I have one platinum anniversary set at PCGS now, and I am planning to keep it for my collection. I also have one other FS set that I also was going to send to PCGS, but I really think I am going to send it back to the Mint. I will then save the money for the OWL and the EAGLE. Good choice, Eric?????
no telling how many of these coins will be melted if gold breaks $1,000 oz.
Swinging the topic back to platinum, I think that more opportunity exists in the "non-key" dates than is realized. The 2004 proof and the 2006 w uncirculated are recognized as the keys, and command a premium as such. Most other platinum coins, however, are widely available at little or no premium to melt.
For instance, the 1997 through 1999 platinum proof coins were issued as a 4 coin set for $1350. The mintage numbers average around 14,000 per coin, with a low for the 1999 $50 (11,103) to an extreme high for the 1997 $10 (36,993). These are big mintages by platinum proof standards, which in recent years trend to approximately 6,000 to 8,000 in each demonination (by which I'd estimate the current collector base as something around 7,000).
Meanwhile, platinum has increased substantially - a four coin set contains 1.85 ounces of platinum, with an approximate melt value of $2,870 at $1550 per ounce, an appreciation of 112% over the 1997-1999 issue price. For several years now, there has been little collector demand for these coins, esp. 1997 and 1998. In PF69 or lower, they generally trade at no premium to melt.
It stands to reason that at some point we could very well be talking about these coins in terms of surviving population.
NYCounsel - I have some (unverified) information that the 1 oz plats are not being melted nearly as much as the $10, $25 and $50 coins. I will continue to explore this situation.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I also have one other FS set that I also was going to send to PCGS, but I really think I am going to send it back to the Mint.
If it's in a sealed, first strike eligible box, you might want to see if anyone is interested in purchasing. On ebay, you'd need to get $2,050 to cover ebay/paypal fees to break even. A set recently sold as a buy it now for $2,150 (item 150205237215) - if you did the same, you could pocket $100 and keep the frequent flier miles. Or maybe you could find a buyer off ebay for more than the issue price. Might be worth a shot.
1,000 Gold spouse coins are now a couple lovely gold bars. How many more of these 500-1,000 coin "melts" might it take for these coins to become "scarce" one day? My guess is not for 5-10 years at least, but, no telling how many of these coins will be melted if gold breaks $1,000 oz.
For several years now, there has been little collector demand for these coins, esp. 1997 and 1998. In PF69 or lower, they generally trade at no premium to melt. It stands to reason that at some point we could very well be talking about these coins in terms of surviving population.
I have some (unverified) information that the 1 oz plats are not being melted nearly as much as the $10, $25 and $50 coins. I will continue to explore this situation.
Okay, maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake - but tell me why anyone would gather up a bunch of AGEs or APEs just to have them melted into bars? The coins are already assayed and nicely divisible. I am guessing that an industrial buyer would require bars, but still - it increases the cost when you do something like that, reducing the profit.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I have one platinum anniversary set at PCGS now, and I am planning to keep it for my collection. I also have one other FS set that I also was going to send to PCGS, but I really think I am going to send it back to the Mint. I will then save the money for the OWL and the EAGLE. Good choice, Eric????? >>
Puritan as you know I have nothing against plats. The anniversary set is a nice set and its great to hold in a collection . But you don't want more than one. Save your money for the 2008 proof plats or pick up cheap 2006-w and 2007-w.
FLBUFF brings up earlier in the thread the price performance of what I call "sympathy" coins with higher mintages
Jackie $5 PROOF CVC $5 PROOF SMITHSONIAN $5 PROOF
These coins bring what they do - due to the true rarities, the UNCS, being launched into the stratosphere in price.......and collectors requiring one of the type....thus the demand on the proof......and hence called SYMPATHY coins.
If the Uncs were reasonably cheaper, let's say no more than 2-3x issue, the proofs would be selling for melt.
<< <i>FLBUFF brings up earlier in the thread the price performance of what I call "sympathy" coins with higher mintages
Jackie $5 PROOF CVC $5 PROOF SMITHSONIAN $5 PROOF
These coins bring what they do - due to the true rarities, the UNCS, being launched into the stratosphere in price.......and collectors requiring one of the type....thus the demand on the proof......and hence called SYMPATHY coins.
If the Uncs were reasonably cheaper, let's say no more than 2-3x issue, the proofs would be selling for melt. >>
I say it's because those coins are the lowest mintage Proofs commemoratives of their type. Collectors usually collect one or the other, Proof always sell more than the Uncs (usually by 2:1) since they are the more popular option so naturally the Uncs will have a lower mintage as they always do. The First Spouse coins being the only exception with the equal minatge between both options.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>Right but if you spent the same money in the same year of issue on the coins with mintages in the 10,000 and less mintage range you would have been WAY WAY ahead of the higher mintage coins. The higher mintage coins do not perform as well as the lower mintage coins as they mature. Granted one series has larger total pops and resulting collector bases than other series do. Thats not the issue. Rarity in the series in question is the issue. Take the blinders off.
FBH I have little doubt you have a load of 20,000 mintage Adams and Washington first hags and more than likely multiple sets of the most common changing reverse plats ever struck and I wish you good luck with them because you are and the people that listen to you are going to need it.
Ericj96 >>
Your analysis on the platinum issues relies on the collector base growing, wether that happens or not is to be seen. What I do know is, at 20,000 the First Spouse in Proof are among the lowest mintage gold series of any coins the Mint has ever struck and also the lowest mintage Proof gold commemoratives ever. If future First Spouse issues would result in a non-sellout and a mintage of fewer than 20,000 Proofs that would also result in them being the keys to the series which is already based on some the lowest mintage gold designs the Mint has ever produced and have the distinction of being the first changing reverse series struck in pure gold which collectors prefer and also being the first series hononring women. Since the series has just begun, you have the chance of putting together a perfect set of the lowest mintage Proofs the Mint has ever offered at Mint cost plus grading. There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are lowest minatge coins of their type and I for one think the entire set in it's highest grade will go for much more than your cost from Mint plus grading as they do now. >>
Buff, I think you conceded in an earlier thread that these were bullion coins and in fact noted that they were not part of the PCGS commemortive registry. Yet you conntinue to refer to them as commemoratives. What gives?
