I'm simply STUNNED by the prices Mint and Expoe medals are bringing at Long Beach!

BECOKA · February 14, 2008 5:55AM

If you would stop posting all those cool medals maybe not so many people would be getting into them.

Bochiman · February 14, 2008 6:03AM

I hope they keep exploding and more and more people want them....maybe then, they will sell their coins for funds and stop bidding up other coins

DUIGUY · February 14, 2008 6:10AM

<< If you would stop posting all those cool medals maybe not so many people would be getting into them.

>>

Good point.

291fifth · February 14, 2008 6:13AM

I just read in Numismatic News that the Coin & Currency Institute is reissuing the Hibbler & Kappen So-Called Dollars book. So-Called dollars seem to be on a real roll!

richardshipp · February 14, 2008 6:19AM

Guilty

jonathanb · February 14, 2008 7:03AM

I had my eye on one of the mint medals that happens to be a very rare (but equally obscure) subtype. A normal one usually sells for $50-100, and I wouldn't have minded landing a rare one for a small premium. It sold for $700. Oddly, a normal one sold in a different lot also for $700. It looks like the rare one got no premium over the common one, and both sold for 10x what they should have.

Weird.

On the other hand, the US Mint-made Indian Peace medals sold more or less "normal", and the US Mint military (MI-) and naval (NA-) medals even sold on the cheap side.

tmot99 · February 14, 2008 7:51AM

Yes, this auction appears to be doing MUCH better than the September Long Beach did. However, they had WAY too much material on September and people had to spread money thinly.

jmski52 · February 14, 2008 7:58AM

I almost bought my first old medal at the St. Louis Show - an 1809 Napoleonic Bust in high relief in silver. I had no idea how much to pay. Some of your medals are quite enticing as well.

Barndog · February 14, 2008 8:21AM

so many of the Naval medals had distracting "problems" that I only bid on two...and was blown out of the water. Pun intended.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 14, 2008 8:23AM

by the time I hear about it , it's already doubled in price

richardshipp · February 14, 2008 8:31AM

Well... this is what I won in todays auction. I was working in the dark as it was kind of hard for me to determine what I wanted to bid. I looked at all of them I could find on the Heritage Archives; ebay; and anywhere else... seems they are all over the board. So my approach was more on the line of.... what would I be willing to pay not being sure what it was even worth. As it was, it took my proxy max bid to win. I'm ok with that, but don't have any idea if that was a fair price or not. I think I'll be happy to own it... just to look at it.... and that's the part of the hobby I enjoy the most anyway.

Bear · February 14, 2008 8:50AM

I won two of the four lots I bid on.

1. HK-425 1915 Panama Pacific Slug

2. One ounce silver Humbert fifty Dollar
Octogonal Slug.

ambro51 · February 14, 2008 8:59AM

Im happy, won what I was after an 1860 R. Lovett Jr engraver and die sinker store card. looking much like the Confederate Cent which he also produced, I couldnt find a value to base a bid on. So I put a large absentee bid, and out distanced the floor bidder to win at $325. Quite happy!

hiijacker · February 14, 2008 9:23AM

<< Well... this is what I won in todays auction. I was working in the dark as it was kind of hard for me to determine what I wanted to bid. I looked at all of them I could find on the Heritage Archives; ebay; and anywhere else... seems they are all over the board. So my approach was more on the line of.... what would I be willing to pay not being sure what it was even worth. As it was, it took my proxy max bid to win. I'm ok with that, but don't have any idea if that was a fair price or not. I think I'll be happy to own it... just to look at it.... and that's the part of the hobby I enjoy the most anyway.

>>

I think there were two fools bidding on this because I was your underbidder. I did the same thing as you, not knowing what this is worth, just liked the look of it, he prices seemed all over the board, so I just decided to stop bidding.

coindeuce · February 14, 2008 9:33AM

Me three. Some schmuck sniped the 1867 Jesse Ketchum medal from me. I've been collecting them for a while now, and this was probably the first and only bronze strike I had a shot at. The gold strikes are impossible to find, and the silvers are getting harder by the day.

