hmmmm........blatant shill bidding on an Internet coin auction house?

Doogy · February 7, 2008 9:05AM

There is a certain online coin auction that runs almost every week, and there is something that has caught my attention. If the coin doesn't sell, it appears again in the next auction (like commonly happens on Teletrade, although the auction venue i'm referring to isn't TT). However, usually when it re-appears for sale the next time in the auction, it isn't long until there are lone bids on the items that didn't get any bids last time, or didn't quite meet reserve. What is fishy is that these auctions say that the reserve will be met on next bid, usually not more than a few dollars more (one coin I looked at had close to a $700 bid, and the reserve was apparantly $715 as that was the next minimum bid allowed). I have seen some coins recycled into five and more auctions with this auction house, each time earning one bid that was just a hair away from meeting reserve (and the glaring prompt saying that the next bid will meet reserve).

The funny thing is when you see several coins like this in a row, on one page, and you start to wonder what person for the company or someone close to company enters these bids that are close to, but not quite the reserve? Does anyone but me find this to be blatant shill bidding, and unethical?

JoeLewis · February 7, 2008 9:28AM

As long as they don't continue to bid after the reserve has been met then it's no different than just putting a starting bid at $715 (in that example.) Not a problem to me.

tmcsr69 · February 7, 2008 9:30AM

<< As long as they don't continue to bid after the reserve has been met then it's no different than just putting a starting bid at $715 (in that example.) Not a problem to me. >>

I agree with this explanation.

Doogy · February 7, 2008 9:32AM

yup, but.............if you're talking about the ebay method where you have the minimum bid set; say it starts at $99.00 for example. That is the minimum you'll accept for someone to post THEIR first bid. when you start the auction, you're starting price is not considered a formal bid. The difference i'm speaking about is that the auction starts at $0 with no bids, and then they start to magically appear are just a hair away from meeting reserve, perhaps coaxing people to place the next bid that is just a few dollars short of meeting the reserve.

to me, I see the latter (and what i'm talking about in this case) to be blatant shill bidding

JoeLewis · February 7, 2008 9:36AM

<< yup, but.............if you're talking about the ebay method where you have the minimum bid set; say it starts at $99.00 for example. That is the minimum you'll accept for someone to post THEIR first bid. when you start the auction, you're starting price is not considered a formal bid. The difference i'm speaking about is that the auction starts at $0 with no bids, and then they start to magically appear are just a hair away from meeting reserve, perhaps coaxing people to place the next bid that is just a few dollars short of meeting the reserve.

to me, I see the latter (and what i'm talking about in this case) to be blatant shill bidding >>

I agree there might be a psycological difference between seeing that someone has already bid up to $715, and seeing the starting bid at $715. But, from a technical stand point, there is no difference. Now if they bid again AFTER someone has placed a bid, then that is definitely shill bidding.

rgCoinGuy · February 7, 2008 9:42AM

This is kind of a tough one, but I tend to agree that shill bidding starts when money is actually at stake. Placing a "shill" bid under the reserve is obviously being done with the intention of making the next bidder THINK there is someone else interested, just below the level the next bidder (if there is one) is willing to bid. But until the reserve is met, it really isn't any different from setting a higher starting bid. I do not know where you are talking about, and whether they allow starting bids in an amount equal to the reserve. At least you are aware of what you at least think is going on, just use that knowledge to your advantage (you now know where the reserve is probably set).

BECOKA · February 7, 2008 9:43AM

Sounds like you are talking about David Lawrence.

They set reserves and when the reserve is announced that is what happens. It goes to one bid before the reserve. I don't have a problem with this because you know what the reserve is. I don't like TT because you never know.

ColonialCoinUnion · February 7, 2008 9:46AM

I do not know if the OP is referring to Heritage, or some other auction house, but in either case I think what you are observing is live bidding which is ultimately superceded by the revealing of the reserves at a fixed time prior to the end of the auction.

Once the reserves are revealed, the bid is placed on increment below that level and the 'Next bid meets reserve' indication is given - regardless of what bidding took place before the reserve was revealed and what level had been reached.