I will agree with your statement that "There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are the lowest minatge coins of their type..." Heck they are the only coins of their type. Bullion with dead presidents wives on them. The theme doesn't generate much excitement or long term commitment from collectors. In my opinion it was a two coin flipping opportunity. The only part of the series that will have any legs will be the four coins that don't show the dead presidents wives. In my opinion it is a pretty pathetic theme for a coin series. But that is just my opinion. I am sure there are others like yourself that are very enthusiatic about it. To each his own.
Buff, I think you conceded in an earlier thread that these were bullion coins and in fact noted that they were not part of the PCGS commemortive registry. Yet you conntinue to refer to them as commemoratives. What gives?
I will agree with your statement that "There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are the lowest minatge coins of their type..." Heck they are the only coins of their type. Bullion with dead presidents wives on them. The theme doesn't generate much excitement or long term commitment from collectors. In my opinion it was a two coin flipping opportunity. The only part of the series that will have any legs will be the four coins that don't show the dead presidents wives. In my opinion it is a pretty pathetic theme for a coin series. But that is just my opinion. I am sure there are others like yourself that are very enthusiatic about it. To each his own.
Buff,
You continuously mention how First Spouse coins are the lowest mintage commems; but, who died and made them part of that set to begin with? Yes they are 20,000 mintage; but, for how long? In a series where all the coins have a 20,000 mintage, the one with a 19,999 mintage coin will be the key date! What is so great about 20,000 mintage when that is the maximum possible allowable for that finish on that series? Apples and Oranges Buff, make up your mind. Some of us here put long hours doing research about what we like. Reading CW and NN for ten minutes does not constitute research at all.
<< <i>Buff, I think you conceded in an earlier thread that these were bullion coins and in fact noted that they were not part of the PCGS commemortive registry. Yet you conntinue to refer to them as commemoratives. What gives?
I will agree with your statement that "There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are the lowest minatge coins of their type..." Heck they are the only coins of their type. Bullion with dead presidents wives on them. The theme doesn't generate much excitement or long term commitment from collectors. In my opinion it was a two coin flipping opportunity. The only part of the series that will have any legs will be the four coins that don't show the dead presidents wives. In my opinion it is a pretty pathetic theme for a coin series. But that is just my opinion. I am sure there are others like yourself that are very enthusiatic about it. To each his own.
Buff,
You continuously mention how First Spouse coins are the lowest mintage commems; but, who died and made them part of that set to begin with? Yes they are 20,000 mintage; but, for how long? In a series where all the coins have a 20,000 mintage, the one with a 19,999 mintage coin will be the key date! What is so great about 20,000 mintage when that is the maximum possible allowable for that finish on that series? Apples and Oranges Buff, make up your mind. Some of us here put long hours doing research about what we like. Reading CW and NN for ten minutes does not constitute research at all. >>
The First Spouse are most certainly gold commemorative type coins as refered to by the legislation that authorized them and are listed as gold commemoratives by both PCGS and NGC.
In addition to being the lowest mintage gold commemorative type coins, they are one of the lowest mintage series of coins struck in gold along with being the first pure gold coin series with individual coins, which IMO have fantastic designs and each coin in the series being completly unique. If they have a mintage fewer than 20,000 coins then that would make them even rarer gold commemorative type issues. I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69).
The First Spouse are most certainly gold commemorative type coins as refered to by the legislation that authorized them and are listed as gold commemoratives by both PCGS and NGC.
Hmm. Gold Commemorative? Yes. Part of "The Gold Commemorative Set"? No. They are part of their own Gold Commemorative set (not to be confused with the set that holds Jackie Robinson in it). Apples vs Oranges (Modern Gold Commems vs First Spouse set). Even the mint sells them in different categories (there's a reason for that - two different sets, two different categories)...
<< <i>I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69). >>
Exactly, the difference being you can buy the First Spouse Proofs from the Mint and have them graded to complete your perfect set. To do that with the platinum Proof issues you would need to go in the aftermarket and it would cost you major $. Since 95% of ultra modern bullion 69's will trade for spot except for the key dates in a series, for one of the lowest mintage gold Proof type sets the Mint has ever offered a PCGS 70 set has the best chance of appreciating and IMO, a better chance than a platinum Proof 69 set.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69). >>
Exactly, the difference being you can buy the First Spouse Proofs from the Mint and have them graded to complete your perfect set. To do that with the platinum Proof issues you would need to go in the aftermarket and it would cost you major $. Since 95% of ultra modern bullion 69's will trade for spot except for the key dates in a series, for one of the lowest mintage gold Proof type sets the Mint has ever offered a PCGS 70 set has the best chance of appreciating and IMO, a better chance than a platinum Proof 69 set. >>
Bwahahahha!!! Buff you crack me up! I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price.
I'm thinking the proof plat set in semi perfect grades (some 69's, some 70's as delivered from the mint to me) will blow your perfect hag set away. Time will tell.
I picked the 1/4 ounce plat because it is similar in issue price to the hags.
<< <i>Bwahahahha!!! Buff you crack me up! I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price.
I'm thinking the proof plat set in semi perfect grades (some 69's, some 70's as delivered from the mint to me) will blow your perfect hag set away. Time will tell.
