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Best pitcher of this era ?
jaxxr
Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
Generally considered the best starting pitchers of recent times are;
Alpha order= Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, and Pedro Martinez.
There are many stats, situations, and opinions, to make a case for any of them, as the best.
Without starting into piles of numbers, at the begining, I'll select Pedro M. as the best.
Any other thoughts ??
Alpha order= Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, and Pedro Martinez.
There are many stats, situations, and opinions, to make a case for any of them, as the best.
Without starting into piles of numbers, at the begining, I'll select Pedro M. as the best.
Any other thoughts ??
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/s/ JackWESQ
I was at Yankee stadium one night and after (I think) hitting a batter and giving up a hit he retired 27 straight batters
striking out 17!
The list you made could also include Schilling.
Steve
Clemens
Maddux
Martinez
Johnson
and to be honest it's close among all four and you could probably interchange names on this list and no matter what order it would look good.....as for a reliever I would go with Mariano Rivera even though I'm not a Yankees fan.
then clemens
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<< <i>I don't think you can put Clemens on that list now that we know he didn't achieve his stats naturally. >>
Unless you stuck needles into Clemens' rear, you don't "know" anything.
As for this era, I would go with:
Clemens
Oswalt
Unit
The Professor
Pedro
I would put pedro at the top..
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>oswalt? c'mon! He is very, very good, but smoltz belongs on this list before oswalt. >>
Nuh-uh!
Roy is better cuz I said so.
So there.
Modern day $ussies.
Peace
45% complete.
Career wins, longevity, superior fielding, amazingly low BB allowed... and, almost the most impressive is that until the last few years (especially in Chicago 2004-06), he gave up very few HR's in an era where juiced up guys belted more HR's than at any other time in baseball history. Maddux... hands down!
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Maddux
Clemens
Johnson
Pedro
Smoltz
Glavine
Picks left Player W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
1. G Maddux* 347 214 3.11 711 707 109 35 0 --- 4814.1 4522 1876 1665 332 131 969 3273
2. T Glavine* 303 199 3.51 669 669 56 25 0 --- 4350.0 4231 1860 1695 345 65 1463 2570
3. R Johnson* 284 150 3.22 566 556 98 37 2 --- 3855.1 3065 1556 1381 368 182 1422 4616
4. P Martinez* 209 93 2.80 447 380 46 17 3 --- 2673.2 2046 918 833 213 131 708 3030
5. J Smoltz* 207 145 3.26 702 461 53 16 154 --- 3367.0 2954 1328 1221 275 54 984 2975
just to put all of these guys next to each other.
I still gotta give the edge to Pedro for most dominant. If you pitch for 16 seasons and still have an era under 3.00, you are a bad man. Maddux is also very easy to pick at #1, could go either way.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
these other guys due to injuries but.............
in his prime, when he was healthy he was the best
pitcher hands down.
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Collecting 1970-1979 PSA 9 & 10 Baseball Cards
Best pitcher for 10 seasons, Maddox, easily. He will get about as much respect as Warren Spahn (viritually none) when it's all said and done which is a shame as they might be the 2 best pitchers of all time.
Steve
I think it was during the strike yr.
Not only could he pitch but he could also field his pos. too.
With all that said I'm still in favor of Pedro, not by much mind you.
The list of 4 or 5 guys could interchange.
Steve
The answer to the question really falls down two ways.
1) The pitcher who saved the most runs from his pitching is Clemens.
2) Pedro Martinez is the guy who saved runs at the greatest RATE....but his lack of IP(even in his dominant seasons) means his value to his team is lessened compared to a guy who saved runs at a smidge less rate, but did it over 40 more IP per season.
For instance, when Maddux led the league three straight years in ERA, he also led the league those three years in IP. Two of those seasons were strike years, which hurts his runs saved total.
So if you are paying Pedro 15 Million, you better ear mark a hefty sum for a good set up man and closer too! Of course, like a poster said above, a closer is needed for pretty much all the guys from this era.