FWIW rshipp: the H-K 222 has realized very strong prices when certified by NGC in higher grades, i.e. PR-66/67CAM. Uncertified examples are still very desirable for this issue, but since so many of these have appeared in relatively high state of preservation, the TPG opinion seems to be drawing most of the money.

Coinosaurus · February 14, 2008 9:56AM

Not surprising - it is getting harder and harder to find cool things in the regular US series - with medals you can get something very rare and historic for not much money, relatively speaking. Plus in many cases it is a lot more aesthetically pleasing, too.

richardshipp · February 14, 2008 9:57AM

<< Me three. Some schmuck sniped the 1867 Jesse Ketchum medal from me. I've been collecting them for a while now, and this was probably the first and only bronze strike I had a shot at. The gold strikes are impossible to find, and the silvers are getting harder by the day.

FWIW rshipp: the H-K 222 has realized very strong prices when certified by NGC in higher grades, i.e. PR-66/67CAM. Uncertified examples are still very desirable for this issue, but since so many of these have appeared in relatively high state of preservation, the TPG opinion seems to be drawing most of the money.

>>

Thanks for the info.

tmot99 · February 14, 2008 9:58AM

<< Me three. Some schmuck sniped the 1867 Jesse Ketchum medal from me. I've been collecting them for a while now, and this was probably the first and only bronze strike I had a shot at. The gold strikes are impossible to find, and the silvers are getting harder by the day.

FWIW rshipp: the H-K 222 has realized very strong prices when certified by NGC in higher grades, i.e. PR-66/67CAM. Uncertified examples are still very desirable for this issue, but since so many of these have appeared in relatively high state of preservation, the TPG opinion seems to be drawing most of the money.

>>

I'd agree with this comment on the HK-222. I had a bid on it at $200 and obviously outbid. I don' think you got burned, but you certainly didn't get a rip, unless it grades out at 67 or better. You can buy them for $200-$300 in original round boxes fairly regularly. This particular medal, in aluminum, is VERY popular. Being popular, they are starting to come out of the vaults from everywhere. Once they've been graded, 65's bring around $500. I've seen 67s originally go from $1000 down to $600-$700. There have been 10 67s graded by NGC. Given that there are many many in original boxes still available, it's likely that others will be graded at this level continuing to drop the price.

It's still a classic and probably one of the most widely recognized so-called dollars. I was fortunate to purchase an original roll of 20 of these in 2007. They will forever stay as an original roll.

coindeuce · February 14, 2008 10:03AM

Surprisingly so though, one of the highlights of the sale didn't hammer. The H-K 1031 Gold Wilson Dollar is offered post auction BIN for $25.3K. Go figure.

tmot99 · February 14, 2008 10:07AM

<< Surprisingly so though, one of the highlights of the sale didn't hammer. The H-K 1031 Gold Wilson Dollar is offered post auction BIN for $25.3K. Go figure. >>

That doesn't surprise me. Most collectors of this kind of high end rare material only want them if they are "unharmed". This one being a previous mount, was likely to have a problem being sold. We know from recent sales what a decent one can sell for, but what do you price a mounted one at??????

coindeuce · February 14, 2008 10:10AM

Considering that I was chastised for my pre sale estimate of 30K as being too low, I feel vindicated now. Maybe if it had been offered on "The Price is Right"....

Longacre · February 14, 2008 10:13AM

Tell me about it. Has RYK started collecting these and driving up the market?

jabba · February 14, 2008 10:35AM

You dont have to tell me, my bids got there azz kicked all day!

jonathanb · February 14, 2008 10:36AM

Coindeuce: the Ketchum medal went to rosgreco on eBay. He's been buying every one that appears. See his web site here

coindeuce · February 14, 2008 10:57AM

Thanks J.B. I figured if anyone were to outbid me, it would be him. He has a standing buy ad in the Buffalo Evening News. I know of one other strong buyer of these(which makes three of us), however I would not compromise the confidentiality of this indivdual if I want to survive.

Kareemofwheat · February 14, 2008 11:19AM

are these medals you are discussing in the MS65 and up area? I haven't paid much attention but I will say the art work is far superior to any mint coin.

