Keep in mind that it's possible for someone who is sufficiently savvy to fake the IP address they are posting from.
sufficiently savy huh?
ok guys and gals, this is not easy unless a few factors are in place.
first thing to understand is if your computer sends out a post to a forum with a fake IP address you will never get a reply back. this means logging in would be impossible. you cannot go through the motions of logging in over the internet without a 2way communication process taking place.
yes you can send out a "packet" of data with a fake IP address but that is it. the opposite end will see the packet and then that is it. often called a denial of service attack when the attacker tries to flood the victim with massive amounts of data and wishes to hide.
-- the easiest way i can see a person using an IP that NGC is currently using is if NGC has a wide open proxy. Meaning the proxy is in the middle and the bulletin board will see the proxy. If you look through every web browser they have options to add a proxy. it is a way you can retain some privacy when visiting a website or a company wishes to use it for several reasons.
another way would be to hack a NGC's employees workstation (PC). send them an email with an executable attachment that opens a backdoor to control it. use it as a proxy or directly and post to the forum.
---
in summary, NGC either has wicked bad security on their lan, one of their computers was hacked by a coin collector :-|, or
which is the easiest answer, a person on NGC's lan created a new account and posted from a workstation.
people think they anon when posting on the internet and often make mistakes that a savier person can catch.
like frank here knowing he can look up who is using a block of IPs.
Thats what I say, I could care less who does like them and who does not. In the end, its a coin I like and feel comfortable with the price, regardless of what plastic it is hosted in.
I like SEGS. Getting BB with nothing but 'Altered Surfaces' from PCGS wasn't helping me learn what was actually done to them. I've made up a really neat comparison set with semi-key Morgans. SEGS gave them the grade I bought them at and labeled the problem.
Have they tightened up or something? Five or 6 years ago I couldn't find anything in a SEGS holder that I liked. PCGS is still my choice for grading and holdering. But, SEGS is 2nd and NCS is 3rd.
I like Larry Brigg's article on Liberty Seated Quarters in the Jan supplement CDN.
Realone, as others have asked, have you got the coin in question and will you post an image?
While it would seem your dealer was a rat, more important is the apparent fact that he does not appear to be the type to want to build up a customer base in view of his practices with a novice collector. No doubt fool me once... applies here but the negative pr that comes from treating customers poorly can wreak havoc on the dealer's business. If you belong to local coin clubs, I bet you have shared your experience with others.
Obviously, you did not decide to abandon numismatics as a result. The hobby is enhanced by the continuous addition of "new blood". We'll always have the ne'er do wells but through sharing, we can keep them somewhat in check.
<< <i>"NGc voids it's guarantee by (apparently) overgrading everything MS66 and MS67. Their mentality is, "who in their right mind would want to downgrade a coin based on principle?" Secondly, most coins going to NgC are those that aren't sent to PCGS. So basically, they're grading leftovers, the lower percent of the market that's usually watched by a less knowledgeable pool of collectors. No offense to those who might think they have some upper advantage following NGC over PCGS, I can only speak from the Jefferson nickel perspective and based on some analogies on pop numbers for some modern series."
What a bunch of baloney! I'll put NGC coins against anyone's side by side. I believe if chosen at random, as many coins if cracked from other service holders would grade LOWER at NGC as would grade lower when the other way around. In other words if comparing only NGC and PCGS, you'd be just as likely to get downgrades at both services from coins removed from the others holder.
To say NGC grades leftovers is just a completely uninformed statement. I believe NGC grades more coins than any other service, and by far most have not been anywhere else as you say, but not because they are left overs or sub-standard, it is because knowlegeable submitters want the right grade the first time. I know this to be a fact because I am a major submitter and I know most of the other major submitters and we just like getting the right grade the first time.
PCGS is a great grading service also, but I understand NGC better, like their consistency, and that's where most of my grading dollars are spent. >>
On the silver nickels 1942-P to 1945-S, MS only, NGC has graded 39011 nickels of which 20,629 were graded MS66 and 16,845 were graded MS67! Add those two numbers together and we have a grand total of 37,474. Out of 39,011 MS coins, NGC has graded 37,474 of them MS66 or MS67! That's 96%! NGC has graded only 1122 MS65 war nickels over the years it has been in business?
Pcgs has only graded 925 MS67 war nickels to NGC's 16,845!
On a personal note, I realize every TGS has their own grading standards but over the years NGC has been in business, how can hundreds of submitters send in war nickels that get graded MS66 and MS67 all day long?