Doogy · February 7, 2008 9:46AM

<< 

<< yup, but.............if you're talking about the ebay method where you have the minimum bid set; say it starts at $99.00 for example. That is the minimum you'll accept for someone to post THEIR first bid. when you start the auction, you're starting price is not considered a formal bid. The difference i'm speaking about is that the auction starts at $0 with no bids, and then they start to magically appear are just a hair away from meeting reserve, perhaps coaxing people to place the next bid that is just a few dollars short of meeting the reserve.

to me, I see the latter (and what i'm talking about in this case) to be blatant shill bidding >>

I agree there might be a psycological difference between seeing that someone has already bid up to $715, and seeing the starting bid at $715. But, from a technical stand point, there is no difference. Now if they bid again AFTER someone has placed a bid, then that is definitely shill bidding. >>

so they should really be more transparent and make the opening bid amount be $715. I have no problem with the verbage to the side of that amount that states that the reserve is the next bid, but starting out at $0 and adding a fake bid amounts to something weird, IMHO. A "bid" should be by a person actually INTERESTED IN BUYING THE COIN, not the company selling or their proxy. eBay won't let you bid on your own material (in this case, an auction started at $0 dollars), and i think it is unethical to ask your own proxy (friend, relative, et cetera) to bid it up just short of the reserve price.

Unknown · February 7, 2008 9:48AM

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RegistryCoin · February 7, 2008 9:50AM

On TT, the "real" minimum bid shows after 3:30pm. On DLRC and HA, the asterisk appears which, like mentioned, means the next bid is "real".

ColonialCoinUnion · February 7, 2008 9:59AM

<< so they should really be more transparent and make the opening bid amount be $715. I have no problem with the verbage to the side of that amount that states that the reserve is the next bid, but starting out at $0 and adding a fake bid amounts to something weird, IMHO. A "bid" should be by a person actually INTERESTED IN BUYING THE COIN, not the company selling or their proxy. eBay won't let you bid on your own material (in this case, an auction started at $0 dollars), and i think it is unethical to ask your own proxy (friend, relative, et cetera) to bid it up just short of the reserve price. >>

How do you know they are "adding fake bids"? Or that the bids are being placed by a proxy of the consignor?

I think what you are observing are live bids starting at the low level.

It is in the interests of the auction house to start any lot - be it on line or in a live session - well below the reserve (assuming no live bids have already exceeded it) to encourage bidding activity which they hope will eventually continue to and eventually exceed the reserve.

JohnMaben · February 7, 2008 10:00AM

I think it serves the seller somewhat, but does no injustice to the buyer who is not forced to bid on the coin.

I also think that there are far too many in this hobby that are way too quick to call honest dealers crooks or question their ethics. It's childish, and why not assume the best until the worst is proven rather than speculate. I am not saying that is what is happening here as the premis here is "what do you think" rather than an outright accusation, but if the reference is to DLRC, John Feigenbaum is one of the most honest and upstanding guys in the business. Period.

I've seen (and experienced myself) so many occasions where people with little experience and credentials call into question seasoned and honest pro's because of their own unfounded suspicions and assuming minds, and it's just sickening.

John

Doogy · February 7, 2008 10:02AM

<< 

<< so they should really be more transparent and make the opening bid amount be $715. I have no problem with the verbage to the side of that amount that states that the reserve is the next bid, but starting out at $0 and adding a fake bid amounts to something weird, IMHO. A "bid" should be by a person actually INTERESTED IN BUYING THE COIN, not the company selling or their proxy. eBay won't let you bid on your own material (in this case, an auction started at $0 dollars), and i think it is unethical to ask your own proxy (friend, relative, et cetera) to bid it up just short of the reserve price. >>

How do you know they are "adding fake bids"? Or that the bids are being placed by a proxy of the consignor?

I think what you are observing are live bids starting at the low level.

It is in the interests of the auction house to start any lot - be it on line or in a live session - well below the reserve (assuming no live bids have already exceeded it) to encourage bidding activity which they hope will eventually continue to and eventually exceed the reserve. >>

Do you think that it is merely coincidence that every time a single bid is placed on these lots, it just happens to miss the reserve price; and this happens time after time again when the coin is recycled to the next auction because that one bid is slightly too little money to meet reserve?
I've been tracking many of these coins, and this is a pattern, not an isolated incident.

Unknown · February 7, 2008 10:04AM

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notwilight · February 7, 2008 10:12AM

The reserve is basicly treated as a bid.