DrSynergy · March 5, 2008 12:06PM

DrSynergy · March 5, 2008 12:23PM

I was the buyer of the bronze 49 mm Jesse Ketchum medal. Do any of you know, for sure, why the large bronze JK medals (likely 11 were minted, inferring from Julian's book) were minted (1873-1876)? To whom were they given? Since they have no number in exergue, they were not awarded to students. I have access to the main minutes of the Jesse Ketchum Memorial Committee, and I never saw a mention of the large (or small) bronze medals minted in the 1870s. I am just guessing that they were struck to show to local Buffalo politicians and new members of the Jesse Ketchum Memorial Committee. I am writing a small book on the medals and the 12000+ medal winners, and I would welcome an answer to this one question and to several others. I recently completed the computerization of the information on the medal winners from 1873-2001, and I am willing to provide information on the winners to collectors that hold JK medals (as long as this task does not become overly tedious). I plan to put this information into a website sometime during 2008.

jonathanb · March 5, 2008 2:44PM

I have records of several sales of bronze Ketchum medals.

The Stack's Fixed Price List for 1991 included three bronze versions in both sizes, all unnumbered, all described as trial strikes. Item 116 was 49mm diameter, 5mm thick. Item 117 was 49mm diameter, 3mm thick. Item 119 was 35mm diamter, 2.5mm thick. All of them were listed as "Ex Charles E. Barber Estate." FWIW, item 114 in that price list was a 48mm version in gold (numbered 37), item 115 was 49mm silver numbered 144, item 118 was 35mm silver numbered 152. and item 120 was a unique galvano of the Seated Buffalo City Goddess, 140mm wide.

A large size bronze was sold as lot 445 in the 1/10/1969 Hollinbeck Kagen sale.

A large size bronze was sold as lot 368 in the 12/1989 Presidential sale, unnumbered.

A large size bronze was sold as lot 422 in the 12/1990 Presidential sale, unnumbered. This was apparently a different specimen than the previous.

A large size bronze was sold as lot 8111 in the 2/14/2008 Heritage sale, as discussed earlier in this thread.

A large size gold was sold as lot 341 in the 5/1997 Presidential sale. It was numbered "M 25 A"

A small size bronze was sold as lot 1626 in the 8/2000 Presidential sale. It was numbered 3730, so if you have records you might be able to figure out who that one went to.

Except for the ones that appeared together in the Stack's FPL and are clearly separate pieces, I don't know how many unique specimens are in the list above.

denga · March 6, 2008 1:16AM

DrSynergy March 05, 2008

I was the buyer of the bronze 49 mm Jesse Ketchum medal. Do any of you know, for sure, why the large bronze JK medals (likely 11 were minted, inferring from Julian's book) were minted (1873-1876)? To whom were they given? Since they have no number in exergue, they were not awarded to students. I have access to the main minutes of the Jesse Ketchum Memorial Committee, and I never saw a mention of the large (or small) bronze medals minted in the 1870s. I am just guessing that they were struck to show to local Buffalo politicians and new members of the Jesse Ketchum Memorial Committee. I am writing a small book on the medals and the 12000+ medal winners, and I would welcome an answer to this one question and to several others. I recently completed the computerization of the information on the medal winners from 1873-2001, and I am willing to provide information on the winners to collectors that hold JK medals (as long as this task does not become overly tedious). I plan to put this information into a website sometime during 2008.

-------------------------
DrSynergy00001`

You are probably correct that they were struck for special purposes, including samples for committee members.
One would also think that such medals would have been used for display, so that potential winners could see
what they might receive.

For one of the medals I have "1" marked in the exergue. I think it was the large size but would have to check,
if you are interested.

Denga

mrearlygold · March 6, 2008 1:43AM

I got one

MadMarty · March 6, 2008 1:47AM

<< Well... this is what I won in todays auction. I was working in the dark as it was kind of hard for me to determine what I wanted to bid. I looked at all of them I could find on the Heritage Archives; ebay; and anywhere else... seems they are all over the board. So my approach was more on the line of.... what would I be willing to pay not being sure what it was even worth. As it was, it took my proxy max bid to win. I'm ok with that, but don't have any idea if that was a fair price or not. I think I'll be happy to own it... just to look at it.... and that's the part of the hobby I enjoy the most anyway.

