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The "No Arrows" Seated coins of 1853

rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
In 1853, the US mint produced two distinct types of Seated coins: the old "No Arrows" type, and the later "Arrows at Date" type, which had a reduced weight. Many of the 1853 No Arrows coins were exported and melted due to their higher silver content, which made them worth slightly more than face value.

A complete set of No Arrows coins from 1853 would include:

The scarce 1853 No Arrows half dime
The very scarce 1853-O No Arrows half dime
The scarce 1853 No Arrows dime
The rare 1853 No Arrows quarter
The very rare 1853-O No Arrows half dollar.
A Seated dollar.

I am not including large cents, gold, etc., which also have no arrows at the date, of course.

All of these coins are difficult to obtain in nicer grades and have seen recent price increases. The mintage figures were very, very low, and widespread melting made the mintage figures very inaccurate, if not meaningless. And by the way, they are still worth more than face value, but please don't melt any of them.

Let's see if we can get photos of every one of these coins in one thread. I'll start things off with a half dime, and we'll go from there.


image

Comments

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    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    Very good info, I only have a photo of an 1876-CC seated dime but am looking forward to additional posts. image
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    richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    image
    image
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    rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Regarding the above quarter, if you own it, then YOU SUCK.
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    richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Regarding the above quarter, if you own it, then YOU SUCK. >>



    image I in fact do own it but definitely don't qualify for a "YOU SUCK" award as.... let's just say it didn't come cheap.

    Thanks though image
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    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Regarding the above quarter, if you own it, then YOU SUCK. >>



    image I in fact do own it but definitely don't qualify for a "YOU SUCK" award as.... let's just say it didn't come cheap.

    Thanks though image >>



    But that has arrows. image
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    richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    Here's my version of your "P" Half Dime...

    imageimage
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    rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your H10c seems to be the same die state and marriage as mine- cracks join stars 10-11 on the obverse, and the top of ME of AMERICA. Perhaps Mr. HalfDime can elaborate when he sees this.
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    speetyspeety Posts: 5,424
    The seated dollar:

    image
    Want to buy an auction catalog for the William Hesslein Sale (December 2, 1926). Thanks to all those who have helped us obtain the others!!!

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    imageimage
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
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    richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    dang... I don't think I've ever even saw a picture of one of those before.... image
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    tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭


    << <i>dang... I don't think I've ever even saw a picture of one of those before.... image >>



    Wow, that is impressive. I certainly had not seen a picture of one either. Is that the real McCoy? Do you own it?
    Tom

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    LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK I just looked in the book and is this one of the three known.
    imageimage
    image
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    rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's the elusive 1853-O NA H10c. It's normal for the date to be weak and mushy, and this one is actually a relatively high-grade example as far as these go! It's still one of the most worn-out H10c in my Seated colelction.

    Now we just need someone to post an 1853-P NA dime, and we'll have a complete collection in this thread. We already got a picture of the toughest one (the half dollar)!


    image
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    richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    ok.. if you insist image

    image
    image
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    MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭
    I would love to post images of my 1853 and 1853-O No Arrows half dimes, but alas I do not have that capability. I have three AU examples of the 1853 No Arrows V1 half dime, and one PCGS AU-50 example of the 1853-O No Arrows V1 half dime.

    The 1853 No Arrows half dime that you posted is an early die state of the V1, as listed by Daniel W. Valentine in his 1931 reference. He lists a later die state (V1a) with more advanced die cracks. For the V1 (early die state), he lists only faint die cracks on the reverse at the tops of UNI and MER. That is what your coin, and that of Richardship, appear to be. Surprisingly, I have never found an example of this early die state, and I have never found a so-called perfect die example, nor did Valentine. The three examples that I have are all the V1a, in various progressive die states. Most evident is an obverse die crack from the rim at K6:30 which runs through the bases of all four date numerals. On much later die states, on the reverse there is a die crack from the left stem to the rim, and another die crack at U of UNITED. There is another die crack from A2 to the rim. Another die crack, previously mentioned, connects the tops of MER, and to rim.

    I would love to be able to post a picture of my 1853-O No Arrows half dime. It was purchased in 1996 from Dave Olmstead (Alpine Coins) in an old PCGS AU-50 holder. Although I have seen examples with higher grades written on the inserts, this is the nicest example that I have ever seen. One can only wonder what it might grade today if it were to be resubmitted, although I will never do that. As is diagnostic for the issue, the date is always weak, particularly at the lower left, as seen on your example.

    Recently a well known Liberty Seated dealer who is extremely knowledgable in the series contacted me about a raw example of the 1853-O No Arrows half dime that he recently sold. His customer was concerned that the coin was raw, and not in a slab and certified, so it was submitted to PCGS for authentication and grading. It was returned in a body bag with the notation "Arrows removed". The dealer was certain that the coin was genuine, and discussed with me the several diagnostics which indicated that it was genuine, and wondered what he might do to convince the good people at PCGS that the coin was, in fact, genuine. I told him to simply weigh the coin. If it was a "With Arrows" example from which someone had removed the arrows, it would have weighed only 1.25 grams when minted. However, if it were a genuine "No Arrows" example, it would have weighed 1.35 grams when minted. Arrows are sometimes removed to create bogus examples of this rare half dime, but the weight cannot easily be increased by a full 0.1 gram in order to complete the deception. The coin turned out to be genuine, as would be expected from this dealer. I wonder why PCGS did not think of that?
    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Someday, I would like to get one of those quarters.
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    CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,652 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Someday, I would like to get one of those quarters. >>



    If you can get one like that pictured here, you will have done well!

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    Dawg144Dawg144 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭
    Rich Uhrich has the P-dime in Good.
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    seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭
    those half dimes are all weak dates
    I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

    Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

    Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,345 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Damn cool thread. Bummer I missed it the first time around.

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