JoeLewis · February 7, 2008 10:15AM

<< The reserve is basicly treated as a bid. >>

I've never understood the usefulness of a reserve. Why not just start the bidding at that reserve amount?

vplite · February 7, 2008 10:42AM

<< There is a certain online coin auction that runs almost every week, and there is something that has caught my attention. If the coin doesn't sell, it appears again in the next auction (like commonly happens on Teletrade, although the auction venue i'm referring to isn't TT). However, usually when it re-appears for sale the next time in the auction, it isn't long until there are lone bids on the items that didn't get any bids last time, or didn't quite meet reserve. What is fishy is that these auctions say that the reserve will be met on next bid, usually not more than a few dollars more (one coin I looked at had close to a $700 bid, and the reserve was apparantly $715 as that was the next minimum bid allowed). I have seen some coins recycled into five and more auctions with this auction house, each time earning one bid that was just a hair away from meeting reserve (and the glaring prompt saying that the next bid will meet reserve).

The funny thing is when you see several coins like this in a row, on one page, and you start to wonder what person for the company or someone close to company enters these bids that are close to, but not quite the reserve? Does anyone but me find this to be blatant shill bidding, and unethical? >>

I absolutely agree with you that this is dishonest. A bid is a bid and a reserve is a reserve. A "Minimum acceptable amount" Starting amount" or is what it is too. In a public auction to call something other than what it is is dishonest and a perversion of the auction process.

I guess I have been (attempted) cheated by shills too often. Like on ebay when I have bid against "someone" who drops out after beating me and am offered a "second chance" at the item a a price that was priced higher than when the shill started. There is nothing I ever needed on ebay so much that I am unwilling to tell them to shove it when I suspect that there has been an attempt to cheat me. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

Crabby Old Man from Missouri

Cameohunter · February 7, 2008 10:44AM

Doogy

I have seen what you described frequently on Heritage. The same coins again and again just one bid away from meeting the reserve. If you jump in you are the winner. I concluded that a proxy or two for the consignor knew the reserve and were bidding the coin up to but not over the reserve.

It was interesting last year to see the same Proof Jeffersons in NGC Ultra Cameo holders always one bid away meeting reserve.

It may not be shill bidding but it is deceptive.

Mark

BBN · February 7, 2008 10:56AM

<< 

<< The reserve is basicly treated as a bid. >>

I've never understood the usefulness of a reserve. Why not just start the bidding at that reserve amount? >>

I think people have a tendency to shy away from auctions that start high, but get drawn in to those that are low and will begin bidding to hit a reserve. Bidding activity will sometimes trigger more bidders so setting it low seems to bring in more early interest.

vplite · February 7, 2008 11:09AM

<< 

<< 

<< The reserve is basicly treated as a bid. >>

I've never understood the usefulness of a reserve. Why not just start the bidding at that reserve amount? >>

I think people have a tendency to shy away from auctions that start high, but get drawn in to those that are low and will begin bidding to hit a reserve. Bidding activity will sometimes trigger more bidders so setting it low seems to bring in more early interest. >>

You hit it on the head. Human nature.

JohnMaben · February 7, 2008 11:12AM

vplite-

It's funny you mention this, because we've been wrongly accused of attempting a scam on a few occasions when second chance offers were sent. 99% of our customers that get second chance offers know we are sending it to them because we have duplicates, they are not getting the pictured coin which was already won by someone else. The language in the second chance offer put there by ebay even states one of the reasons you are receiving it could be because the seller has duplicates. But there is always that one genius that starts calling you a crook because how the heck could you be offering me a second chance so quiclkly, when someone else just bought it? DAH!!!

As for the pricing of the second chance offer, the seller has no control over that, they are sent to the underbidders at whatever there bid was on the item, Again, 99% of the time people are thrilled to get these second chances as they can buy the coin below the selling price, and about 1/3 of them are executed, but then there is that guy that has already decided your up to no good. We explain once, and if that's not good enough, we block those bidders because you know any future dealings will probably just be trouble.

On January 1st, we auctioned about 600 lots on ebay and had duplicates on about half of the lots, so hundreds of second chance offers were sent. We understand there are fake second chance offers that may scare inexperienced buyers, but there are many ways to tell the real offers from the fake if you know what to look for.