>>

What size is it???

pontiacinf · March 6, 2008 1:53AM

<< I won two of the four lots I bid on.

1. HK-425 1915 Panama Pacific Slug

2. One ounce silver Humbert fifty Dollar
Octogonal Slug. >>

nice pickups bear

Walmann · March 6, 2008 2:05AM

I'm not a medal collect myself, but my dad passed away and inherited a Wilson Dollar HK-449 graded by NGC. Being at the office I don't recall the grade but is either a AU58 or a low MS.

The sources I usually use for coins are not giving any information on this medal(?). Web search engines are not returning any hits either. Any of you know any info on this medal? I noticed the mention of a gold Wilson Dollar, but this one is silver.

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to post the question in.

Bear · March 6, 2008 2:14AM

Collecting of medals and SCDs is changing.

Where in the past, folks were content to collect

average or circ examples now it is the finest known

condition. The problem is that no one is sure what

the premiums should be on these uber grade coins.

Another issue, is the matter of pricing for PL and PL UCAM

examples of various SCDs. Again, it is a matter of guess

work, as there are no price guides on such items. These may

well be under priced on today's market.

I find that the facsimile of the 50 dollar gold slugs, seem very

under priced in grades of MS-65 and 66.

DrSynergy · March 6, 2008 4:54AM

Denga: If the JK medal is a bronze, 36mm or 49 mm, with a "1" in exergue, this is likley just a practice strike to see how the stamped font appeared. However, if the Jesse Ketchum medal is gold or solver, it is likely that you have the first of its kind awarded to a student. If you tell me the size and the metal, I can provide the awardee.

DrSynergy · March 6, 2008 5:03AM

jonathonb: I am most grateful for the info you provided on the Jesse Ketchum medals. It never occurred to me that there may have been more bronze medals without numbers that the engravers kept for themselves! The small bronze medals with numbers like 3090, etc, were awarded in 1946, 1947, 1950-present. They are somewhat easy to obtain from the winners themselves, especially since 1990. Thanks again.

Since I have several more questions that collectors of JK medals might be able to answer, I plan to start a new thread on the topic.

DUIGUY · March 6, 2008 5:43AM

<< I'm not a medal collect myself, but my dad passed away and inherited a Wilson Dollar HK-449 graded by NGC. Being at the office I don't recall the grade but is either a AU58 or a low MS.

The sources I usually use for coins are not giving any information on this medal(?). Web search engines are not returning any hits either. Any of you know any info on this medal? I noticed the mention of a gold Wilson Dollar, but this one is silver.

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to post the question in. >>

In AU 58 I would say $400.00 to $500.00 range, provided it was not a sea salvage example. IMHO.

ziggy29 · March 6, 2008 5:44AM

Frankly, going back to the title of the thread, I don't know why moon money for anything stuns people any more.

richardshipp · March 6, 2008 6:12AM

<< 

<< Well... this is what I won in todays auction. I was working in the dark as it was kind of hard for me to determine what I wanted to bid. I looked at all of them I could find on the Heritage Archives; ebay; and anywhere else... seems they are all over the board. So my approach was more on the line of.... what would I be willing to pay not being sure what it was even worth. As it was, it took my proxy max bid to win. I'm ok with that, but don't have any idea if that was a fair price or not. I think I'll be happy to own it... just to look at it.... and that's the part of the hobby I enjoy the most anyway.

What size is it??? >>

36.5 MM according to HA. I didn't measure it.

Walmann · March 6, 2008 6:35AM

<< 

<< In AU 58 I would say $400.00 to $500.00 range, provided it was not a sea salvage example. IMHO.

>>

Much thanks for the info, any recommendations on websites where I can find iout more about this medal?

DUIGUY · March 6, 2008 6:55AM

<< 

<< 

<< In AU 58 I would say $400.00 to $500.00 range, provided it was not a sea salvage example. IMHO.