I picked the 1/4 ounce plat because it is similar in issue price to the hags. >>
Buy what you like, everybody has their own prejudices. Neither you nor I know which way the market is going to go. What I do know is 95% of modern bullion 69's will trade for around spot (and there are no guarantees where platinum or gold will be in 10 years) except for key dates. In that sense a perfect set of the lowest minatges pure gold Proof commemorative type coins has alot going for it IMO.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69). >>
Exactly, the difference being you can buy the First Spouse Proofs from the Mint and have them graded to complete your perfect set. To do that with the platinum Proof issues you would need to go in the aftermarket and it would cost you major $. Since 95% of ultra modern bullion 69's will trade for spot except for the key dates in a series, for one of the lowest mintage gold Proof type sets the Mint has ever offered a PCGS 70 set has the best chance of appreciating and IMO, a better chance than a platinum Proof 69 set. >>
Bwahahahha!!! Buff you crack me up! I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price.
I'm thinking the proof plat set in semi perfect grades (some 69's, some 70's as delivered from the mint to me) will blow your perfect hag set away. Time will tell.
I picked the 1/4 ounce plat because it is similar in issue price to the hags. >>
To be fair, you'd have to start with the 2007 Platinum. The same year the Spouses started.
As of now, I'd say a set of Spouse Proof First Strike 70's from PCGS will cost you atleast $4000. That's more then double.
How much is a set of 2007 70's Proof Plat's going for ??
<< <i>To be fair, you'd have to start with the 2007 Platinum. The same year the Spouses started.
As of now, I'd say a set of Spouse Proof First Strike 70's from PCGS will cost you atleast $4000. That's more then double.
How much is a set of 2007 70's Proof Plat's going for ?? >>
That is not a fair comparison since I doubt most people collect all the denominations of the platinum Proofs in a 70 grade. 2007 also being one year in an ongoing series as well. But to answer your question using the PCGS price guide, the 2006-W platinum Proofs in a First StrikeSM 70 grade are listed at $11,550 for all four coins (there is no pricing on the 2007-W platinum Proofs). The First two First Spouse coins in a First StrikeSM 70 are listed at $1,150 for Martha Washington $1,500 for Abiagail Adams, assuming $1,200 for the Jefferson's Liberty and $2,000 for the Dolley Madison (there is no pricing for those two and the Dolley Madison is the key so far of the First StrikeSM sets with only 51 in a 70) that would make a total of $5,650 for the first four issues.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
And with an average of 9% 70 ratio for the 2006-W platinum Proofs vs 22% 70 ratio for the First Spouse Proofs, you would also need to grade more than twice as many coins in order to complete a 70 set with the 69's being a losing proposition in terms of resale value.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
And with an average of 9% 70 ratio for the 2006-W platinum Proofs vs 22% 70 ratio for the First Spouse Proofs, you would also need to grade more than twice as many coins in order to complete a 70 set with the 69's being a losing proposition in terms of resale value. >>
So does that mean that the existing 70 plat sets will escalate in value much faster because there is a lower grade through rate, thus making them more scarce for the existing collector base.
Speaking of collector base, there are probably 6000 plat collectors as a core group. There are probably 16000 core Spouse collectors(non-flippers). Much larger base to absorb the higher grade rate of the Spouses. Shouldn't that drive prices higher than the plats? Which series has a growing collector base and which has a declining collector base?
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
Your original quote was:
" I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price. "
The Spouses needed four coins to be purchased. I guess you could buy four 1/4 oz Platinums. That would be about the same price, plus you said some of yours might be 69's. All the spouses will be 70's. All increases based on percentage increase.
I'd have to place my bet on a full set of First Strike Proof PCGS 70's Spouses, then four 1/4 oz Platinums, graded 69/70, as the best possibility of price appreciation.
<< <i>So does that mean that the existing 70 plat sets will escalate in value much faster because there is a lower grade through rate, thus making them more scarce for the existing collector base.
Speaking of collector base, there are probably 6000 plat collectors as a core group. Are there 6000 core Spouse collectors?. Which series has a growing collector base and which has a declining collector base? >>
If you got the money to put together a complete 70 Proof platinum set by all means go for it since in the 70 grade they will be rare. Given the platinum issues have been out for over 10 years the collector base is much more established. The First Spouse issues are just getting statred though Mint research indicated there would be 5,000 - 10,000 collectors of the entire series. How many of those will want a complete perfect set is to be seen however going by current aftermarket prices for the First StrikeSM 70 Proof issues I would say the demand exceeds the available supply of First StrikeSM Spouse 70 issues.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
Your original quote was:
" I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price. "
The Spouses needed four coins to be purchased. I guess you could buy four 1/4 oz Platinums. That would be about the same price, plus you said some of yours might be 69's. All the spouses will be 70's. All increases based on percentage increase.
I'd have to place my bet on a full set of First Strike Proof PCGS 70's Spouses, then four 1/4 oz Platinums, graded 69/70, as the best possibility of price appreciation. >>
I was on the up&up on this set, but seeing these awful prices Rp70&proof69 sold for 2249. Prices fallen and I don't know if thier is a market for the prices to go back up??????Concerned...but for now I'll hold on to my set.
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
Your original quote was:
" I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price. "
The Spouses needed four coins to be purchased. I guess you could buy four 1/4 oz Platinums. That would be about the same price, plus you said some of yours might be 69's. All the spouses will be 70's. All increases based on percentage increase.