And as a collector of Jefferson nickels for 16+ years, I have been able to add only a half dozon NGC certified nickels to my 250+ slab collection and I have seen hundreds of them over the years. I've asked the following questions many times over with NGC certified nickels; is it a requirement of NGC that all MS67 coins be lustrous, virtually markfree and fully struck? The answers to those questions come to light everytime a seasoned collector picks up a certified coin to examine it!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
As a beginner stay away from SEGS as they make more mistakes than the top TPG's, as an advance collector you can find some great coins in SEGS holders.
And for the most part they are pretty good at annotating any issues.
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have only purchased one coin in a SEGS holder. It has an XF45 Maryland. I cracked it out for my PCGS lowball registry set. It came back from PCGS as MS62.
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer. >>
it seems obvious to me. ngc overgrades most lib half eagles and they hope pcgs will take their opinion at face value and agree. a subtle way to influence pcgs.
lately though, people are getting burned bigtime! NGC - giving dealers the grades they want!
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer. >>
it seems obvious to me. ngc overgrades most lib half eagles and they hope pcgs will take their opinion at face value and agree. a subtle way to influence pcgs.
lately though, people are getting burned bigtime! NGC - giving dealers the grades they want!
?? >>
Burned big time because NGC AU58 in liberty and classic head half eagles are grading AU50/53 at PCGS.
Ladies and Gentalmen it's not, I repeat not the slab grade that that make's the grade IT'S YOUR OWN TWO EYE'S AND YOUR BRAIN .IF A TPG'S OR A SELF SLAB 123 SAY'S A COIN IS MS OR PR AND YOU THINK IT'S PO-1 DON'T BUY IT but of course your going to have people that say" OOOHHHHH THEY PUT IT AS A MS 68 AND MY LOCAL B&M SAY'S YOU PAID 1.000.000.000,00 FOR THAT WELL I'LL GIVE YOU TWO BUCK'S FOR IT DON'T CRY BOOHOO I'M GOING TO YADAYADA, i know we need to keep the hobby in check for newbs but a little self knowledge goes a long way in the hobby of coin's, all yea and john your probably right about grading more coin's than other grading company's I'VE SEEN SOME TV SHOW'S THAT SELL COUNTLESS NGC SLABBED COIN'S
Comments
How about you grow up and stop sending me childish eMails through the eBay system?
Russ, NCNE
sufficiently savy huh?
ok guys and gals, this is not easy unless a few factors are in place.
first thing to understand is if your computer sends out a post to a
forum with a fake IP address you will never get a reply back. this means logging in would be impossible. you cannot go through the
motions of logging in over the internet without a 2way communication
process taking place.
yes you can send out a "packet" of data with a fake IP address but
that is it. the opposite end will see the packet and then that is it.
often called a denial of service attack when the attacker tries to flood
the victim with massive amounts of data and wishes to hide.
--
the easiest way i can see a person using an IP that NGC is currently
using is if NGC has a wide open proxy. Meaning the proxy is in the
middle and the bulletin board will see the proxy. If you look through
every web browser they have options to add a proxy. it is a way
you can retain some privacy when visiting a website or a company
wishes to use it for several reasons.
another way would be to hack a NGC's employees workstation (PC).
send them an email with an executable attachment that opens a backdoor
to control it. use it as a proxy or directly and post to the forum.
---
in summary, NGC either has wicked bad security on their lan, one
of their computers was hacked by a coin collector :-|, or
which is the easiest answer, a person on NGC's lan created a new account
and posted from a workstation.
people think they anon when posting on the internet and often
make mistakes that a savier person can catch.
like frank here knowing he can look up who is using a block of IPs.
---
> host 65.196.179.50
50.179.196.65.IN-ADDR.ARPA domain name pointer host50.ngccoin.com
> whois 65.196.179.50 | grep NUMIS
NUMISMATIC GUARANTY CORP UU-65-196-179-48-D8 (NET-65-196-179-48-1)
<< <i>I like SEGS.
Thats it. >>
Thats what I say, I could care less who does like them and who does not. In the end, its a coin I like and feel comfortable with the price, regardless of what plastic it is hosted in.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
helping me learn what was actually done to them. I've made up
a really neat comparison set with semi-key Morgans. SEGS gave them the
grade I bought them at and labeled the problem.
Have they tightened up or something? Five or 6 years ago I couldn't find
anything in a SEGS holder that I liked. PCGS is still my choice for grading
and holdering. But, SEGS is 2nd and NCS is 3rd.
I like Larry Brigg's article on Liberty Seated Quarters in the Jan supplement
CDN.
