Ummm...did SGC restore and then steal a 52 Mantle?

ajw · February 6, 2008 10:42PM

I haven't read this word for word and I don't know if the person named is really associated with SGC, but it seems to indicate that someone at SGC was restoring and then swiped a 1952 Mantle.

Article

samspop · February 6, 2008 11:02PM

Ummm is right!! Who else but SGC could it be???

kidzfund · February 6, 2008 11:04PM

That's disturbing. "A card rating and restoration company" according to the article. Yikes!

perkdog · February 6, 2008 11:06PM

You would think he had a copy of his submission form or some sort of receipt? Ugly situation though...

otwcards · February 6, 2008 11:21PM

The most concerning points are:

a. "Restoration" - While it could be an oversight by the reporter, I'm not certain why a MINT card would be held to "improve" the condition unless alterations were being done. Now, if it were being reviewed for a grade bump, then that's another story.

b. "Contracted" - Which may give credence to the above stated "restoration."

And for those that aren't sure, Foreman is the owner/president of SGC having bought the company several years ago.

It's a sad commentary if the specifics are true, regardless of who is in possession of the card. "Restoring" or "correcting" flaws reeks of impropriety. Granted, it's common place in the hobby in many aspects, but for a grading service to be party to such activity is horrendous!

Let's hope that the story has been inaccurately reported.

bigdcards · February 6, 2008 11:21PM

I have a hard time thinking that they are a "restoration company". We'll see, but this just looks like another instance of a reporter who has a story wrong. If it's a true story then it's the end of SGC.

otwcards · February 6, 2008 11:28PM

<< I have a hard time thinking that they are a "restoration company". We'll see, but this just looks like another instance of a reporter who has a story wrong. If it's a true story then it's the end of SGC. >>

Even if its accurate as reported and in fact true in detail, it won't be the end of SGC. Granted, they'll take a hit, but at the worst, Foreman would leave his position (while still having ownership) and Grady would assume control now that he's back in the fold.

They survived all the flak over Merkle's erroneous grading of the T206 Doyle variation, just as PSA survives flak over the T206 McNall/Gretzky Wagner and other mishaps.

Heck, Beckett is still doing a bang up business and they'll put ANYTHING in a holder!

bigdcards · February 6, 2008 11:35PM

There's a difference between making a grading mistake and being a restoration company. If they are actually the ones doctoring cards to bump them a grade or two, then why would anyone trust their cards anymore.

stevek · February 6, 2008 11:38PM

Wow - that really is a shocker! Wonder what the SGC "lovers" here now have to say about their beloved SGC?

Man wants his Mantle rookie card back
BY PEGGY WRIGHT
DAILY RECORD
Wednesday, February 6, 2008

The owner of a 1952 Topps rookie Mickey Mantle card has sued the president of a Parsippany-based baseball card rating and restoration company, claiming the firm has refused to return his Mantle card that has an estimated value of more than $280,000.

A hearing is set to occur in Superior Court, Morristown, on Thursday on card owner James O. Haas’ allegations that David Forman, president of Sportscard Guaranty LLC, has somehow absconded with his Mickey Mantle card, no. 311.

A resident of Sea Girt and a longtime collector of baseball cards and sports memorabilia, Haas in mid-2007 contracted with Forman to correct slight imperfections in the Mantle card in hopes its grading could be elevated from a 9 to a perfect 10. According to the lawsuit, Haas’ card already was graded a 9, and another grade 9 Mantle card sold at auction in December 2006 for $282,587.

The lawsuit alleged that Forman at first said he was working on the restoration and then stopped returning Haas’ calls. Haas later learned of a blog on an Internet site that referred to “a high-profile Mantle card collector” borrowing $100,000 from someone and turning over a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle card as collateral on the loan. Fearing it was his card being referred to in the blog, Haas again demanded his card back and allegedly was rebuffed.

A call to Forman today was not immediately returned. Haas, accompanied by a Parsippany police officer to the Sportscard location in late November, was referred to an attorney and Forman would not return the card at that time, the lawsuit said.

stevek · February 6, 2008 11:44PM

Wonder if the marker ink leaked or the X-acto knife slipped while doctoring the card, and Forman just doesn't want to tell Haas what happened? LOL

TNTonPMS · February 7, 2008 12:06AM

<< Wonder if the marker ink leaked or the X-acto knife slipped while doctoring the card, and Forman just doesn't want to tell Haas what happened? LOL >>

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If that is the case they all deserve what they get .

I have always wondered what would stop these guys from taking someones stuff , Opps we messed up your card , sorry , it's now a 2 , we'll send it back to you, for instance ?