I'd have to place my bet on a full set of First Strike Proof PCGS 70's Spouses, then four 1/4 oz Platinums, graded 69/70, as the best possibility of price appreciation. >>
>>
I don't know, per my original quote, I'd still bet a complete 20 year run set of 1/4 oz platinums scattered in 69/70 over a 10 year run of 70 Hags (the plats will be half the number of coins, twice the value). The 70 hags with their high grade thru rate won't perform near as well as my 2003/2004/2005 plats. Those three coins alone should carry me to victory. The 70 hags might go for 2x the price of 69 ( with the 69 being melt)
<< <i>I don't know, per my original quote, I'd still bet a complete 20 year run set of 1/4 oz platinums scattered in 69/70 over a 10 year run of 70 Hags (the plats will be half the number of coins, twice the value). The 70 hags with their high grade thru rate won't perform near as well as my 2003/2004/2005 plats. Those three coins alone should carry me to victory. The 70 hags might go for 2x the price of 69 ( with the 69 being melt) >>
Using the PCGS price guide, the only $25 platinum Proof to have a substantial premium above the others in a 69 grade is the 2004. Every other platinum Proof is listed at the same price (meaning melt) within $20 in a 69 with a small premim for the 2003, 2005 and 2006. I am sure the key of the First Spouse Proofs will also command a premium in a 69 compared to the rest of the issues.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
Correct but the key to the first hags will not be Adams and Washington. There will be some great coins in the first hag set but they will be much lower mintage than 20,000 coins.
I believe most future collectors will more likely be intrigued by low mintage bullion coins of 21st century and that would be the Platinums unless the cost of buying Platinum coins become prohibitive.
<< <i>Correct but the key to the first hags will not be Adams and Washington. There will be some great coins in the first hag set but they will be much lower mintage than 20,000 coins. >>
The first two spouse coins may not be the key to the set if the remaining spouses fail to selloutI though IMO, in a PCGS First StrikeSM Proof 70 they will be great coins given the historically record low mintage for any Proof gold issues. Since fewer collectors were able to obtain the first three First Spouse coins from the Mint with the fastest sellout ever recordered, if they are looking to complete a set they will still need those two to complete the set.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>I don't know, per my original quote, I'd still bet a complete 20 year run set of 1/4 oz platinums scattered in 69/70 over a 10 year run of 70 Hags (the plats will be half the number of coins, twice the value). The 70 hags with their high grade thru rate won't perform near as well as my 2003/2004/2005 plats. Those three coins alone should carry me to victory. The 70 hags might go for 2x the price of 69 ( with the 69 being melt) >>
Using the PCGS price guide, the only $25 platinum Proof to have a substantial premium above the others in a 69 grade is the 2004. Every other platinum Proof is listed at the same price (meaning melt) within $20 in a 69 with a small premim for the 2003, 2005 and 2006. I am sure the key of the First Spouse Proofs will also command a premium in a 69 compared to the rest of the issues.
>>
give it time baby, give it time theres only so many plats to go around. with an increasing collector base, the only direction for the prices is up.
What if all of the hags continue to be available until the full mintage is sold. Think 1999 Susan B Anthony Proof or 2001 Kennedy Halves or any of the unsold State Quarter FDCC. Thats a 40K available mintage for all of them. Will the collector base be that high to absorb them. My money is with the plats.
<< <i>I believe most future collectors will more likely be intrigued by low mintage bullion coins of 21st century and that would be the Platinums unless the cost of buying Platinum coins become prohibitive. >>
The First Spouse coins as a series are the lowest mintage gold series ever offered by the Mint and even at 20,000 the First Spouse Proofs are also among the lowest mintage gold Proof coins in this century or last.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>give it time baby, give it time theres only so many plats to go around. with an increasing collector base, the only direction for the prices is up >>
Funny, I say the same thing about the First StrikeSM Proof 70's
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
I see a lot of debate here on whether this set is a keeper but I also see a lot of different criteria’s as to what a keeper is.
Obviously we have the short term speculator that that maybe cannot afford to lay out 2K every time the friggin Mint throws out a new product. These people are hoping for a quick turnover and make a little cash. Not a bad strategy but I think with this set, you have to make at least one 70 to come ahead but if not you can still crack them and return them to the Mint.
Another group is looking to maximize their investment over the short to medium time frame and is concerned whether this set will increase in value or sell for spot which is around a $500 loss. Legitimate concern if you ask me. We could see a correction in platinum and it could get bloody. There are dozens of reasons why I do not believe that would happen but what the hell do I know?
Others see it as a long term investment recognizing that even though the relatively high mintage is not as desirable as a lower one but the platinum reverse is after all the first such platinum coin ever offered but the US. Many within this group are also collectors that need these coins to complete existing platinum collections and have a long term view of the value of these coins.
Frankly, I don’t see a downside to ANY of these views. Do you?
What most people fail to realize is that there will be a massive selloff of the First Spouse collections when their owners finally realize that they will have to buy a Hillary Clinton coin.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>give it time baby, give it time theres only so many plats to go around. with an increasing collector base, the only direction for the prices is up >>
Funny, I say the same thing about the First StrikeSM Proof 70's >>
From what I've seen, the 10th aniversary Plat sets have been a financial disaster.
In either the Mint packaging or slabbed, they seem to be money losers.
So far, I've never bought direct from the US Mint, always bought on the secondary market and usually cheaper than the issue price.
This set was one I had seriously considered, but as of now, I'm glad I kept my record at zero.
I just wonder how many have been returned in the last couple of months?
I know one CU member that recently sent his back just under the deadline.
Sure, you could hold it for X amount of time and wait for the spot price to bring you to break even or a profit.
I think you could do much better with either silver or gold over that same time frame. And no, I wouldn't buy those from the US Mint either.
Cheaper on the secondary market. Every modern proof gold coin I own, I bought based on the spot price plus a few bucks.
If you just want to collect a set of proofs, fine. However, the issue price is absurd when they can be found for so much less on the secondary market.
