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Die Characteristics for the SLQ type 1
habaraca
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I have a very worn SLQ with date and rim flat.
I can tell from the reverse it is a type 1 no stars, but that is all.
I know the 16 has some identifiable die characteristics, like head into beading etc. that differ from the 17
I once had a chart that showed he differences but can't find it.
Anyone have a list or chart etc. showing the differences in the 16 and the 17 type 1.
Thanks
I can tell from the reverse it is a type 1 no stars, but that is all.
I know the 16 has some identifiable die characteristics, like head into beading etc. that differ from the 17
I once had a chart that showed he differences but can't find it.
Anyone have a list or chart etc. showing the differences in the 16 and the 17 type 1.
Thanks
0
Comments
Check out Steve's web link below for all the associated images.
STRIKE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THE 1916-P AND THE 1917-P.D. AND S TYPE 1 STANDING LIBERTY QUARTERS :
STRIKE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THE 1916-P AND THE 1917-P.D. AND S TYPE 1 STANDING LIBERTY QUARTERS :
by Steven J. Sabatino, owner, SLQ Coins (08/2005)
It seems that a coin show does not go by without a visitor bringing up the ever-so popular conversation about the distinctions in striking elements between the high profile 1916-P Standing Liberty Quarter and the 1917-Standing Liberty Quarters produced at the three functional mints of that era. Inevitably, the discussion ultimately evolves into the identifying of a dateless 1916-P as opposed to a dateless 1917-P Standing Liberty Quarter. The topic of "dateless" 1916-P Standing Liberty Quarters only seems natural to collectors as the prices being realized for such "worn" or "dateless" representatives has reached near four-digits in magnitude while the 1917-P Dateless Type #1 quarter is fundamentally worthless beyond face value and silver content. Please be aware that ANACS does grade and authenticate "dateless" 1916-P Standing Quarters.
In this article, we have imaged four obverse regions of striking element distinctions between the 1916 and 1917 (Type #1) Standing Liberty Quarters. The 1916-P Standing Liberty Quarter used for imaging-graphics in this comparison was graded NGC-65 Full Head (serial #2057870-001) while the 1917 Type #1 Standing Liberty Quarter was generated at the San Francisco Mint (1917-S #1) and also graded NGC-65 Full Head (serial #1782786-001). One must obviously be aware that when attempting to identify a "dateless" 1916-P Standing Liberty Quarter, no mint mark will be present as all reported 52,000 pieces were produced at the Philadelphia mint - thus not carrying any mint mark.
For purposes of definition, Images #1,3,5 and 7 (always appearing left to the viewer), are of the 1916-P Standing Liberty Quarter graded NGC-65 Full Head. Images #2,4,6 and 8 (always appearing right to the viewer) are of the 1917-S Type #1 also graded NGC-65 Full Head. Images #1 & #2, #3 & #4 #5 & #6, and #7 & #8 will always be "paired" (left & right) as they depict comparative "Striking Distinctions" between the two "Type 1" deliveries - the 1916 and 1917 (P, D, or S).
Images #1 and #2 (located at the end of this paragraph) show obvious distinctions between the gowns as they "fold" atop the platform where Miss Liberty stands. The 1916-P gown appears wider in scope at the bottom attachment of the gown to the platform, and the gown also attaches to the foot (right foot of Liberty, left to the observer) at the approximate position of foot's "outside" near the "outside" ankle bone - appearing as if the gown itself is attached to the foot-ankle area. The 1917 #1 gown appears narrower in scope, bending upwards at both the gown-sides at more acute angles, and the gown itself does not attach to the side of the foot-ankle area as can be seen on the 1916. This distinction in gown positioning is also very distinct on severely worn dateless specimens permitting a reference point to call upon when determining whether an unknown Type #1 Philadelphia specimen is of the 1916 or 1917 die origin.
Images #3 and #4 (located at the end of this paragraph) show obvious distinctions with the head detailing of the two deliveries. The 1916 (Image #3) demonstrates a very pronounced and bold single hair strand (or spike) projecting from the back of the head region with only a hint of a second, more recessive hair strand (or spike) barely visible - even at this lofty grade. The 1917 (Image #4) demonstrates two very pronounced and bold hair strands (or spikes) clearly distinguishable one from the other. On very worn specimens, this distinction should also be very obvious.
Images #5 and #6 (located at the end of this paragraph) show obvious distinctions in the positioning of the gown running horizontally along the top ship-boarding extending towards the right-hand (left to the viewer) of Miss Liberty. The 1916 (Image #5) shows the gown extending towards the right-hand running across the top and falling somewhat behind (not in front) of the top ship-board railing. The 1917 (Image #6) also shows the gown extending towards the right-hand of Miss Liberty but appears to fall in front of the top ship-board railing. This distinction would probably be less diagnostic when examining well-worn dateless specimens.
Images #7 and #8 (located at the end of this paragraph) show distinctions in the size and clarity of shield details between the 1916 and 1917. The 1916 shield, even at this lofty grade, displays strike weakness with lack of clarity to shield rivets and inner shield lines. The 1917 shield displays very strong striking elements including strong rivets and inner shield lines. The 1916 also displays a somewhat difference in size and shape as opposed to the 1917. Again, these elements are more difficult and less useful diagnostics when attempting to authenticate a dateless 1916.
Many more diagnostic differences have been published in several of the more known texts available to readers in the numismatic arena. Two such references available which dwell into differences in strike elements of the 1916 and 1917 Type 1 Standing Liberty Quarter are: (a) Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, by Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS), second edition, March 2004, and Standing Liberty Quarters, by J.H. Cline, Third Edition, 1997. Both texts are readily available to collectors.
I hope the readers of this article have benefited from its content and that you are successful in locating a dateless 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter when rummaging through a box of dateless Type 1 Standing Liberty Quarters. Needless to say, one could use a dateless D or S mint type-1 1917 as a definite indicator as to what the diagnostics are for 1917's, without question, when comparing to a dateless Philadelphia strike that could very well be the elusive 1916. Regardless of your purpose, enjoy the hunt and satisfaction of collecting. Regards: Steven J. Sabatino, owner, SLQ Coins
Also this article by James Garcia from Early US is sensational!
Full head? What about a full shield?
Figured better act quick as you don't want to mess with a groundhog who has a laser sight on his .45!
I have always said that the 1916 should be classified as a separate type, because the 16 and 17 design differences are significant. With a little bit of knowledge, you will have no trouble differentiating between the 16 and 17 in any grade.