Probably a dumb question. If you can melt gold/silver coins how come you can't...
notlogical
Posts: 2,235 ✭
...melt cents?
Didn't I read some where that the Mint made it illegal to melt cents? If you can melt gold and silver and platinum coins, why not copper?
BTW, if I don't have any of this right just ignore the YN asking questions on a friday night.
Didn't I read some where that the Mint made it illegal to melt cents? If you can melt gold and silver and platinum coins, why not copper?
BTW, if I don't have any of this right just ignore the YN asking questions on a friday night.
What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics...
... "Fascinating, but not logical"
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
... "Fascinating, but not logical""Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
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It's not illegal if you don't get caught................
<< <i>It's not illegal if you don't get caught................
always good advice to a minor
<< <i>
<< <i>It's not illegal if you don't get caught................
always good advice to a minor
Please note - Post was meant in Jest only...............
One should never deface US Currency - whether it be for melting to obtain precious metals or for shipment overseas for same or for entertainment value such as placing on a railroad track!
The "short" answer is that the mint made it illegal to melt cents and nickels. (Frankly, I was surprised that the mint had this power, but it did.) The mint did not make it illegal to melt silver, gold, platnium, or cupro-nickel (=clad) coins.
The "long" answer is that the mint made it illegal only to melt coins that 1) circulated, and 2) had a value as metal that is greater than their face value. Of course, the goal of the mint is to keep cents and nickels in circulation, thereby avoiding a coin shortage and pressure on the mint to overcome the shortage.
The government is producing coins that are worth more at the recycler than at the coinstar machine, so they had to pass a law to make us criminals for using our heads to make money.
Did that coinfuse you ?
<< <i>...melt cents?
Didn't I read some where that the Mint made it illegal to melt cents? If you can melt gold and silver and platinum coins, why not copper?
>>
Because they wrote a regulation saying you can't, unless you want to be heavily fined or go to federal prison...
WASHINGTON — The United States Mint has implemented regulations to limit the exportation, melting, or treatment of one-cent (penny) and 5-cent (nickel) United States coins, to safeguard against a potential shortage of these coins in circulation. Specifically, the new regulations prohibit, with certain exceptions, the melting or treatment of all one-cent and 5-cent coins. The regulations also prohibit the unlicensed exportation of these coins, except that travelers may take up to $5 in these coins out of the country, and individuals may ship up to $100 in these coins out of the country in any one shipment for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes. The new regulations authorize a fine of not more than $10,000, or imprisonment of not more than five years, or both, against a person who knowingly violates the regulations. In addition, by law, any coins exported, melted, or treated in violation of the regulation shall be forfeited to the United States Government
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Because they wrote a regulation saying you can't, unless you want to be heavily fined or go to federal prison... >>
I know that only the legislature can make laws however I was not aware that the mint has the authority to promulgate a regulation about melting coins.
Apparently that is what they did, which then made it illegal to melt pennies or nickels. So far I still don't know what law it is which gives the mint that authority. Most likely they just made the rule and nobody has challenged it. I know I don't want to be the test case. I am also very suspicious that the manner in which the regulation was passed was mostly not proper and that it could very well be legal to melt them. Specifically, the process often includes publishing the proposed regulation in the Federal Register with a period of time for comments from the public.
-Fuzz
Cause the government says you can't, thats why.
Ray
<< <i>Melting cents, if done at a great enough rate, would put pressure on the economy whereas melting gold or silver coinage does not impact the economy. >>
Very doubtful. The % of cents that are all copper that are still in circulation is very small.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Given I live overseas, I am tempted to order $6 of nickels from the mint and see if they ship them to me. The notice does say for individuals... so it likely does not supply to a government agency.
Here's an interesting question. The US community is (relatively) small. We have several hundred, or perhaps a thousand, US Gov't employees in the Brussels area. If I made a run on say quarters, could I directly impact the local availability? Hit the change machines with $20s till empty a few days in a row. I doubt the cashier has an extre $1,000 of quarters sitting in a vault.
<< <i>Is it illegal to melt pure nickel Canadian nickels? Those must be worth well over 10 cents now. >>
That's a good question too!
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
<< <i>
<< <i>Melting cents, if done at a great enough rate, would put pressure on the economy whereas melting gold or silver coinage does not impact the economy. >>
Very doubtful. The % of cents that are all copper that are still in circulation is very small. >>
Perry, just curious how small you believe this population to be? I've read some articles that guesstimate, but it seems like I get one out of every four or five cents in change that's pre-1982. Could it be as high as 20-25%?
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I believe there was a similar rule or law concerning silver minors at the dawn of the clad era, but I may be mistaken.
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PS:
Defacing money, even cents and nickels is not illegal (unless you are marking the money with commercial advertising or hate speech, or if it is for the purpose of defrauding someone).
You can throw all your cents down a rat hole, but you can't melt them.
<< <i>Since when does the US Mint have the authority to enact such laws ? This sets a bad precedent. Only Congress has the authority to implement such legislation.
PS:
Defacing money, even cents and nickels is not illegal (unless you are marking the money with commercial advertising or hate speech, or if it is for the purpose of defrauding someone).
You can throw all your cents down a rat hole, but you can't melt them. >>
Check the Federal Register.
Most of the agencies and departments in the country make law all
the time. There are many laws against defacing currency but they
are not normally enforced. The exceptions have been shaving, sweat-
ing and otherwise removing metal from precious metal coins and some
advertising. It is likely that if you began alterring coin in some way as
to be insulting to people or to make them confusing about the denom-
inations or origin that you'd soon have the Secret Service at your door.
The link above will take you to most applicable laws and isn't too hard
to use with a little practice. Don't forget these are annual lists of laws
so you have to check older ones as well.
When this situation first arose with the silver coins, the US border agents were cooperating with The Canadians. If you had too much Canadian silver, entry to the USA would be denied and yu would be sent back to the Canadians. I wonder how legal that was.
Canadian nickels weigh 100 to the pound or 4.54 grams each while the US ones are 5 grams exactly. (Does this make you wonder who is metric and who is not?) Thus the pure nickel ones are worth 12 or 13 cents each. They were worth much more at the height of the nickel price runup. As a matter of fact pure nickel Canadian dimes and quarters (incidently quite current) were worth slighlty more than face for awhile.
The pure nickel five cent pieces are at least 25 years old now and pretty much out of circulation, but I always find some when I go to Canada. The Canadian government is making efforts to recover them and even the 25% nickel ones.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Thanks everybody, that makes "cents" now.
<< <i>Is it illegal to melt pure nickel Canadian nickels? Those must be worth well over 10 cents now. >>
That's a good question too!
Well I looked into this a little -- a pre-1981 Candian nickel is worth about 12 cents, with Nickel at about $12 a pound.
Interestingly, Nickel was a whopping $22 a pound a few months ago, making the pure nickel Candian nickel worth about 22 cents US, or 25 cents Candian at the time -- 5x face for a non-silver coin!!
Still could not find anything about whether melting 'em is legal, though.
good luck getting mexico to return anything exported... that they could make money on by melting them.