* There's always an exception to the rule and in this case it would be the 20th aniversary Silver Eagles with the reverse proof. I was fortunate to be given one as a gift and I also bought another, unopened and still sealed in the shipping package for $110. *
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Comments
Swinging the topic back to platinum, I think that more opportunity exists in the "non-key" dates than is realized. The 2004 proof and the 2006 w uncirculated are recognized as the keys, and command a premium as such. Most other platinum coins, however, are widely available at little or no premium to melt.
For instance, the 1997 through 1999 platinum proof coins were issued as a 4 coin set for $1350. The mintage numbers average around 14,000 per coin, with a low for the 1999 $50 (11,103) to an extreme high for the 1997 $10 (36,993). These are big mintages by platinum proof standards, which in recent years trend to approximately 6,000 to 8,000 in each demonination (by which I'd estimate the current collector base as something around 7,000).
Meanwhile, platinum has increased substantially - a four coin set contains 1.85 ounces of platinum, with an approximate melt value of $2,870 at $1550 per ounce, an appreciation of 112% over the 1997-1999 issue price. For several years now, there has been little collector demand for these coins, esp. 1997 and 1998. In PF69 or lower, they generally trade at no premium to melt.
It stands to reason that at some point we could very well be talking about these coins in terms of surviving population.
Wondercoin
If it's in a sealed, first strike eligible box, you might want to see if anyone is interested in purchasing. On ebay, you'd need to get $2,050 to cover ebay/paypal fees to break even. A set recently sold as a buy it now for $2,150 (item 150205237215) - if you did the same, you could pocket $100 and keep the frequent flier miles. Or maybe you could find a buyer off ebay for more than the issue price. Might be worth a shot.
That's interesting. I wouldn't have guessed there would be any discrimination by denomination.
There were far too many 1997 $10 coins though, so they should be the first to go!
For several years now, there has been little collector demand for these coins, esp. 1997 and 1998. In PF69 or lower, they generally trade at no premium to melt. It stands to reason that at some point we could very well be talking about these coins in terms of surviving population.
I have some (unverified) information that the 1 oz plats are not being melted nearly as much as the $10, $25 and $50 coins. I will continue to explore this situation.
Okay, maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake - but tell me why anyone would gather up a bunch of AGEs or APEs just to have them melted into bars? The coins are already assayed and nicely divisible. I am guessing that an industrial buyer would require bars, but still - it increases the cost when you do something like that, reducing the profit.
I knew it would happen.
Wondercoin
using the term melt to describe converting it to a non-numismatic use. platinum, among other things, is used for jewelry and various industrial uses.
<< <i>I have one platinum anniversary set at PCGS now, and I am planning to keep it for my collection. I also have one other FS set that I also was going to send to PCGS, but I really think I am going to send it back to the Mint. I will then save the money for the OWL and the EAGLE. Good choice, Eric????? >>
Puritan as you know I have nothing against plats. The anniversary set is a nice set and its great to hold in a collection . But you don't want more than one. Save your money for the 2008 proof plats or pick up cheap 2006-w and 2007-w.
Best wishes.
ericj96
10th Anni set 70
Jackie $5 PROOF
CVC $5 PROOF
SMITHSONIAN $5 PROOF
These coins bring what they do - due to the true rarities, the UNCS, being launched into the stratosphere in price.......and collectors requiring one of the type....thus the demand on the proof......and hence called SYMPATHY coins.
If the Uncs were reasonably cheaper, let's say no more than 2-3x issue, the proofs would be selling for melt.
<< <i>FLBUFF brings up earlier in the thread the price performance of what I call "sympathy" coins with higher mintages
Jackie $5 PROOF
CVC $5 PROOF
SMITHSONIAN $5 PROOF
These coins bring what they do - due to the true rarities, the UNCS, being launched into the stratosphere in price.......and collectors requiring one of the type....thus the demand on the proof......and hence called SYMPATHY coins.
If the Uncs were reasonably cheaper, let's say no more than 2-3x issue, the proofs would be selling for melt. >>
I say it's because those coins are the lowest mintage Proofs commemoratives of their type. Collectors usually collect one or the other, Proof always sell more than the Uncs (usually by 2:1) since they are the more popular option so naturally the Uncs will have a lower mintage as they always do. The First Spouse coins being the only exception with the equal minatge between both options.
<< <i>
<< <i>Right but if you spent the same money in the same year of issue on the coins with mintages in the 10,000 and less mintage range you would have been WAY WAY ahead of the higher mintage coins. The higher mintage coins do not perform as well as the lower mintage coins as they mature. Granted one series has larger total pops and resulting collector bases than other series do. Thats not the issue. Rarity in the series in question is the issue. Take the blinders off.
FBH I have little doubt you have a load of 20,000 mintage Adams and Washington first hags and more than likely multiple sets of the most common changing reverse plats ever struck and I wish you good luck with them because you are and the people that listen to you are going to need it.
Ericj96 >>
Your analysis on the platinum issues relies on the collector base growing, wether that happens or not is to be seen. What I do know is, at 20,000 the First Spouse in Proof are among the lowest mintage gold series of any coins the Mint has ever struck and also the lowest mintage Proof gold commemoratives ever. If future First Spouse issues would result in a non-sellout and a mintage of fewer than 20,000 Proofs that would also result in them being the keys to the series which is already based on some the lowest mintage gold designs the Mint has ever produced and have the distinction of being the first changing reverse series struck in pure gold which collectors prefer and also being the first series hononring women. Since the series has just begun, you have the chance of putting together a perfect set of the lowest mintage Proofs the Mint has ever offered at Mint cost plus grading. There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are lowest minatge coins of their type and I for one think the entire set in it's highest grade will go for much more than your cost from Mint plus grading as they do now. >>
Buff, I think you conceded in an earlier thread that these were bullion coins and in fact noted that they were not part of the PCGS commemortive registry. Yet you conntinue to refer to them as commemoratives. What gives?