Or just flat out never returning it . . .

How can the guy prove that the card they have in their possesion is his card ?

I just don't get it ,

That story is WHACK

AnkurJ · February 7, 2008 12:14AM

WOW! Guy wasnt happy enough with a 9!?!?!?!!?!??? I cant beleive someone would have a card tampered with to have a 10.

perkdog · February 7, 2008 12:22AM

<< WOW! Guy wasnt happy enough with a 9!?!?!?!!?!??? I cant beleive someone would have a card tampered with to have a 10. >>

I was thinking the same thing!

TNTonPMS · February 7, 2008 12:25AM

"Now, if it were being reviewed for a grade bump, then that's another story."
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I think that is the more likely scenario,

RonBurgundy · February 7, 2008 12:26AM

More evidence of the greed and corruption that dirty up this hobby. The more dollars that are involved, the worse it is and there is absolutely zero regulation of it. It's sad, almost as if we've reached the other extreme from the pure innocence of pulling these cards out of packs as kids.

Ron

AlanAllen · February 7, 2008 12:28AM

It's clear from other details in the story that the reporter doesn't know WTF she's talking about. There's no way Dave Forman contracted with someone to trim a Mantle, and then stole it. Those 2 guys from Cincinnati with their fake Wagner have a more believable story.

Joe

TNTonPMS · February 7, 2008 12:29AM

I think the days of the " Pure innocence " are long gone .

It was well on it's way as soon as money became involved , especially big money like that .

I wonder if this guy will be able to get his card back ?

What stops him from sending him a different card ?

envoy98 · February 7, 2008 12:54AM

<< WOW! Guy wasnt happy enough with a 9!?!?!?!!?!??? I cant beleive someone would have a card tampered with to have a 10. >>

Let's see...
SGC 96 Mantle = $280k...
SGC 98 Mantle = 5x that amount? More?

It is very understandable why someone would want to get that card into a 10 holder. The story does make some sense, it's hard to believe that they (SGC) would work on restoring cards but it's been rumored that auction houses do it all the time and there are plenty of dealers that have done it for years. What a great marketing tool for SGC though. The only Perfect 10 Mantle rookie? The most recognized card in the whole world and it sits in an SGC holder? PSA has the Wagner...

It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. I am of the belief that all stories are usually rooted in some facts. This may be an instance of his Mantle being sent in for review and that's it.

stevek · February 7, 2008 12:58AM

<< WOW! Guy wasnt happy enough with a 9!?!?!?!!?!??? I cant beleive someone would have a card tampered with to have a 10. >>

I'm guessing Haas figured with the SGC owner involved, that the card would either stay a 9 or "become" a 10, so he couldn't lose. Well he figured wrong didn't he?

digicat · February 7, 2008 1:30AM

Not good. I suppose the reporter could have mistaken "Sent the card in for re-evaluation and a grade bump" to mean "Sent the card in for restoration to improve the grade", but if so, that's a horrible misunderstanding.

It's almost as bad as someone misunderstanding "My pregnant wife went in for a routine blood test" to mean 'My pregnant wife went in for a paternity test."

GOODLIEU · February 7, 2008 1:37AM

First off this whole story is probably written by a reporter who has no clue how are hobby works and right off the bat "assuming" that Mr Foreman somehow fixes cards for upgrades when it is more likely that the card was in for review and as it most instances when dealing with high value cards such as this the collector contacted the top person in charge to send or hand over the card too so there would be no chance that it would get lost in the mail. PSA's Joe Orlando I am sure has in the past met with collectors when cards such as these are either graded or reviewed for possible upgrades. As far as what happened to the card in question well as they say in court "There is two sides to every story" and until we here all the facts in regard too this situation I think all of us should reserve judgement.

Darin · February 7, 2008 1:43AM

It is very understandable why someone would want to get that card into a 10 holder. The story does make some sense, it's hard to believe that they (SGC) would work on restoring cards but it's been rumored that auction houses do it all the time and there are plenty of dealers that have done it for years. What a great marketing tool for SGC though. The only Perfect 10 Mantle rookie? The most recognized card in the whole world and it sits in an SGC holder? PSA has the Wagner...

The top Mantle registry guy has a PSA 10 Mantle, and has a scan of it. It looks beautiful.

jrinck · February 7, 2008 2:26AM

Most people can't tell a 9 from a 10, so why would they even have to risk it by doctoring it? Why not just change the grade?

Only a fool would try to doctor an already mint '52 Mantle.

