We don't need no stinkin SLABS !!! AUCTION REVISED TO SHOW CLEANING

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 3:53AM

In the STINKIN SLAB

now RAW

As you can see, slabs only hurt the value of our coins !!

Tyler1924S · January 13, 2008 3:57AM

Seated Liberty Key Dates.......does it again!

AngryTurtle · January 13, 2008 4:03AM

Nicely misleading photos as well. Original sale showed you what you were getting, the second set does not.

TCoins · January 13, 2008 4:03AM

Looks like the same coin to me.

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 4:05AM

Yeah. He is also trying to file a Squaretrade feedback removal and threatening a defamation lawsuit against anybody who leaves a neg. Proof is available.

dbldie55 · January 13, 2008 4:09AM

Many people on this board see no problem buying coins in holders with problems noted and then selling as problem free.

RYK · January 13, 2008 4:10AM

Is there anything we can collectively do to rid the numismatic world of this vermin?

Tyler1924S · January 13, 2008 4:10AM

<< Looks like the same coin to me. >>

It is the same coin. SLKD buys them in ANACS slabs (as santasliltreasures) with problems stated, cracks them out, and relists them with no mention of problems, 5-10 grade points higher, and photography carefully planned to hide problems.

Swampboy · January 13, 2008 4:10AM

<< Many people on this board see no problem buying coins in holders with problems noted and then selling as problem free. >>

RYK · January 13, 2008 4:12AM

<< Many people on this board see no problem buying coins in holders with problems noted and then selling as problem free. >>

For that matter, well-established numismatic firms have also been alleged to do the same.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 13, 2008 4:12AM

Scumbag.

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 4:17AM

plastic? we don't need no stinkin plastic !!!

Stinking SLAB

No SLAB

See a trend? Who says Ebay is not fun?

Coxe · January 13, 2008 4:29AM

Made a killing on that one that already closed. Smart doing gold since it gets over the bidder obfuscation mark right away. Feels good though to actually have some self-respect and personal integrity. Morals for dollars? No thanks.

DUIGUY · January 13, 2008 4:30AM

His 1879 cc is NOT XF !! Very sad.

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 5:01AM

<< His 1879 cc is NOT XF !! Very sad.

>>

is so !!!! He is a power seller !!!

JRocco · January 13, 2008 5:19AM

Great job in exposing this cr@p.

Thanks.

fc · January 13, 2008 5:24AM

i wonder how many people here still cannot tell when a photo
is taken to make the coin problems go away?

as soon as you see that type of photo you are supposed to skip it
but, every darn time, there is a person out there thinking that this
is the deal that will score them a great coin!

personal responsibility. they should return it.

as for the seller, did he learn this from stacks or what? coin dealers
are known for this crap. i see different levels of it in coin stores every
time i visit.

normal operating procedure. screw the collector to make cash.

what has changed?

TwoSides2aCoin · January 13, 2008 5:28AM

It's amusing how it went from ANACS XF45+++ to a raw AU++

Next owner might get it into an MS+ grade before flipping it.

NumisOxide · January 13, 2008 5:37AM

ArizonaJack,

Nice detective work. What a

.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 13, 2008 5:49AM

Who thinks this is the same coin ?

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 5:53AM

<<

Who thinks this is the same coin ? >>

a little rework on the talons, shield, and some feathers, but same coin . This is blown up bigtime on another site and compared better than the blond could on CSI Miami

ilikebuffaloes · January 13, 2008 5:58AM

Here is what he says to get out of it:

Authenticity: All of my coins are guaranteed authentic. I back this up with a money back guarantee.

Grading: Grading is a subjective description as to the state of preservation of a coin. My descriptions and terminology used to describe each coin is my opinion. It is not a warranty or guarantee of any kind. The prospective bidder must draw their own conclusions as to the state of preservation of each coin. I do not guarantee that the coin will meet the standards of any third party grading service. And therefore I do not guarantee that the coin will be certified by any third party grading service.

Cleaning: I do not guarantee that any particular coin has or has not been cleaned. I do not guarantee that any particular coin has or has not been artificially toned. My descriptions are opinion only, they are not a warranty or representation of any kind.

I guess his opinion is better than a TPG graders opinion.

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 6:12AM

STINKIN SLAB

NO STINKIN SLAB

fc · January 13, 2008 6:14AM

same coin. look at the two gouges by the eagle's head on the rev.
right hand side of the eagle's head.

jfoot13 · January 13, 2008 6:23AM

<< i wonder how many people here still cannot tell when a photo
is taken to make the coin problems go away?

as soon as you see that type of photo you are supposed to skip it
but, every darn time, there is a person out there thinking that this
is the deal that will score them a great coin!

personal responsibility. they should return it.

as for the seller, did he learn this from stacks or what? coin dealers
are known for this crap. i see different levels of it in coin stores every
time i visit.

normal operating procedure. screw the collector to make cash.

what has changed? >>

Well I for one am quilty of not knowing when a photo is taken to make problems go away ... is there a thread somewhere on what to look for.... were these photos doctored some way or is it just lighting, angle and exposure ? I imagine spotting these photos is very similiar to conterfeit detections and there are markers of some sort to look for... I'm just an old country boy but my dad used to say if you have to learn through mistakes, learn from other peoples... I'm just trying to do what dad told me

fc · January 13, 2008 6:28AM

jfoot,

the best way to imagine how they do it is to take a coin, pocket change, and put a nice scratch on it or three.. a brillo pad or what not. mark it up real nice.

when looking straight down on it you can easily see those marks/scratches.

now turn the coin at an angle to your eyes and watch how the scratches disappear due to the lighting.

people on ebay take these wierd angle shots with digitial cameras
knowing that the severe angles hide obvious in hand problems.

take the coin pictured in this thread... the camera was at a 15-25 degree
angle to the coin. who in the heck takes pictures like that unless
they are offering multiple angled shots for their ebay auction?

the shot where you can see the problems was taken directly above
the coin without a flood of light. white balance seems ok. no strange
coloring (orangish).

