I had my 1968 Mustang restored. Now, I didn't use NOS parts on my run of the mill coupe, but that's ok. A restored Mustang is cool by most. It's not a show car, could never be construed as a show car but will bring someone a ton of enjoyment because the car turned heads and was a blast to drive (carbs and headers kick butt over efi most days!). But, the idea of removing a wrinkle by soaking, steaming, etc, or building up a corner, or trimming a card to remove damage, whether for yourself or for resale as MINT or something higher than it was, is not a cool thing. No matter the feelings individuals on this board have for each other, this seems to be about universal. And to say that it is "only for me" is definitely slippery slope, as Mike alluded to. If it's so good to go from a 1 or 2 ($12) to a 9 or 10 (BIG BUCKS), why keep it? With that kind of cash, you could buy a lot of nice, unaltered stuff, leaving some sucker with a card that isnt what it's advertised to be. That's the seedy side of this HOBBY. If there's a buck to be made, it's gonna happen. Imagine if it's tens of thousands...
Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
you guys read too much into things sometimes, you see conspiracies where there are none. I posed a question, yes I would have liked to have had that card for myself, but it would have bothered me to see that huge crease forever on it. Hence the question about removing the crease.
I guess I should not have answered the posters question about a 9 going from 12-2500 was just an answer to what a card like that would be worth in a 9 it was an honest naive answer to a question and would have ended there.
And yes, the smiley, was a JOKE
I did not buy it, I will wait and pick up a PSA 9 or BGS 9.5 for $2500 will just take a couple of months.
It's 3:00am, I just got home from work, and in a pissy mood
The market currently frowns upon "repairs;" that may or may not always be the case. Below is the official PCGS-Currency position on the issue as it relates to paper-money.
Grading currency is not as simple as it might appear. Grading involves aspects of both art and science. Counting the folds in a piece of currency is a relatively easy task, but determining eye appeal and what a note in a certain grade should "look" like takes time, experience, patience, practice, and a certain level of common sense. While the determination of centering and the broadness of margins seems simple (sometimes deceptively so), there are many gray areas involved in the grading process that are not easily tackled. Paper, even of the high quality used to print U.S. currency, is ultimately a fragile material that is subject to the abuses of circulation, wear, mishandling, aging, or even severe damage or destruction. Because of its pliable and fragile nature, currency has been subject to many attempts (both well-meaning and malicious) to improve notes both in appearance and grade. Some of these attempts are laudable in that otherwise unattractive and non-collectible specimens of great rarity have been restored to an appearance that makes them far more acceptable to collectors. Other attempts at “improvement” have resulted in the effective destruction of many notes.
In between these extremes are the gray areas that are much more difficult to deal with. Good note restorers are sometimes capable of amazing feats, and even the best experts are sometimes hard-pressed to determine what (if any) work has been done to a note. A minor corner bend or light fold can sometimes be removed with careful and skillful work so that even the closest examination cannot reveal its previous existence. Many notes that have been lightly circulated now appear to be fully New or uncirculated, as they have been pressed or ironed out. Pinholes can be filled or closed, handling marks or finger smudges can be erased, ink marks or stains can be lightened or removed entirely, tears or splits can be closed, and virtually any problem can be attacked to improve the appearance or remove its visual signs. Sometimes, the skill with which these repairs or restorations are executed makes detection difficult or even impossible.
The problem is not so much the existence of these gray areas, but their impact on a note’s value. While purists cringe at the fact that many notes that were once AU or even XF are now sold as uncirculated, it boils down to fundamental economics. When a circulated note is pressed and the folds are entirely removed, it again appears “uncirculated.” Because the market currently dictates that most notes are worth more as pressed “uncirculated” notes than in their original state, such restoration is financially rewarded. Any time profit is available the opportunity will be exploited. If the demand remains for such pressed notes, supply will follow and restoration will continue.
In the 1970s and early 1980s many uncirculated notes were pressed out flat as a board to remove the original paper wave and embossing that, at the time, was considered a “defect.” Today, while the proponents of paper originality and embossing seem to be in the majority, this may not always be the case. How one approaches this problem is the basis for a reasonable and consistent grading standard. To ignore the problem would be a disservice to those in the marketplace who currently value originality. To place too much blame or detraction upon those notes that are truly beautiful and highly collectible, yet are not wholly original, would be a disservice. Many estimates of the numbers of large size type notes that have been restored in some fashion or another run so high that the supply of truly original notes might be so low as to preclude their collectibilty.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Hey guys, before you go flaming me, I was asking a simple question $12-$2500 is hypothetical, I was just directly answering the question
I do not have this card in my possesion, but if I did, yes I would want to remove the crease. But that would be, not because I wanted to re-sell it, but to keep it in my PC and just have a great looking card.
I may still pick it up, and have it slabbed as Authentic only, just to have one in my PC >>
it amazes me how how dumb some people think the average person is.
It's the only explanation for a BS answer like this.
Do people really think you can soak a card? Is anyone really stupid enough to put a $2,00 or $3,000 card in a distilled water soloution? That's some funny sit that I would like to watch as the layers come apart.
I would be afraid of doing more damage than good .
If I had the card and it was in my collection and it had the greases , it would just have to stay that way I guess, I see no reason to have to soak it .
Having said that , if that crease were on my car , I would have to have it repaired so I can see some people in the hobby feeling similar about their cards I suppose .