I will agree with your statement that "There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are the lowest minatge coins of their type..." Heck they are the only coins of their type. Bullion with dead presidents wives on them. The theme doesn't generate much excitement or long term commitment from collectors. In my opinion it was a two coin flipping opportunity. The only part of the series that will have any legs will be the four coins that don't show the dead presidents wives. In my opinion it is a pretty pathetic theme for a coin series. But that is just my opinion. I am sure there are others like yourself that are very enthusiatic about it. To each his own.
I will agree with your statement that "There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are the lowest minatge coins of their type..." Heck they are the only coins of their type. Bullion with dead presidents wives on them. The theme doesn't generate much excitement or long term commitment from collectors. In my opinion it was a two coin flipping opportunity. The only part of the series that will have any legs will be the four coins that don't show the dead presidents wives. In my opinion it is a pretty pathetic theme for a coin series. But that is just my opinion. I am sure there are others like yourself that are very enthusiatic about it. To each his own.
Buff,
You continuously mention how First Spouse coins are the lowest mintage commems; but, who died and made them part of that set to begin with? Yes they are 20,000 mintage; but, for how long? In a series where all the coins have a 20,000 mintage, the one with a 19,999 mintage coin will be the key date! What is so great about 20,000 mintage when that is the maximum possible allowable for that finish on that series? Apples and Oranges Buff, make up your mind. Some of us here put long hours doing research about what we like. Reading CW and NN for ten minutes does not constitute research at all.
<< <i>Buff, I think you conceded in an earlier thread that these were bullion coins and in fact noted that they were not part of the PCGS commemortive registry. Yet you conntinue to refer to them as commemoratives. What gives?
I will agree with your statement that "There is no question the First Spouse Proofs are the lowest minatge coins of their type..." Heck they are the only coins of their type. Bullion with dead presidents wives on them. The theme doesn't generate much excitement or long term commitment from collectors. In my opinion it was a two coin flipping opportunity. The only part of the series that will have any legs will be the four coins that don't show the dead presidents wives. In my opinion it is a pretty pathetic theme for a coin series. But that is just my opinion. I am sure there are others like yourself that are very enthusiatic about it. To each his own.
Buff,
You continuously mention how First Spouse coins are the lowest mintage commems; but, who died and made them part of that set to begin with? Yes they are 20,000 mintage; but, for how long? In a series where all the coins have a 20,000 mintage, the one with a 19,999 mintage coin will be the key date! What is so great about 20,000 mintage when that is the maximum possible allowable for that finish on that series? Apples and Oranges Buff, make up your mind. Some of us here put long hours doing research about what we like. Reading CW and NN for ten minutes does not constitute research at all. >>
The First Spouse are most certainly gold commemorative type coins as refered to by the legislation that authorized them and are listed as gold commemoratives by both PCGS and NGC.
In addition to being the lowest mintage gold commemorative type coins, they are one of the lowest mintage series of coins struck in gold along with being the first pure gold coin series with individual coins, which IMO have fantastic designs and each coin in the series being completly unique. If they have a mintage fewer than 20,000 coins then that would make them even rarer gold commemorative type issues. I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
for one coin
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69).
The First Spouse are most certainly gold commemorative type coins as refered to by the legislation that authorized them and are listed as gold commemoratives by both PCGS and NGC.
Hmm. Gold Commemorative? Yes. Part of "The Gold Commemorative Set"? No. They are part of their own Gold Commemorative set (not to be confused with the set that holds Jackie Robinson in it). Apples vs Oranges (Modern Gold Commems vs First Spouse set). Even the mint sells them in different categories (there's a reason for that - two different sets, two different categories)...
<< <i>I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69). >>
Exactly, the difference being you can buy the First Spouse Proofs from the Mint and have them graded to complete your perfect set. To do that with the platinum Proof issues you would need to go in the aftermarket and it would cost you major $. Since 95% of ultra modern bullion 69's will trade for spot except for the key dates in a series, for one of the lowest mintage gold Proof type sets the Mint has ever offered a PCGS 70 set has the best chance of appreciating and IMO, a better chance than a platinum Proof 69 set.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69). >>
Exactly, the difference being you can buy the First Spouse Proofs from the Mint and have them graded to complete your perfect set. To do that with the platinum Proof issues you would need to go in the aftermarket and it would cost you major $. Since 95% of ultra modern bullion 69's will trade for spot except for the key dates in a series, for one of the lowest mintage gold Proof type sets the Mint has ever offered a PCGS 70 set has the best chance of appreciating and IMO, a better chance than a platinum Proof 69 set. >>
Bwahahahha!!! Buff you crack me up! I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price.
I'm thinking the proof plat set in semi perfect grades (some 69's, some 70's as delivered from the mint to me) will blow your perfect hag set away. Time will tell.
I picked the 1/4 ounce plat because it is similar in issue price to the hags.
<< <i>Bwahahahha!!! Buff you crack me up! I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price.
I'm thinking the proof plat set in semi perfect grades (some 69's, some 70's as delivered from the mint to me) will blow your perfect hag set away. Time will tell.
I picked the 1/4 ounce plat because it is similar in issue price to the hags. >>
Buy what you like, everybody has their own prejudices. Neither you nor I know which way the market is going to go. What I do know is 95% of modern bullion 69's will trade for around spot (and there are no guarantees where platinum or gold will be in 10 years) except for key dates. In that sense a perfect set of the lowest minatges pure gold Proof commemorative type coins has alot going for it IMO.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I have no doubt that a perfect PCGS graded Proof set of First Spouse is a wothwhile investment given you can obtain the coins at Mint cost plus grading fee. Something which I cannot say the platinum Proofs in a 69 are.