Allen · February 7, 2008 2:39AM

I am pretty sure that gradeddream was trying to tell us that GAI was staying afloat because one of the guys running int barowed money and put up a Mantle among other cards as collateral. I think this is very likely an idiot reporter.

ajw · February 7, 2008 2:46AM

<< Not good. (snip) My pregnant wife went in for a paternity test. >>

Damn. Good luck with that one.

ajw · February 7, 2008 2:49AM

<< 

The top Mantle registry guy has a PSA 10 Mantle, and has a scan of it. It looks beautiful. >>

Here's the scan from Marshall Fogel's wonderful 1952 registry set and his #1 ranked Mantle basic set:

digicat · February 7, 2008 2:50AM

<< << Not good. (snip) My pregnant wife went in for a paternity test. >>

Damn. Good luck with that one. >>

Heh, are you a journalist?

WinPitcher · February 7, 2008 2:54AM

Wasn't Forman and Moser partners back in the day?

This whole story stinks. At the least something shadowy is going on.

I also agree that the reporter should get the facts b4 reporting inaccuracies.

Steve

stevek · February 7, 2008 3:06AM

Forman's last words to Haas might have been, "Ya f**ked up, ya trusted me"

yankeeno7 · February 7, 2008 3:20AM

I have heard of high profile auction houses taking raw vintage from potential customers(or cracking previously graded), doing "restoration" THEN sending into the grading companies. (Yup, apparently they know people that good). But if there is direct involvement with SGC then that could be a major problem.

stown · February 7, 2008 3:43AM

How come that other board isn't discussing this?

I mean, they are unbiased and impartial, right?

gosteelers · February 7, 2008 4:11AM

<< How come that other board isn't discussing this?

I mean, they are unbiased and impartial, right?

>>

They are, though...

Link to 'other' board

stown · February 7, 2008 4:29AM

<< 

<< How come that other board isn't discussing this?

I mean, they are unbiased and impartial, right?

>>

They are, though... >>

About 20 posts in over day when these allegations come up regarding their preferred TGP.

If this involved PSA, they would have over 100 posts by now.

You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

goudey33 · February 7, 2008 4:35AM

If it were to come out that there was something shady going on involving SGC and its employees, could it be the end of SGC?

carew4me · February 7, 2008 4:43AM

What a bunch of apologist over on Net54!

That giant sucking sound is the value of their "restored" pre-war cards going south.

You cannot put lipstick on this pig.

Like watching liberals justify the blue dress.

otwcards · February 7, 2008 4:47AM

<< Like watching liberals justify the blue dress. >>

They had to wipe it up with something . . .

BobS · February 7, 2008 5:16AM

new-linky

Looks like SGC is giving the card back, but there's still something fishy going on with the restoration aspect.

stown · February 7, 2008 5:27AM

This stinks!

Bunch of crooks if you ask me.

stevek · February 7, 2008 5:32AM

Company agrees to return Mickey Mantle card
BY PEGGY WRIGHT
DAILY RECORD
Thursday, February 7, 2008

A Parsippany-based sports card grading company agreed today to return a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle baseball card to its owner, who sued over the firm’s alleged refusal to give it back.

The Mickey Mantle rookie card, estimated to be worth at least $280,000, is owned by Sea Girt resident James O. Haas. Haas was in Superior Court, Morristown, this morning with attorney Judith Rosenthal to demand that Sportscard Guaranty Co. LLC return the card he gave it in July for the purposes of correcting some “slight imperfections” so its worth could be enhanced.

After consultation with attorney Gordon Graber, Sportscard President David Forman agreed to retrieve the card from a safety deposit box in Staten Island and have it moved, by the end of the business day Friday, to a bank in Morristown. The card will be examined and re-authenticated over the next month, attorneys for both sides have agreed.

Haas, 62, said he tried for months to get the card back but Forman stopped taking his calls and wouldn’t provide an explanation why he wouldn’t release the card. Graber, on behalf of Forman, told Superior Court Judge B. Theodore Bozonelis that Forman had examined the card, believed its condition could not be graded above a 9 — just below a perfect 10 — but wouldn’t return it unless Haas provided him with a release that the card was in the same condition as it was when he gave it to Sportscard.

Graber told the judge that comments popping up over the Internet that Sportscard may have intended to alter the card are considered defamatory by the company.

Haas, a majority shareholder in another baseball card grading company called Global Authentication, said he’ll be content when he has his card back.

“I’m a low, under-the-radar guy. I don’t want trouble. This was trouble,” said Haas, a 1963 West Point graduate.

digicat · February 7, 2008 5:34AM

Did you guys catch this little bit?