Jerry
While it would seem your dealer was a rat, more important is the apparent fact that he does not appear to be the type to want to build up a customer base in view of his practices with a novice collector. No doubt fool me once... applies here but the negative pr that comes from treating customers poorly can wreak havoc on the dealer's business. If you belong to local coin clubs, I bet you have shared your experience with others.
Obviously, you did not decide to abandon numismatics as a result. The hobby is enhanced by the continuous addition of "new blood". We'll always have the ne'er do wells but through sharing, we can keep them somewhat in check.
<< <i>"NGc voids it's guarantee by (apparently) overgrading everything MS66 and MS67. Their mentality is, "who in their right mind would want to downgrade a coin based on principle?" Secondly, most coins going to NgC are those that aren't sent to PCGS. So basically, they're grading leftovers, the lower percent of the market that's usually watched by a less knowledgeable pool of collectors. No offense to those who might think they have some upper advantage following NGC over PCGS, I can only speak from the Jefferson nickel perspective and based on some analogies on pop numbers for some modern series."
What a bunch of baloney! I'll put NGC coins against anyone's side by side. I believe if chosen at random, as many coins if cracked from other service holders would grade LOWER at NGC as would grade lower when the other way around. In other words if comparing only NGC and PCGS, you'd be just as likely to get downgrades at both services from coins removed from the others holder.
To say NGC grades leftovers is just a completely uninformed statement. I believe NGC grades more coins than any other service, and by far most have not been anywhere else as you say, but not because they are left overs or sub-standard, it is because knowlegeable submitters want the right grade the first time. I know this to be a fact because I am a major submitter and I know most of the other major submitters and we just like getting the right grade the first time.
PCGS is a great grading service also, but I understand NGC better, like their consistency, and that's where most of my grading dollars are spent. >>
On the silver nickels 1942-P to 1945-S, MS only, NGC has graded 39011 nickels of which 20,629 were graded MS66 and 16,845 were graded MS67! Add those two numbers together and we have a grand total of 37,474. Out of 39,011 MS coins, NGC has graded 37,474 of them MS66 or MS67! That's 96%! NGC has graded only 1122 MS65 war nickels over the years it has been in business?
Pcgs has only graded 925 MS67 war nickels to NGC's 16,845!
On a personal note, I realize every TGS has their own grading standards but over the years NGC has been in business, how can hundreds of submitters send in war nickels that get graded MS66 and MS67 all day long?
And as a collector of Jefferson nickels for 16+ years, I have been able to add only a half dozon NGC certified nickels to my 250+ slab collection and I have seen hundreds of them over the years. I've asked the following questions many times over with NGC certified nickels; is it a requirement of NGC that all MS67 coins be lustrous, virtually markfree and fully struck? The answers to those questions come to light everytime a seasoned collector picks up a certified coin to examine it!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
those numbers are meaningless
unless the pop reports of SEGS, ANACS, and ICG
can be added
I wonder why all the good war nickels end up at NGC
Why did Heritage submit to 3 TPG's when they submitted all those
Omaha Hoard coins?
<< <i>
It looks like the post may have been removed if it was posted after 1/31/08. I don't see it there. >>
It was posted Feb 9
Link
And for the most part they are pretty good at annotating any issues.
I checked, his eBay account has been suspended
<< <i>
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer. >>
Not sure that's usually the first and only place I send mine.
Lafayette Grading Set
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer. >>
it seems obvious to me. ngc overgrades most lib half eagles and
they hope pcgs will take their opinion at face value and agree. a
subtle way to influence pcgs.
lately though, people are getting burned bigtime!
NGC - giving dealers the grades they want!
??
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer. >>
it seems obvious to me. ngc overgrades most lib half eagles and
they hope pcgs will take their opinion at face value and agree. a
subtle way to influence pcgs.
lately though, people are getting burned bigtime!
NGC - giving dealers the grades they want!
?? >>
Burned big time because NGC AU58 in liberty and classic head half eagles are grading AU50/53 at PCGS.
<< <i>how can you tell where CharlesWoods was when he posted his eBay problems?
I checked, his eBay account has been suspended >>
The post that raised eyebrows was a post made on Feb 9 by Hobbywatch
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Why not send it directly to PCGS? >>
Still waiting for an answer. >>
Because they make more money that way.
Then to CAC to get a sticker.
.....................................................
<< <i><< Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Then to CAC to get a sticker.
because they make more money that way.
<< <i>
<< <i><< Classic coins go to NGC first to get the grade, then PCGS for crossover. >>
Then to CAC to get a sticker.
because they make more money that way. >>
If 'they' are coin doctors or crackout artists, you are wrong.