>>

Much thanks for the info, any recommendations on websites where I can find iout more about this medal? >>

Forum members tmot99's SC$ site

tmot99 · March 7, 2008 5:25AM

<< 

<< I'm not a medal collect myself, but my dad passed away and inherited a Wilson Dollar HK-449 graded by NGC. Being at the office I don't recall the grade but is either a AU58 or a low MS.

The sources I usually use for coins are not giving any information on this medal(?). Web search engines are not returning any hits either. Any of you know any info on this medal? I noticed the mention of a gold Wilson Dollar, but this one is silver.

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to post the question in. >>

In AU 58 I would say $400.00 to $500.00 range, provided it was not a sea salvage example. IMHO.

>>

I'd say this is a bit high given recent sales.

denga · March 7, 2008 6:58AM

DrSynergy March 06, 2008

Denga: If the JK medal is a bronze, 36mm or 49 mm, with a "1" in exergue, this is likley just a practice strike to see how the stamped font appeared. However, if the Jesse Ketchum medal is gold or silver, it is likely that you have the first of its kind awarded to a student. If you tell me the size and the metal, I can provide the awardee.

-------------------------
DrSynergy00001`

It is silver but the trick now is to find it as I have a number of boxes with medals. As soon as it is found
I will post the information.

Denga

denga · March 7, 2008 7:44AM

denga March 07, 2008

It is silver but the trick now is to find it as I have a number of boxes with medals. As soon as it is found
I will post the information.

Denga

Update: I have found one of the JK silver medals. It is the large one and my memory was not quite
exact. It is marked I.I. with the letter "I" having serifs at top and bottom. Also, on the reverse there is
a die break from the top right-hand corner of the shield to the border.

I have not yet found the smaller silver.

Denga

keets · March 7, 2008 8:24AM

Walmann · March 7, 2008 8:29AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< In AU 58 I would say $400.00 to $500.00 range, provided it was not a sea salvage example. IMHO.

>>

Much thanks for the info, any recommendations on websites where I can find iout more about this medal? >>

Forum members tmot99's SC$ site >>

Thanks Duiguy. I remember my dad talking about this medal, he believed it to be a coin, and finally obtained one in 2005, he passed the next year so at least he found one. Interesting facts and good to know why it was made, wonder if the Manila Mint titling was preventing the search engines from finding it.

LickThoseStamps · March 7, 2008 8:35AM

<< 

<< I'm not a medal collect myself, but my dad passed away and inherited a Wilson Dollar HK-449 graded by NGC. Being at the office I don't recall the grade but is either a AU58 or a low MS.

The sources I usually use for coins are not giving any information on this medal(?). Web search engines are not returning any hits either. Any of you know any info on this medal? I noticed the mention of a gold Wilson Dollar, but this one is silver.

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to post the question in. >>

In AU 58 I would say $400.00 to $500.00 range, provided it was not a sea salvage example. IMHO.

>>

Sea salvage example?

tmot99 · March 7, 2008 9:07AM

<< 

<< 

<< I'm not a medal collect myself, but my dad passed away and inherited a Wilson Dollar HK-449 graded by NGC. Being at the office I don't recall the grade but is either a AU58 or a low MS.

The sources I usually use for coins are not giving any information on this medal(?). Web search engines are not returning any hits either. Any of you know any info on this medal? I noticed the mention of a gold Wilson Dollar, but this one is silver.

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to post the question in. >>

In AU 58 I would say $400.00 to $500.00 range, provided it was not a sea salvage example. IMHO.

>>

Sea salvage example?

>>

Most of the Wilson Dollars were dumped into the sea. The copper ones are really tough to find. You'll frequently see both the silver and copper ones damaged due to the water.

DrSynergy · March 8, 2008 1:21PM

Denga: the awardee for 49 mm silver Jesse Ketchum medal numbered II was Frederick Drumm in 1908 from Masten Park High School, second place high school senior award.

I'm simply STUNNED by the prices Mint and Expoe medals are bringing at Long Beach!

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