New VAM Discoveries

Coxe · February 22, 2008 7:08AM

Got my box back from Leroy. 9 new discoveries 1 revision, and 3 updates to VAM descriptions. A Hot-50 variety is affected a little.

Some other things from my and his letters worth noting:

The gouge in TY in Jeff Oxman's 8TF guide page 50 for VAM-14.9 is not a marker for that obverse. It is, in fact, in the type I master die and subsequent hubs. Every I and even dual-hubbed II/I obverse exhibits this to variable extents. Some are just a weak cross on the upright of the T. I also discussed this with Jeff Oxman in Long Beach and we are in agreement that several distinct VAMs are likely the same die pairs. VAM-14's reverse appears to be a repolishing of the ultrarare A1n reverse. More on that some other time.

The A in STATES for 1880 VAM-35 is slightly doubled. Leroy concurs but declined to list it. JUst something to note to lock in attributions.

1883-O VAM-15 has slight doubling inside the ear. It also at one point clashed without letter transfer. Might help attribute.

Of the discoveries/revision:

1888-S VAM-1B, as we know, is a tough Hot-50 coin to find. Leroy added the pitting by the left star to the description as I had a nice example for him to examine. The New VAM-1C uses the same reverse die, even rotated exactly the same as for the VAM-1B, repolished leaving rust pits inside the wreath to the left of the bow and elsewhere. The obverse die is completely different. It is notable for a weird gouge out of the bottom of the eye. The discovery coin is ANACS AU50. However, I located and won another (Heritage lot 1286 in the sale 460 at Long Beach) in NGC MS64, the current finest. I was outbid prior to that on another UNC example; I think it was at Teletrade. I will give more details on the obverse die to see if it was a reuse from another VAM(s).

1901 VAM-20 is a new, spectacularly overbuffed reverse. The discovery piece is PCGS AU58. I have seen others of this very intersting variety out there and are worth picking up.

1921 VAM-31A has been split into die states: 31A1, 31A2 and 31B.

Rampage · February 22, 2008 7:19AM

Congrats on the nice group of discoveries!

dwssws · February 22, 2008 7:35AM

<< Congrats on the nice group of discoveries! >>

DorkGirl · February 22, 2008 8:11AM

You are a VAM machine.

wam98 · February 22, 2008 8:20AM

Those are some neat finds. Thanks for posting.

HighRelief · February 22, 2008 8:32AM

It is amazing how you find those little dots and dashes. The 1922-P Vam 2BY Dot must be smaller than a pin head.

Congratulations on your new discoveries

bottleguy · February 22, 2008 8:38AM

Finally got your box back! (whew!.... I know you've been waiting a long time!) Cool finds!! Well worth the wait!!

Rick

cmerlo1 · February 22, 2008 8:52AM

Awesome! Congrats on the new finds. Now I have more to look for!

eyoung429 · February 22, 2008 9:16AM

OUT F'IN STANDING!!!!!!!!!!

btw....you suck!!!!!!!

Wolf359 · February 22, 2008 12:07PM

Major score I'd say.

BTW John, I'm 99% sure that 1888-S 12A is an early die state of 1888-S VAM-1B.

Coxe · February 22, 2008 12:28PM

<< Major score I'd say.

BTW John, I'm 99% sure that 1888-S 12A is an early die state of 1888-S VAM-1B. >>

Hmm...I'll have to get a 12A then. Might be and EDS of 1B or possibly an EDS of 1C. If you have a 12A, we can compare marks in hidden areas and similar for the 1B and 1C obverses. Note that the 1B has that crack from left star 1 to the bust point.