John

RYK · February 7, 2008 11:16AM

<< vplite-

It's funny you mention this, because we've been wrongly accused of attempting a scam on a few occasions when second chance offers were sent. 99% of our customers that get second chance offers know we are sending it to them because we have duplicates, they are not getting the pictured coin which was already won by someone else. The language in the second chance offer put there by ebay even states one of the reasons you are receiving it could be because the seller has duplicates. But there is always that one genius that starts calling you a crook because how the heck could you be offering me a second chance so quiclkly, when someone else just bought it? DAH!!!

As for the pricing of the second chance offer, the seller has no control over that, they are sent to the underbidders at whatever there bid was on the item, Again, 99% of the time people are thrilled to get these second chances as they can buy the coin below the selling price, and about 1/3 of them are executed, but then there is that guy that has already decided your up to no good. We explain once, and if that's not good enough, we block those bidders because you know any future dealings will probably just be trouble.

On January 1st, we auctioned about 600 lots on ebay and had duplicates on about half of the lots, so hundreds of second chance offers were sent. We understand there are fake second chance offers that may scare inexperienced buyers, but there are many ways to tell the real offers from the fake if you know what to look for.

John >>

Unfortunately, there is a history of so many second chance offers being sent by scammers early on which conditioned many of us to believe that these were all scams. I ignore all. Better safe than sorry!

Griv · February 7, 2008 11:18AM

<< Do you think that it is merely coincidence that every time a single bid is placed on these lots, it just happens to miss the reserve price; and this happens time after time again when the coin is recycled to the next auction because that one bid is slightly too little money to meet reserve?
I've been tracking many of these coins, and this is a pattern, not an isolated incident. >>

Maybe you ought to get a life Barney Fife. They aren't going over the reserve so what does it matter? You sure are an angry, anal sort.

JohnMaben · February 7, 2008 11:29AM

We now type the following message manually into each offer in the comments field, and have been for about a year:

"We are sending you this second chance offer which expires after 24 hours because we have duplicates. If you have any questions please call 1 800 362 9004 EXT 311, 345, or 355 during normal business hours. Thank you,
ModernCoinMart"

Anyway, as I said, there are several great ways to tell a fake and here are just a few:

1) The offer arrives in your personal email, not in my ebay messages
2) The offer does not have an expiration on it.
3) The offer requires you to call someone or send outside email. All ebay second chances can be executed through ebay immediately.
4) The offer price seems too good to be true, and does not match what you last highest actual bid was.

John

notwilight · February 7, 2008 11:34AM

I use second chance offers for duplicates occasionally and about half of them get accepted. I too give a number for confirmation but nobody ever calls. People are getting more used to them. Plus good feedback helps. --Jerry

OneCent · February 7, 2008 11:42AM

More transparency is needed by several of the online auction houses in my opinion. Having robots place bids at timed increments can be very misleading and is, in my opinion, a form of shill bidding. It creates a perception of interest in a particular coin when in fact there may be none. A mind game and a clear advantage to the seller.

Griv · February 7, 2008 12:09PM

<< More transparency is needed by several of the online auction houses in my opinion. Having robots place bids at timed increments can be very misleading and is, in my opinion, a form of shill bidding. It creates a perception of interest in a particular coin when in fact there may be none. A mind game and a clear advantage to the seller. >>

So what? So what if gives the "perception" of anything? If you get all excited because you think someone else is excited about a bid then that is a personal problem. I'm not saying I think this is something I like or condone but it's no different that selling something for $29.99 so you give the perception that it is not as much as $30. I am shocked how many people want someone or something, laws, rules, handouts, etc., to protect them from not using that grey blob between their ears. Heck, if Doogy Do has a problem with it then that's at least one good reason in my book to take another look at it.

Doogy · February 7, 2008 12:13PM

<< 

<< More transparency is needed by several of the online auction houses in my opinion. Having robots place bids at timed increments can be very misleading and is, in my opinion, a form of shill bidding. It creates a perception of interest in a particular coin when in fact there may be none. A mind game and a clear advantage to the seller. >>

So what? So what if gives the "perception" of anything? If you get all excited because you think someone else is excited about a bid then that is a personal problem. I'm not saying I think this is something I like or condone but it's no different that selling something for $29.99 so you give the perception that it is not as much as $30. I am shocked how many people want someone or something, laws, rules, handouts, etc., to protect them from not using that grey blob between their ears. Heck, if Doogy Do has a problem with it then that's at least one good reason in my book to take another look at it.

