepower in the classroom plus proven course content and the ANA grading set brought practically to one's front door. I believe that ANA courses have been held in NH in recent years but am not aware of other locations in the New England/NY area.

So why didn't the course fly? The convention is sponsored by the largest numismatic organization in the metro NY area. They've been holding the convention for 33 years. The GSNA has 500 members and they needed just 15 students to run it. One reasons that if any organization in the metro NY area could fill the classroom with 15 or more people, it would be the GSNA, and at this show.

I don't think the low registration was due to people being unwilling to improve their coin grading skills. The coin grading courses consistently fill to capacity (or over) at Summer Seminar, and to learn the material at this convention one doesn't need to fly to Colorado Springs. I'd wager that there are 300 GSNA members who would benefit from the course, if not 400, me included. Maybe that sounds too harsh, but I believe that there is almost always more to learn regarding coin grading. Even if 50% or 75% of the GSNA members are beyond the fundamentals level of grading, that would still leave well over 100 members who would benefit from the course. A bunch of the core members might be volunteering at the convention and not have the available time for the course. There are other things going on at the convention that regular attendees might not want to miss. There might even be a few likely prospects from outside the GSNA- I hear there's a big city about an hour away from the venue.

Seems the course was promoted within the local numismatic community- I forget where I first saw it advertised, but it was also posted here and I received at least one mass email from the ANA about it and a flyer at WESPNEX.

Is the course too expensive? 2 eight-hour days, $345 if you're a GSNA and ANA member, which works out to $21.50 per instructional hour, which is quite reasonable especially when averaged with the number of tuition-free hours that many of us enjoy on this forum, reading, ebay, attending shows, etc. It's all education. True, add in hotel/meals if needed, plus time off from work, child care arrangements, etc.

I considered taking the course but decided against it mostly because of the overlap with the YN program on Saturday, which I didn't want to miss. I wonder if the two-day course commitment was a factor in the low enrollment. If one had wanted to walk the show on Thursday then take the ANA course on Friday and Saturday, that would represent taking two days off from work and three days away from the family.

Anyone else consider taking the course and decide against it? If so, what was your reasoning?

Lane, was there any feedback on why the course didn't fill?

astrorat · May 5, 2008 11:07PM

Hi folks-

Yeah, I was disappointed as well. The course has been held at the GSNA show before with relatively low registration, but apparently this year the club wanted a greater number of people in the class. They are a good group of numismatists and value education.

Lora, the short answer to why it didn't fill is because of the economics to the club. The longer answer is below.

The cancellation really comes down to the economics for the club. Since this is not a state secret (and anyone who inquires can learn this from the ANA), I'll share with you the economics of it.

The club requests the ANA to hold a course for their club (usually in connection with a show) and the provide the ANA with their topic of choice. The ANA contacts someone from their "pool" of instructors to teach the class (the instructors are unpaid volunteers) and if everything aligns, it's a go.

The club agrees to pay a small administrative fee (around $100-200, I forget the exact amount) and the expenses associated with holding the course. These include instructor (and possibly ANA staff member - if they are required to attend as well) travel, lodging and per-diem (up to $55 per day for food, etc); educational room rental; equipment rental (if necessary); and shipping for materials.

The ANA receives the income for the course and reimburses the instructors for their appropriate expenses and, if required, for the other expenses for the course. Then, the "net profit" from the course is split between the club and the ANA. Some clubs use this as a way to raise funds for their club's activities. The ANA uses the "profit" to help support other educational programs.

That's about it...pretty simple.

The general reason why people don't take the course (so they have told me) is that it interferes with the show and, if held before the show, they have to pay more for lodging, etc. Plus, it costs money. That being said, I have never had someone feel that they did not earn more from the experience than the $345 tuition.

I hope that helps people understand a bit more.

Summer Seminar is a different type of program. For a relatively low cost, you also get room and board and essentially pay very little for the actual education. Summer Seminar is way underpriced. Similar professional development type programs for that length of time with that level of expertise cost over $1000 for tuition alone. Yeah, Summer Seminar is an unbelievable bargain yet it only attracts about 200-250 different people per year...less than 1% of the ANA membership. Don't get me started about whether or not the ANA loses money on this venture (although it is a critically important program).

Lora, you make a good point about the cost per hour. If I (or any other experienced instructor) were to charge for their expertise by the hour (based on being an expert consultant), few clubs could afford to hold the course. These programs are also a bargain.

Lane

ScarsdaleCoin · May 5, 2008 11:26PM

On the bright side......

COINFEST will be presenting this same class in November (it's not too far away)

Any of the folks who signed up for the GSNA course can switch right over to register to take the course!!!!

Of course anyone else from the boards, I highly recommend this program! We also have a special room rate at the Hilton Hotel, all the details are available at the website

Coinfest Link

GSNA Grading Class - CANCELED

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