<< Haas [the owner of the Mantle], a majority shareholder in another baseball card grading company called Global Authentication... >>

stevek · February 7, 2008 5:35AM

<<< Graber told the judge that comments popping up over the Internet that Sportscard may have intended to alter the card are considered defamatory by the company. >>>

Aw shucks...sure seems to me like Forman got his hand caught in the cookie jar, and doesn't like it. Boo hoo!

gosteelers · February 7, 2008 5:36AM

<< Did you guys catch this little bit?

<< Haas [the owner of the Mantle], a majority shareholder in another baseball card grading company called Global Authentication... >>

>>

Isn't this old news? (at least the part about GAI loaning the Mantle to SGC for collateral purposes). Since GAI didn't come up with the $100k for the Mantle, how come they are getting it back?

stevek · February 7, 2008 5:41AM

<<< The Mickey Mantle rookie card, estimated to be worth at least $280,000, is owned by Sea Girt resident James O. Haas. Haas was in Superior Court, Morristown, this morning with attorney Judith Rosenthal to demand that Sportscard Guaranty Co. LLC return the card he gave it in July for the purposes of correcting some “slight imperfections” so its worth could be enhanced. >>>

<<< Graber told the judge that comments popping up over the Internet that Sportscard may have intended to alter the card are considered defamatory by the company. >>>

This guy should represent Roger Clemens.

tedh111 · February 7, 2008 5:42AM

Stevek, why are you assuming Foreman is guilty?? based on the errornus report in the article?

storm888 · February 7, 2008 5:59AM

"What a bunch of apologist over on Net54!"

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ebayaddict · February 7, 2008 6:00AM

ummmmmmm........i hope they restore some of my latest sumissions, but send them back to me. ")

WinPitcher · February 7, 2008 6:00AM

Company agrees to return Mickey Mantle card
BY PEGGY WRIGHT
DAILY RECORD
Thursday, February 7, 2008

2 Comments
A Parsippany-based sports card grading company agreed today to return a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle baseball card to its owner, who sued over the firm’s alleged refusal to give it back.

The Mickey Mantle rookie card, estimated to be worth at least $280,000, is owned by Sea Girt resident James O. Haas. Haas was in Superior Court, Morristown, this morning with attorney Judith Rosenthal to demand that Sportscard Guaranty Co. LLC return the card he gave it in July for the purposes of correcting some “slight imperfections” so its worth could be enhanced.

After consultation with attorney Gordon Graber, Sportscard President David Forman agreed to retrieve the card from a safety deposit box in Staten Island and have it moved, by the end of the business day Friday, to a bank in Morristown. The card will be examined and re-authenticated over the next month, attorneys for both sides have agreed.

Haas, 62, said he tried for months to get the card back but Forman stopped taking his calls and wouldn’t provide an explanation why he wouldn’t release the card. Graber, on behalf of Forman, told Superior Court Judge B. Theodore Bozonelis that Forman had examined the card, believed its condition could not be graded above a 9 — just below a perfect 10 — but wouldn’t return it unless Haas provided him with a release that the card was in the same condition as it was when he gave it to Sportscard.

Graber told the judge that comments popping up over the Internet that Sportscard may have intended to alter the card are considered defamatory by the company.

Haas, a majority shareholder in another baseball card grading company called Global Authentication, said he’ll be content when he has his card back.

“I’m a low, under-the-radar guy. I don’t want trouble. This was trouble,” said Haas, a 1963 West Point graduate.

gosteelers · February 7, 2008 6:01AM

<< "What a bunch of apologist over on Net54!"

////////////////////////////////////////////

>>

Yeah, that doesn't go on at all over here on the CU boards...

jrinck · February 7, 2008 6:11AM

<< 
"Haas was in Superior Court, Morristown, this morning with attorney Judith Rosenthal to demand that Sportscard Guaranty Co. LLC return the card he gave it in July for the purposes of correcting some “slight imperfections” so its worth could be enhanced."
>>

SGC will restore cards?

storm888 · February 7, 2008 6:12AM

"Yeah, that doesn't go on at all over here on the CU boards... "

//////////////////////////////////

Yes, it does.

CU is, however, NOT a dictatorship.

Posters here are given wide latitude to pump/bash.

CDsNuts · February 7, 2008 6:20AM

Ummmmmm, if he's a majority shareholder in GAI, why wouldn't he send it there? Certainly he would get a beneficial grade, not to mention the fact that it would be great press for the company to grade a mint Mantle RC. There's all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff going on here that we don't know about.