>>

why use that "grey blob" between your ears now Griv? You've shown no evidence that you have before, why start now? Furthermore, please leave legitimate numismatic topics to myself and those that actually care about the hobby, and we'll leave the useless polling threads on whether or not PCGS should allow off-topic threads, to you.

Griv · February 7, 2008 12:18PM

<< 

<< 

<< More transparency is needed by several of the online auction houses in my opinion. Having robots place bids at timed increments can be very misleading and is, in my opinion, a form of shill bidding. It creates a perception of interest in a particular coin when in fact there may be none. A mind game and a clear advantage to the seller. >>

So what? So what if gives the "perception" of anything? If you get all excited because you think someone else is excited about a bid then that is a personal problem. I'm not saying I think this is something I like or condone but it's no different that selling something for $29.99 so you give the perception that it is not as much as $30. I am shocked how many people want someone or something, laws, rules, handouts, etc., to protect them from not using that grey blob between their ears. Heck, if Doogy Do has a problem with it then that's at least one good reason in my book to take another look at it.

>>

why use that "grey blob" between your ears now Griv? You've shown no evidence that you have before, why start now? Furthermore, please leave legitimate numismatic topics to myself and those that actually care about the hobby, and we'll leave the useless polling threads on whether or not PCGS should allow off-topic threads, to you. >>

First you have to demonstrate that you have a clue about numismatics which you have obviously don't. What you have is a bigoted and nasty attitude and a general lack of respect for anyone you consider "beneath" you. You remind me of Major Winchester from the TV series MASH. So full of yourself and so ready to put others down. What a Weenie you are.

Edited for grammer and to capitalize Weenie because Doogy Do is a Capital Weenie. My mistake, sorry.

Doogy · February 7, 2008 12:26PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< More transparency is needed by several of the online auction houses in my opinion. Having robots place bids at timed increments can be very misleading and is, in my opinion, a form of shill bidding. It creates a perception of interest in a particular coin when in fact there may be none. A mind game and a clear advantage to the seller. >>

So what? So what if gives the "perception" of anything? If you get all excited because you think someone else is excited about a bid then that is a personal problem. I'm not saying I think this is something I like or condone but it's no different that selling something for $29.99 so you give the perception that it is not as much as $30. I am shocked how many people want someone or something, laws, rules, handouts, etc., to protect them from not using that grey blob between their ears. Heck, if Doogy Do has a problem with it then that's at least one good reason in my book to take another look at it.

>>

why use that "grey blob" between your ears now Griv? You've shown no evidence that you have before, why start now? Furthermore, please leave legitimate numismatic topics to myself and those that actually care about the hobby, and we'll leave the useless polling threads on whether or not PCGS should allow off-topic threads, to you. >>

First you have to demonstrate that you have a clue about numismatics which you have obviously don't. What you have is a bigoted and nasty attitude and a general lack of respect for anyone you consider "beneath" you. You remind me Major Winchester from the TV series MASH. So full of yourself and so ready to put others down. What a weenie you are. >>

Griv- you started this with your nasty comments in earlier posts to this thread. If you can't take a rebuttal and someone as least standing up to you, then you need to take your attacks elsewhere where you can have free roam of the place. There are far too many people on this forum that won't tolerate bullying and trolling, and you've shown yourself to actively incite and participate in both.

If you feel the need to respond, then have at it, but i'm not going to get wrapped up in your petty games.

Back to numismatic topics, shall we?

vplite · February 7, 2008 12:27PM

<< vplite-

It's funny you mention this, because we've been wrongly accused of attempting a scam on a few occasions when second chance offers were sent. 99% of our customers that get second chance offers know we are sending it to them because we have duplicates, they are not getting the pictured coin which was already won by someone else. The language in the second chance offer put there by ebay even states one of the reasons you are receiving it could be because the seller has duplicates. But there is always that one genius that starts calling you a crook because how the heck could you be offering me a second chance so quiclkly, when someone else just bought it? DAH!!!

As for the pricing of the second chance offer, the seller has no control over that, they are sent to the underbidders at whatever there bid was on the item, Again, 99% of the time people are thrilled to get these second chances as they can buy the coin below the selling price, and about 1/3 of them are executed, but then there is that guy that has already decided your up to no good. We explain once, and if that's not good enough, we block those bidders because you know any future dealings will probably just be trouble.