Hmm. First Spouse in perfect PCGS graded state vs Platinum Proofs in 69. Interesting comparison. Apples vs Oranges (either compare 70 vs 70 or 69 vs 69). >>
Exactly, the difference being you can buy the First Spouse Proofs from the Mint and have them graded to complete your perfect set. To do that with the platinum Proof issues you would need to go in the aftermarket and it would cost you major $. Since 95% of ultra modern bullion 69's will trade for spot except for the key dates in a series, for one of the lowest mintage gold Proof type sets the Mint has ever offered a PCGS 70 set has the best chance of appreciating and IMO, a better chance than a platinum Proof 69 set. >>
Bwahahahha!!! Buff you crack me up! I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price.
I'm thinking the proof plat set in semi perfect grades (some 69's, some 70's as delivered from the mint to me) will blow your perfect hag set away. Time will tell.
I picked the 1/4 ounce plat because it is similar in issue price to the hags. >>
To be fair, you'd have to start with the 2007 Platinum. The same year the Spouses started.
As of now, I'd say a set of Spouse Proof First Strike 70's from PCGS will cost you atleast $4000. That's more then double.
How much is a set of 2007 70's Proof Plat's going for ??
<< <i>To be fair, you'd have to start with the 2007 Platinum. The same year the Spouses started.
As of now, I'd say a set of Spouse Proof First Strike 70's from PCGS will cost you atleast $4000. That's more then double.
How much is a set of 2007 70's Proof Plat's going for ?? >>
That is not a fair comparison since I doubt most people collect all the denominations of the platinum Proofs in a 70 grade. 2007 also being one year in an ongoing series as well. But to answer your question using the PCGS price guide, the 2006-W platinum Proofs in a First StrikeSM 70 grade are listed at $11,550 for all four coins (there is no pricing on the 2007-W platinum Proofs). The First two First Spouse coins in a First StrikeSM 70 are listed at $1,150 for Martha Washington $1,500 for Abiagail Adams, assuming $1,200 for the Jefferson's Liberty and $2,000 for the Dolley Madison (there is no pricing for those two and the Dolley Madison is the key so far of the First StrikeSM sets with only 51 in a 70) that would make a total of $5,650 for the first four issues.
Both are inaugural years of new sets.
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
And with an average of 9% 70 ratio for the 2006-W platinum Proofs vs 22% 70 ratio for the First Spouse Proofs, you would also need to grade more than twice as many coins in order to complete a 70 set with the 69's being a losing proposition in terms of resale value.
<< <i>
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
And with an average of 9% 70 ratio for the 2006-W platinum Proofs vs 22% 70 ratio for the First Spouse Proofs, you would also need to grade more than twice as many coins in order to complete a 70 set with the 69's being a losing proposition in terms of resale value. >>
So does that mean that the existing 70 plat sets will escalate in value much faster because there is a lower grade through rate, thus making them more scarce for the existing collector base.
Speaking of collector base, there are probably 6000 plat collectors as a core group. There are probably 16000 core Spouse collectors(non-flippers). Much larger base to absorb the higher grade rate of the Spouses. Shouldn't that drive prices higher than the plats? Which series has a growing collector base and which has a declining collector base?
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
Your original quote was:
" I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price. "
The Spouses needed four coins to be purchased. I guess you could buy four 1/4 oz Platinums. That would be about the same price, plus you said some of yours might be 69's. All the spouses will be 70's. All increases based on percentage increase.
I'd have to place my bet on a full set of First Strike Proof PCGS 70's Spouses, then four 1/4 oz Platinums, graded 69/70, as the best possibility of price appreciation.
<< <i>So does that mean that the existing 70 plat sets will escalate in value much faster because there is a lower grade through rate, thus making them more scarce for the existing collector base.
Speaking of collector base, there are probably 6000 plat collectors as a core group. Are there 6000 core Spouse collectors?. Which series has a growing collector base and which has a declining collector base? >>
If you got the money to put together a complete 70 Proof platinum set by all means go for it since in the 70 grade they will be rare. Given the platinum issues have been out for over 10 years the collector base is much more established. The First Spouse issues are just getting statred though Mint research indicated there would be 5,000 - 10,000 collectors of the entire series. How many of those will want a complete perfect set is to be seen however going by current aftermarket prices for the First StrikeSM 70 Proof issues I would say the demand exceeds the available supply of First StrikeSM Spouse 70 issues.
<< <i>
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
Your original quote was:
" I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price. "
The Spouses needed four coins to be purchased. I guess you could buy four 1/4 oz Platinums. That would be about the same price, plus you said some of yours might be 69's. All the spouses will be 70's. All increases based on percentage increase.
I'd have to place my bet on a full set of First Strike Proof PCGS 70's Spouses, then four 1/4 oz Platinums, graded 69/70, as the best possibility of price appreciation. >>
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>There are quite a few who collect all four plats every year. The mint issue price is the kicker. Plats are about 50% higher in price when issued from the mint or stated another way, the Hags cost about 2/3 of the purchase price of the plat set. About $3000 isssue price for the plats versus about $2000 issue price for the Spouses. So...... 2/3 of $11500 (value of plats) = $7590 which is still almost 35-40% higher than the speculative value FBH put up for his perfect 70 2007 hag set.
Both are inaugural years of new sets. >>
Your original quote was:
" I hope we're both here in ten years and can call up this thread. We can then compare my 69/70 1/4 ounce plat proof set to your 70 Hag set and we will see who's has appreciated more in percentage basis from the mint issue price. "
The Spouses needed four coins to be purchased. I guess you could buy four 1/4 oz Platinums. That would be about the same price, plus you said some of yours might be 69's. All the spouses will be 70's. All increases based on percentage increase.