Coxe · February 22, 2008 3:13PM

Looked at the 12A write up at vamworld and I am sure you are right and it is the EDS of the 1B.

nesvt · February 22, 2008 9:15PM

Very cool! Congrats!

direwolf1972 · February 22, 2008 11:57PM

Way to go. Great batch. I was searching all through it till I found the 1888 S

Coxe · February 23, 2008 3:56AM

<< Way to go. Great batch. I was searching all through it till I found the 1888 S

>>

I have to give Paul (direwolf) partial credit on that one. He turned me on to the Heritage lot thinking, based on the die rotation, it might be a 1B. I ruled it out but found it interesting enough to pursue nonetheless for what I did see by the eye and in the rotation. The residual pitting was seen in hand when it arrived.

Raybob15239 · February 23, 2008 5:05AM

I'm confused on the dots...seems like Leroy can be fickle. He told me a dot bigger than that Peace Dollar dot and more round that filled a space inside the 2 on a 21D Morgan was not big enough to list. I don't get it????

Congrats, by the way, on a nice group... I went 0-11 on the last round, though I did get two revisions to existing VAMs.

Coxe · February 23, 2008 6:11AM

He wouldn't list based on the dots. The dots, as well as cracks and polishing lines, can be used as die markers.

Another example is the 1884-O VAM-4A. It has overlapped reeding. Try to cherrypick that from an NGC slab though. There is a die marker of a thin vertical polish line up form the I of In of the reverse motto. That you can see. He wouldn't assign the 4A to the coin for that, otherwise, barely significant polish line. The VAM was assigned for the overlapped reeding. He, however, makes mention of die markers to assist in locking down attributions. Notice the first two images in the set in the OP. They are not for any discoveries or revisions from the package. I sent them so die markers could be added to the descriptions to help in this way.

Raybob15239 · February 23, 2008 6:51AM

Thanks, Coxe. This last package I sent to Leroy had the most coins I've sent and struck out except for the two revisions. Before, I just sent one or two coins and they all hit as new VAMs, so while I was extremely lucky before, it made the 0-fer that much more disappointing. I've got 4 more to send in March. Maybe two will come back as new discoveries. The others might be too small to list, but ya gotta take the chance, right?

Wolf359 · February 23, 2008 7:07AM

<< Looked at the 12A write up at vamworld and I am sure you are right and it is the EDS of the 1B. >>

Meaning that 1B has been VAM-12 all along. That's why I didn't take it further, as it screws up everybody and their slab labels.

dwssws · February 23, 2008 8:01AM

<< You are a VAM machine.

>>

Coxe · February 23, 2008 9:42AM

<< 

<< Looked at the 12A write up at vamworld and I am sure you are right and it is the EDS of the 1B. >>

Meaning that 1B has been VAM-12 all along. That's why I didn't take it further, as it screws up everybody and their slab labels. >>

Nah. Look at the 1892-O VAM-7...er...VAM-5. PCGS and NGC just ignore the change.

ashmore · February 23, 2008 11:00AM

On the 1C..isn't that a neat coin? Logan McKechnie and I have been collecting them for some time now.. he just got his in behind your's.. in fact there may be two different reverses with that gouged eye obverse.

I had marked that lot to bid on in the Auction. It's a good thing I didn't. What happened was that everything else I bid on got so high that I decided to just not bid at all..

Ash

ashmore · February 23, 2008 11:02AM

No doubt

Coxe · February 23, 2008 6:31PM

<< On the 1C..isn't that a neat coin? Logan McKechnie and I have been collecting them for some time now.. he just got his in behind your's.. in fact there may be two different reverses with that gouged eye obverse.

I had marked that lot to bid on in the Auction. It's a good thing I didn't. What happened was that everything else I bid on got so high that I decided to just not bid at all..

Ash >>

I was so surprised how much I had to pay to get that coin. I already had my AU at Leroy's and missed another MS because the bidding got nuts, I think at Teletrade a number of weeks prior. I think I have been in these since Jan 8 but only have the two so far. The horse is out of the barn now though.

I would not be surprised that there are two reverses for the obverse. However, I would expect that the gouge then to be a midproduction event for the use before the repolished 1B reverse pairing. This could get quite interesting, especially with the 12A issues added in there. New Orleans won't have all of the fun for 1888.

New VAM Discoveries

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