A solid case can be made for each.
However,
Using a traditional way of judging a pitcher, his W-L percentage;
Pedro ( despite a few Expo sesons ) = .692, Clemens = .658, Maddux = .619
Using a more modern method, Adjusted ERA +;
Perdo has the best career mark of all time, tops even Lefty Grove and Walter Johnson,
Pedro has the best single seasom mark ever, of any pitcher, post 1900
Just feel Pedro is the ace moundsman of his time.
Enjoying everyones opinion.
Stoney
For Sale
<< <i>I think it should be best starters of this era. Aren't any pitchers left. Pitchers used to complete games, not come out after hitting a pitch count.
Modern day $ussies.
Peace >>
What about pitchers from previous generations who would pace themselves through the course of the game? That has to be seen as even worse than giving way to a fresh and stronger arm
Modern day $ussies who win is always superior to macho players who lose
Top 10 of this generation in order
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Martinez
Glavine
Schilling
Mussina
Brown
Smoltz
Funny to think that Clemens was at one time seen as the top pitcher of the generation that included Saberhagen and Gooden. It is mind boggling to think anyone could have about eight seasons where he was the best pitcher in the league, and another six or seven where he would be the ace on most teams in the league, and another six or seven where he was still very good, perhaps even All-Star level. That is definitely ahead of Maddux, even if only slightly
It seems clear that Clemens used drugs, but as always, Major League Baseball gave him permission to do so even if the government said he shouldn't. I wonder what was going on in the minds of players who chose not to, were they unaware or did they know they had the option but did not. And was it because they valued their health or they didn't want to break the law. To me, the possibility that some of his competition didn't know enough about illegal activies to make a choide is enough of an issue to drop him below Walter Johnson on any All-Time list, but no further than that
Martinez had the best two consecutive in history in 99 and 00 (and probably best three consecutive seasons also). But the three ahead of him on the list have the most Cy Young awards in history and pitched an additional 1 000 or 2 000 innings
Give Smoltz credit for the four years he was a reliever and he is ahead of Schilling
As a pitcher Rivera would rank fifth ahead of Glavine
<< <i>I don't think you can put Clemens on that list now that we know he didn't achieve his stats naturally. >>
Having arm surgery in your 20s is not natural either but is a part of the game for this generation. . .
Maddux. I have see this guy pitch alot over the years, and he is incredible.
Pinpoint control and a great 2 seam fastball. Maybe the best one ever.
He'll throw the same 2 pitches over and over, and you still can't hit him.
<< <i>
Modern day $ussies who win is always superior to macho players who lose
Top 10 of this generation in order
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Martinez
Glavine
Schilling
Mussina
Brown
Smoltz
>>
No way you can put schilling, mussina, or brown ahead of smoltz.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>
<< <i>
Modern day $ussies who win is always superior to macho players who lose
Top 10 of this generation in order
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Martinez
Glavine
Schilling
Mussina
Brown
Smoltz
>>
No way you can put schilling, mussina, or brown ahead of smoltz. >>
In about 7 years, there's going to be a really stupid argument about whether Smoltz should be in the HOF. He is an absolute no doubter in my mind. People will look at his career stats and say that he didn't win enough and his ERA was a touch high. That guy is the man. He was always huge in big games and he dominated parts of his career as a starter AND as a closer. In my eyes, he's #4 on the list of guys from the current era behind Maddux, Clemens and Randy Johnson. Ill even put him ahead of Glavine (just because of big game antics). I think the same argument will be had about Schilling, but everyone forgets that if those Phillis teams that he pitched for, for 6-7 years, STUNK. He could have won 15-25 more games than his career stats will show.
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<< <i>No way you can put schilling, mussina, or brown ahead of smoltz. >>
If you discount four of Smoltz' great years you can. And I already did write that if you include his years as a reliever he is better than those three. The original question was ambiguous, perhaps purposely so, when it asked for best starting pitcher