I'd have to place my bet on a full set of First Strike Proof PCGS 70's Spouses, then four 1/4 oz Platinums, graded 69/70, as the best possibility of price appreciation. >>
>>
I don't know, per my original quote, I'd still bet a complete 20 year run set of 1/4 oz platinums scattered in 69/70 over a 10 year run of 70 Hags (the plats will be half the number of coins, twice the value). The 70 hags with their high grade thru rate won't perform near as well as my 2003/2004/2005 plats. Those three coins alone should carry me to victory. The 70 hags might go for 2x the price of 69 ( with the 69 being melt)
<< <i>I don't know, per my original quote, I'd still bet a complete 20 year run set of 1/4 oz platinums scattered in 69/70 over a 10 year run of 70 Hags (the plats will be half the number of coins, twice the value). The 70 hags with their high grade thru rate won't perform near as well as my 2003/2004/2005 plats. Those three coins alone should carry me to victory. The 70 hags might go for 2x the price of 69 ( with the 69 being melt) >>
Using the PCGS price guide, the only $25 platinum Proof to have a substantial premium above the others in a 69 grade is the 2004. Every other platinum Proof is listed at the same price (meaning melt) within $20 in a 69 with a small premim for the 2003, 2005 and 2006. I am sure the key of the First Spouse Proofs will also command a premium in a 69 compared to the rest of the issues.
<< <i>I have some (unverified) information that the 1 oz plats are not being melted nearly as much as the $10, $25 and $50 coins.
That's interesting. I wouldn't have guessed there would be any discrimination by denomination.
There were far too many 1997 $10 coins though, so they should be the first to go! >>
Not in PCGS MS70. I'd be happy to see one of those.
<< <i>Correct but the key to the first hags will not be Adams and Washington. There will be some great coins in the first hag set but they will be much lower mintage than 20,000 coins. >>
The first two spouse coins may not be the key to the set if the remaining spouses fail to selloutI though IMO, in a PCGS First StrikeSM Proof 70 they will be great coins given the historically record low mintage for any Proof gold issues. Since fewer collectors were able to obtain the first three First Spouse coins from the Mint with the fastest sellout ever recordered, if they are looking to complete a set they will still need those two to complete the set.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know, per my original quote, I'd still bet a complete 20 year run set of 1/4 oz platinums scattered in 69/70 over a 10 year run of 70 Hags (the plats will be half the number of coins, twice the value). The 70 hags with their high grade thru rate won't perform near as well as my 2003/2004/2005 plats. Those three coins alone should carry me to victory. The 70 hags might go for 2x the price of 69 ( with the 69 being melt) >>
Using the PCGS price guide, the only $25 platinum Proof to have a substantial premium above the others in a 69 grade is the 2004. Every other platinum Proof is listed at the same price (meaning melt) within $20 in a 69 with a small premim for the 2003, 2005 and 2006. I am sure the key of the First Spouse Proofs will also command a premium in a 69 compared to the rest of the issues.
give it time baby, give it time
What if all of the hags continue to be available until the full mintage is sold. Think 1999 Susan B Anthony Proof or 2001 Kennedy Halves or any of the unsold State Quarter FDCC. Thats a 40K available mintage for all of them. Will the collector base be that high to absorb them. My money is with the plats.
<< <i>I believe most future collectors will more likely be intrigued by low mintage bullion coins of 21st century and that would be the Platinums unless the cost of buying Platinum coins become prohibitive. >>
The First Spouse coins as a series are the lowest mintage gold series ever offered by the Mint and even at 20,000 the First Spouse Proofs are also among the lowest mintage gold Proof coins in this century or last.
<< <i>give it time baby, give it time
Funny, I say the same thing about the First StrikeSM Proof 70's
Obviously we have the short term speculator that that maybe cannot afford to lay out 2K every time the friggin Mint throws out a new product. These people are hoping for a quick turnover and make a little cash. Not a bad strategy but I think with this set, you have to make at least one 70 to come ahead but if not you can still crack them and return them to the Mint.
Another group is looking to maximize their investment over the short to medium time frame and is concerned whether this set will increase in value or sell for spot which is around a $500 loss. Legitimate concern if you ask me. We could see a correction in platinum and it could get bloody. There are dozens of reasons why I do not believe that would happen but what the hell do I know?
Others see it as a long term investment recognizing that even though the relatively high mintage is not as desirable as a lower one but the platinum reverse is after all the first such platinum coin ever offered but the US. Many within this group are also collectors that need these coins to complete existing platinum collections and have a long term view of the value of these coins.
Frankly, I don’t see a downside to ANY of these views. Do you?
<< <i>I see a lot of debate here on whether this set is a keeper but I also see a lot of different criteria�s as to what a keeper is.
Frankly, I don�t see a downside to ANY of these views. Do you?
Downside is the drop in spot price of Gold and Platinum.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>give it time baby, give it time
Funny, I say the same thing about the First StrikeSM Proof 70's
Hey, I guess we agree
In either the Mint packaging or slabbed, they seem to be money losers.
So far, I've never bought direct from the US Mint, always bought on the secondary market and usually cheaper than the issue price.
This set was one I had seriously considered, but as of now, I'm glad I kept my record at zero.
I just wonder how many have been returned in the last couple of months?
I know one CU member that recently sent his back just under the deadline.
Sure, you could hold it for X amount of time and wait for the spot price to bring you to break even or a profit.
I think you could do much better with either silver or gold over that same time frame. And no, I wouldn't buy those from the US Mint either.
Cheaper on the secondary market. Every modern proof gold coin I own, I bought based on the spot price plus a few bucks.
If you just want to collect a set of proofs, fine. However, the issue price is absurd when they can be found for so much less on the secondary market.
* There's always an exception to the rule and in this case it would be the 20th aniversary Silver Eagles with the reverse proof. I was fortunate to be given one as a gift and I also bought another, unopened and still sealed in the shipping package for $110. *
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff