Someone scored on 1977 Ike $1 submission

cupronik · January 22, 2008 11:03AM

I noticed (via Ike $1 registry set pops) that someone scored BIG on a 1977-P Ike submission.
Pops went from 265 to 389 in MS66 and 5 to 13 in MS67! Wow! All I can say to the fortunate
submitter is, "KA-CHING!!"

taxbuster1040 · January 22, 2008 1:22PM

Makes you wonder how much is sitting around in vaults, doesnt it?

fc · January 22, 2008 1:29PM

could it have been a horde all sent in at once cracked out for
regrading?

but then a gem roll sounds more likely?

Barndog · January 22, 2008 1:39PM

doesn't that (or shouldn't that) make prices/value go down?

cladking · January 22, 2008 1:51PM

I lean toward thinking it's an error.

If not it must have been from a stupendous bag.

segoja · January 22, 2008 1:53PM

If it's real, the coins will show up soon.

I can say that after having looked thru many bags, there is no way that that many 67's would have come out of one bag.

I've looked thru bags that didn;t have a single 65, and that was years ago, long before Ikes had value in high grade

cupronik · January 22, 2008 4:19PM

I've seen rolls of drab, lackluster 77-P's , but I've also seen a couple of groups of 77-P's (20-40 coins)
that were exceptional. This was before I began slabbing Ikes in 1998.

wondercoin · January 22, 2008 4:23PM

Key date Pop 5 jumping to pop 13 on an MS67 Ike in a single day! Believe it or not, the only "safe" pop top Ikes any more are probably the Proofs. PCGS is simply not grading virtually any PR70DC's (other than an occasional "common" 78-S or 72-S Silver) these days. Meanwhile, the neat MS Ikes - pops are soaring. This is why the most expensive (non-pattern / non-error) Ike ever sold is now a Proof (and expect more of that).

Curious what James thinks of this new development?

Wondercoin

segoja · January 23, 2008 1:40AM

Not sure what soaring is defined as.

If I look at the pops of the proofs in 70, they have gone up over the last few years in significantly more quantity than the MS67 clads.

Let's examine, based on July 2006 Pops compared to today.

Proofs graded 70 DCAM in July 2006 there were a total of 71 coins. Now there are 94 coins, an increase of 23 or approx 35% increase in 18 months.

On the Clad MS67's, the 71-D went up by 1, the 76-D Type II went down one, and the 77-P by virtue of the 8 new coins and my making one went up 9. There were a total of 9 new MS67 Clads made or an increase of just under 10%. The old total was 91, now it is an even 100.

If I let the facts talk, and we assume pops of MS67 Clads are soaring by virtue of one single submission, then I'm struggling for the word to describe the pops on PR70DCAM Ikes, as they have increased in population 250% faster than the MS67 Clads during the last 18 months.

oxy8890 · January 23, 2008 1:43AM

<< could it have been a horde all sent in at once cracked out for
regrading?

but then a gem roll sounds more likely? >>

Good point FC but I think it was more like 10 gem rolls if this is correct!!

wondercoin · January 23, 2008 1:56AM

James - My comment did not just include clads - it included silver MS as well (e.g. 71-S MS68, 72-MS69, etc). Also, did you happen to see the number of Proof coins that were graded during the same period you reference the couple dozen PR70DC coins? How many thousands upon thousands upon thousands of coins (and those are just the PR69DC coins reported in the pop report)? What % of the Proofs graded PR70DC over the past year? Compare that to what % of the MS coins graded MS67 - MS69 top pop? The "250% comment is relevant only in the context of exactly how many total coins were submitted as well. For example, if Proof submissions increased by 2,500% over MS submissions and top pops increased by 250% for proofs, isn't that a different story than if there was a straight 250% increase on equal submissions? But, putting all of that aside - I deferred to you as I did want to hear your opinion on the situation. Having heard it - I have little more to add at this point. Keep us posted if you do see any trends developing on the MS side.

Wondercoin

cladking · January 23, 2008 2:13AM

<< If it's real, the coins will show up soon.

I can say that after having looked thru many bags, there is no way that that many 67's would have come out of one bag.

I've looked thru bags that didn;t have a single 65, and that was years ago, long before Ikes had value in high grade >>

I know you're right and this is why I have a great deal of doubt that it's real.

Suffice to say that this would represent the grandaddy of all hoards. It would
have to be nearly twice as large as ALL previous hoards combined. I knew of
some of the previous hoards so how did this one fly under the radar? It's not
impossible, especially if it came from rolls but this just doesn't seem likely.

There are some more hoards out there but I doubt there's anything even app-
roaching this magnitude unless it's a case of stupendously good luck.

keets · January 23, 2008 2:38AM

this is almost certainly the result of a hoard from either rolls or coins set aside over the years. the same thing happened in early 2003 with the 1973 Jefferson Nickel in PR69DCAM when numbers jumped from about 50 to almost 175 overnight and the price fell from $200+ to about $30 when the coins started to appear and the numbers became known. those with longer memories might also remember the affect the GSA had on certain Morgan Dollar dtaes when they were released in the early 1960's, so this isn't a Modern phenomenon. i half expect it to happen some day with some of the $20 Saints which are presumably held in European banks, but who knows. hoards are one of the great variables that makes the hobby so much fun!!!

19Lyds · January 23, 2008 2:53AM

<< I noticed (via Ike $1 registry set pops) that someone scored BIG on a 1977-P Ike submission.
Pops went from 265 to 389 in MS66 and 5 to 13 in MS67! Wow! All I can say to the fortunate
submitter is, "KA-CHING!!" >>

I just checked the pop reports and it looks like this has been corrected. Now shows 265 in MS66 and 5 in MS67 for the 1977.
243 in MS66 and 5 in MS67 for the 1977-D.

Type 1, Clad, MS PCGS No Date Den Variety Desig VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 Total
Total $1 MS 2 2 0 0 7 9 13 109 467 13 35 634 2,651 9,951 10,390 2,728 60 27,085
7406 1971 $1 MS 2 2 1 12 54 1 81 368 1,165 518 34 2,243
7407 1971-D $1 MS 1 1 1 8 70 1 2 35 228 1,120 1,905 682 15 4,074
87409 1972 $1 Type 1 MS 2 2 31 1 4 75 296 613 188 4 1,216
97409 1972 $1 Type 2 MS 3 2 1 40 118 11 149 284 248 34 5 895
7409 1972 $1 Type 3 MS 1 1 1 2 20 73 1 3 81 372 1,069 328 14 1,968
7410 1972-D $1 MS 1 1 1 16 60 1 43 154 653 965 254 5 2,156
7412 1973 $1 MS 4 3 1 19 146 830 761 72 1,836
7413 1973-D $1 MS 1 11 104 658 814 223 10 1,821
7415 1974 $1 MS 3 10 3 2 45 211 821 686 84 1,865
7416 1974-D $1 MS 1 1 17 2 19 108 568 1,055 350 14 2,135
7423 1977 $1 MS 1 1 2 4 1 1 12 94 596 860 265 5 1,842
7424 1977-D $1 MS 1 1 1 10 1 1 13 59 547 894 243 5 1,776
7425 1978 $1 MS 1 4 10 4 33 125 535 704 260 5 1,681
7426 1978-D $1 MS 1 2 6 2 1 18 102 528 678 238 1 1,577

keets · January 23, 2008 3:16AM

did i mention that it could also be a data entry error??

wondercoin · January 23, 2008 3:17AM

Or, possibly even an order that the grading was not entirely completed? Stay tuned.

Wondercoin

19Lyds · January 23, 2008 3:25AM

Hmmm. Just reread and perhaps the populations haven't been posted yet but then I think its natural to assume that the registry gets its information from the official population reports.

cupronik · January 23, 2008 3:28AM

My information is from the Ike $1 registry set. I believe the DAILY changes to the populations can be seen
on the set registries while the population reports themselves are updated WEEKLY around Sunday 12:00 am.
We will see this weekend.

cladking · January 23, 2008 3:29AM

<< Or, possibly even an order that the grading was not entirely completed? Stay tuned.

Wondercoin >>

If it was a hoard it wouldn't likely be the only date especially from mint sets.

I still believe it's an error though.

19Lyds · January 23, 2008 3:30AM

I sent BJ an email asking for clarification.

Gandyjai · January 23, 2008 3:37AM

Kind of reminds me of a couple of years ago when some one scored a boatload of
76-S MS68 Silvers....doubling the pops in MS68 and cutting prices from around $1,000
down to $500 or so.

However,...I think that as significant as that was.....I think this (if it is true) is an even
more astounding feat! That many Philly Ike 66's and 67's, all at once, just blows my mind!

Brian

I Love

Variety & Error Ikes!

19Lyds · January 23, 2008 4:16AM

BJ responded with "The Pop report updates once a week, wereas the Registry pulls new information every night."

Perhaps Monday morning this will post to the online pops.

Rampage · January 23, 2008 4:37AM

I just verified what the OP said and it is 389/13 for MS66/67. I'd love to see those 67s!

YaHa · January 23, 2008 5:38AM

Ikes are the fuglyest coins ever made.

19Lyds · January 23, 2008 11:58AM

Actually, this is exciting but a little disconcerting.

An MS67 IKE is definitely not something that folks come across everyday and here 8 have been made in aparently one submission. I suppose we'll find out soon enough who the submitter and owner is.

Additionally, 124 MS66's of the same year?

Holy Shrapnel BatMan!

I went years before making a single 66 for that year!

So lets tally it up:

1 MS68 1971-S
124 MS66 1977
8 MS67 1977

What else will this year hold for the Eisenhower Dollars??

PS: Your not being very nice Mr. YaHa!

itsnotjustme · January 25, 2008 3:27PM

It is real. See WOndercoins B/S/T thread!

LALASD4 · January 25, 2008 3:45PM

I see a big price drop in the future.

wondercoin · January 26, 2008 3:00AM

For the information of Ike collectors...

After reviewing the (8) freshly made PCGS-MS67 1977-P Ikes, I am returning (1) coin to my consignor next week so he can crack the coin out of the holder and promptly return the insert tag to PCGS. I will also PM James Sego this weekend with the specific serial number of this currently graded MS67 coin, which will be cracked out of the holder next week, so he can keep an eye on things and ensure that serial number is promptly removed from the pop report by PCGS.

This will result in the 1977-P Ike having a pop of 12 in MS67 once PCGS receives the insert tag back from the submittor of the batch next week and removes the coin from the data base.

Now, bear in mind that the decision to crack out this Ike is not intended to substitute our view on the grading of the batch against PCGS' professional grading. And, in fact, at some point in the future this cracked out coin might be resubmitted by the owner (that is entirely up to him) and should it grade MS67 again, might be resold as such.

Wondercoin

itsnotjustme · January 26, 2008 4:03AM

Mitch,
Do you think that one coin might go MS68, or MS66 when re-submitted? 68 is the case I suspect, and that would be an amazing score!!

19Lyds · January 26, 2008 4:04AM

<< Now, bear in mind that the decision to crack out this Ike is not intended to substitute our view on the grading of the batch against PCGS' professional grading. And, in fact, at some point in the future this cracked out coin might be resubmitted by the owner (that is entirely up to him) and should it grade MS67 again, might be resold as such. >>

OK, you lost me Mitch!

Why, specifically, is this coin being cracked out? What purpose is served other than to lower the pop reports, as you state, especially if you truly feel the coin is an MS67!

wondercoin · January 26, 2008 4:18AM

I have nothing more to add (other than responding to dbldie55's question over on the Registry forum and LR's question, which I just did). Pop should drop to 12 in a couple weeks.

Wondercoin.

bushmaster8 · February 11, 2008 1:05AM

A 67 last nite in Teletrade failed to meet the reserve of $5K. Not sure if this was one of that bunch.

Someone scored on 1977 Ike $1 submission

Comments

Leave a Comment