On January 1st, we auctioned about 600 lots on ebay and had duplicates on about half of the lots, so hundreds of second chance offers were sent. We understand there are fake second chance offers that may scare inexperienced buyers, but there are many ways to tell the real offers from the fake if you know what to look for.

John >>

John,

I know the difference between legitimate second chance offers and scamming attempts from a third party.

I have never been offered a second chance on a duplicate coin, under the circumstances you have described. That would be a different matter. I have been offered a second chance under the circumstances I described in my post, and it stank.

If you offered me a second chance on a duplicate coin I would respect that, and want to see a photo of the coin (assuming we're not talking bullion items or most moderns in plastic) since no two coins are alike IMHO. I would not assume you were a crook.

Thanks for your post.

DoubleEagle59 · February 7, 2008 12:30PM

Does anyone but me find this to be blatant shill bidding, and unethical?

all's fair in Love and War....and Auctions!!!

Griv · February 7, 2008 12:38PM

<< Griv- you started this with your nasty comments in earlier posts to this thread. If you can't take a rebuttal and someone as least standing up to you, then you need to take your attacks elsewhere where you can have free roam of the place. There are far too many people on this forum that won't tolerate bullying and trolling, and you've shown yourself to actively incite and participate in both.

If you feel the need to respond, then have at it, but i'm not going to get wrapped up in your petty games.

Back to numismatic topics, shall we? >>

I simply stated that if you were opposed to it then in my book it would deserve another review. That isn't nasty. It might not be kind but it's a lot nicer than the jerkoff comments you've left in virtually any thread I've started. Who do YOU think you are being a total jerk every post you send my way and then you tell me I should leave. Why Major Winchester? You are somehow a more "serious" collector than I? Maybe I'm just not up to your high and mighty standards? Excuse me.

I say put a sock in that pie hole, grow up, get a personality and move on. You are a jerk but I'm sure I can find a way to tolerate your BS and not overreact to your childish posts.

wayneherndon · February 7, 2008 1:00PM

Some auction houses account for reserves by entering a bid one increment below the reserve such that the next bid will met reserve. It is a well known policy and in the auction houses' terms of sale. There is nothing suspect or notorious about it. In fact, I think it is kind of nice to know when I'm bidding against a reserve. Frankly, my preference would be that all auction houses do exactly this.

WH

Frankcoins · February 7, 2008 1:06PM

<< 

I agree there might be a psycological difference between seeing that someone has already bid up to $715, and seeing the starting bid at $715. But, from a technical stand point, there is no difference. Now if they bid again AFTER someone has placed a bid, then that is definitely shill bidding. >>

Most auctions of this type have a starting bid, often a very low amount, such as Heritage uses. The auction house then
bids ON BEHALF OF THE BIDDER up to a pre-determined reserve. These bids may be placed after someone has placed a
bid until the reserve is met. After that point, the auction house bids against the floor up to the highest (or second highest) "book" bid.

Griv · February 7, 2008 2:31PM

I think with the exceptions of oneCent and Doogy Do, everyone is pretty much in agreement that this is so much a NONE isuue and is also pretty much a waste of a thread. No offense to the DD as these auctions did seem a little suspicious but hopefully he/she has seen that his/her paranoia is unfounded. It's legit so I think we can move on, no sense for any more tears.

ahooka454 · February 7, 2008 2:50PM

oxy8890 · February 7, 2008 2:59PM

Frankcoins · February 8, 2008 7:46PM

<< 

It was interesting last year to see the same Proof Jeffersons in NGC Ultra Cameo holders always one bid away meeting reserve.

It may not be shill bidding but it is deceptive.

Mark >>

A live auctioneer always bids up to the reserve on behalf of the seller. The unsold lots are one bid under the reserve because if they had received bids exceeding the reserve, they wouldn't be unsold lots!

Frankcoins · February 8, 2008 7:51PM

<< 

I've never understood the usefulness of a reserve. Why not just start the bidding at that reserve amount? >>

As a licensed auctioneer, I can tell you why reserves exist , and why they are hidden, at least until the auction is under way. . The auctioneer is hired by the consignor, and his duty is to get the highest possible price for the items auctioned. There is a huge conflict of interest if the auctioneer reveals the reserve, because he has just told everyone "the least the owner will accept."

It would be the same as if you hired an agent to negotiate with a company to get you the highest possible salary, and the first thing your agent told the company was the least amount you would accept.

hmmmm........blatant shill bidding on an Internet coin auction house?

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