<< <i>Do people really think you can soak a card? Is anyone really stupid enough to put a $2,00 or $3,000 card in a distilled water soloution? That's some funny sit that I would like to watch as the layers come apart. >>
That is what I have always wondered, how could one ever get a cardboard material wet and keep it from falling apart, let alone make it better in condition??
Comments
But, the idea of removing a wrinkle by soaking, steaming, etc, or building up a corner, or trimming a card to remove damage, whether for yourself or for resale as MINT or something higher than it was, is not a cool thing. No matter the feelings individuals on this board have for each other, this seems to be about universal.
And to say that it is "only for me" is definitely slippery slope, as Mike alluded to. If it's so good to go from a 1 or 2 ($12) to a 9 or 10 (BIG BUCKS), why keep it? With that kind of cash, you could buy a lot of nice, unaltered stuff, leaving some sucker with a card that isnt what it's advertised to be.
That's the seedy side of this HOBBY. If there's a buck to be made, it's gonna happen. Imagine if it's tens of thousands...
I posed a question, yes I would have liked to have had that card for myself, but it would have bothered me to see that huge crease forever on it. Hence the question about removing the crease.
I guess I should not have answered the posters question about a 9
going from 12-2500 was just an answer to what a card like that would be worth in a 9
it was an honest naive answer to a question and would have ended there.
And yes, the smiley, was a JOKE
I did not buy it, I will wait and pick up a PSA 9 or BGS 9.5 for $2500
will just take a couple of months.
It's 3:00am, I just got home from work, and in a pissy mood
Below is the official PCGS-Currency position on the issue as it relates to paper-money.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Grading currency is not as simple as it might appear. Grading involves aspects of both art and science. Counting the folds in a piece of currency is a relatively easy task, but determining eye appeal and what a note in a certain grade should "look" like takes time, experience, patience, practice, and a certain level of common sense. While the determination of centering and the broadness of margins seems simple (sometimes deceptively so), there are many gray areas involved in the grading process that are not easily tackled. Paper, even of the high quality used to print U.S. currency, is ultimately a fragile material that is subject to the abuses of circulation, wear, mishandling, aging, or even severe damage or destruction. Because of its pliable and fragile nature, currency has been subject to many attempts (both well-meaning and malicious) to improve notes both in appearance and grade. Some of these attempts are laudable in that otherwise unattractive and non-collectible specimens of great rarity have been restored to an appearance that makes them far more acceptable to collectors. Other attempts at “improvement” have resulted in the effective destruction of many notes.
In between these extremes are the gray areas that are much more difficult to deal with. Good note restorers are sometimes capable of amazing feats, and even the best experts are sometimes hard-pressed to determine what (if any) work has been done to a note. A minor corner bend or light fold can sometimes be removed with careful and skillful work so that even the closest examination cannot reveal its previous existence. Many notes that have been lightly circulated now appear to be fully New or uncirculated, as they have been pressed or ironed out. Pinholes can be filled or closed, handling marks or finger smudges can be erased, ink marks or stains can be lightened or removed entirely, tears or splits can be closed, and virtually any problem can be attacked to improve the appearance or remove its visual signs. Sometimes, the skill with which these repairs or restorations are executed makes detection difficult or even impossible.
The problem is not so much the existence of these gray areas, but their impact on a note’s value. While purists cringe at the fact that many notes that were once AU or even XF are now sold as uncirculated, it boils down to fundamental economics. When a circulated note is pressed and the folds are entirely removed, it again appears “uncirculated.” Because the market currently dictates that most notes are worth more as pressed “uncirculated” notes than in their original state, such restoration is financially rewarded. Any time profit is available the opportunity will be exploited. If the demand remains for such pressed notes, supply will follow and restoration will continue.
In the 1970s and early 1980s many uncirculated notes were pressed out flat as a board to remove the original paper wave and embossing that, at the time, was considered a “defect.” Today, while the proponents of paper originality and embossing seem to be in the majority, this may not always be the case. How one approaches this problem is the basis for a reasonable and consistent grading standard. To ignore the problem would be a disservice to those in the marketplace who currently value originality. To place too much blame or detraction upon those notes that are truly beautiful and highly collectible, yet are not wholly original, would be a disservice. Many estimates of the numbers of large size type notes that have been restored in some fashion or another run so high that the supply of truly original notes might be so low as to preclude their collectibilty.
<< <i>Hey guys, before you go flaming me, I was asking a simple question
$12-$2500 is hypothetical, I was just directly answering the question
I do not have this card in my possesion, but if I did, yes I would want to remove the crease. But that would be, not because I wanted to re-sell it, but to keep it in my PC and just have a great looking card.
I may still pick it up, and have it slabbed as Authentic only, just to have one in my PC >>
it amazes me how how dumb some people think the average person is.
It's the only explanation for a BS answer like this.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
If I had the card and it was in my collection and it had the greases , it would just have to stay that way I guess, I see no reason to have to soak it .
Having said that , if that crease were on my car , I would have to have it repaired so I can see some people in the hobby feeling similar about their cards I suppose .
<< <i>Do people really think you can soak a card? Is anyone really stupid enough to put a $2,00 or $3,000 card in a distilled water soloution? That's some funny sit that I would like to watch as the layers come apart.
That is what I have always wondered, how could one ever get a cardboard material wet and keep it from falling apart, let alone make it better in condition??
I'd be too afraid it would turn into mush right before my eyes .