TwoSides2aCoin · January 13, 2008 6:28AM

fc, the real indication for me is the ding in the letter "O" in the word "OF". That's pretty obvious to me. Just goes to show how different the camera can make a coin appear.

fc · January 13, 2008 6:30AM

yes, that is another nice marker i did not see at first. just proves
to the Nth degree that this is the same coin.

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 6:37AM

ANACS SLAB

RAW

Sunnywood · January 13, 2008 6:57AM

I am very thankful for companies like PCGS that protect the collecting community from counterfeits, problem coins, and misrepresented coins. If it were not for the top tier TPG's, I would have been much less likely to return to collecting as an adult, and commit serious funds to the endeavor.

Best,
Sunnywood

Gemineye · January 13, 2008 7:10AM

As a coin collector you feel you are being misled that someone is removing a coin from a slab and selling it raw.It was described as a certain condition and now it is removed and that condition thence has indeed changed and you are upset....
Well consider this..a product comes into San Fransico on the western side of the US it is marked up and put up for sale by various companies.By the time it gets to the eastern side of the US for sale it is marked up five times the original cost.Where is the fair market trade on that item.??
Is this the same....or not ??? Are you upset..???
Know what your buyin'......or else your gonna get ripped....!!!

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 7:16AM

<< As a coin collector you feel you are being misled that someone is removing a coin from a slab and selling it raw.It was described as a certain condition and now it is removed and that condition thence has indeed changed and you are upset....
Well consider this..a product comes into San Fransico on the western side of the US it is marked up and put up for sale by various companies.By the time it gets to the eastern side of the US for sale it is marked up five times the original cost.Where is the fair market trade on that item.??
Is this the same....or not ??? Are you upset..???
Know what your buyin'......or else your gonna get ripped....!!! >>

Good point and the rule.....know what your buying !!!

But this is akin to taking cars ruined in the Katrina flood, insurance totals and disguising the fact that they have problems, then selling it to your daughter, would the " nothing wrong with crack out" gang like that or stick up for it? Cracking to resubmit or simply a differance of opinion on grade is one thing and perfectly acceptable, Cracking out to hide and deceive is another game indeed.

Gemineye · January 13, 2008 7:30AM

<< 
But this is akin to taking cars ruined in the Katrina flood, insurance totals and disguising the fact that they have problems, then selling it to your daughter, would the " nothing wrong with crack out" gang like that or stick up for it? Cracking to resubmit or simply a differance of opinion on grade is one thing and perfectly acceptable, Cracking out to hide and deceive is another game indeed. >>

Wrong....I treat this as the same as the explanation Russ explained to me with First Strike™ coins...."What's the harm"
I opposed the First Strike™ ...but....there is ---....no harm.....
You can crack out all the coins you want and label them as you wish because "there is no harm"

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 7:35AM

Actually, I may be wrong, but didn't NGC have to pay out a ton of cash for the 1st strike thingy?

I stand by my opinion that this is wrong and illegally deceptive with intent to defraud. Disclaimers and small print aside, this seller is stealing while providing you with a wonderful experience.......blah blah blah

DrWho · January 13, 2008 7:41AM

oh my. you don't think the buyer..............

santasliltreasures

is in cahoots with the selling turd, do you? oh santa.

NHSBaseball · January 13, 2008 7:54AM

Santasliltreasures had a very Un-Santalike meltdown on these boards one Saturday night a month or so ago---just in time for Christmas!!!

JoeLewis · January 13, 2008 8:04AM

It's unbelievable to me that some people don't think this is wrong. The responsibility of the buyer to "know what he/she is buying" is no excuse for everyone to just start saying anything they want to try to sell a coin. There are rules in a civilized society.

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 9:34AM

<< Santasliltreasures had a very Un-Santalike meltdown on these boards one Saturday night a month or so ago---just in time for Christmas!!!

>>

That was a fun night...then they all went poof

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 12:05PM

<< 

<< Looks like the same coin to me. >>

It is the same coin. SLKD buys them in ANACS slabs (as santasliltreasures) with problems stated, cracks them out, and relists them with no mention of problems, 5-10 grade points higher, and photography carefully planned to hide problems. >>

Tyler, PM me when you get a chance

EagleEye · January 13, 2008 12:23PM

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 12:37PM

<<

>>

LOL Exactly !!!
See you next weekend in Tucson Rick.....

jdillane · January 13, 2008 12:51PM

I agree. Same coin. Looks like seller lost money though. If only that would happen every time.

ArizonaJack · January 13, 2008 1:19PM

<< I agree. Same coin. Looks like seller lost money though. If only that would happen every time. >>

???? Auction is still live, not ending for 6 days

DoubleEagle59 · January 13, 2008 1:28PM

How can anyone not think this is wrong?

ArizonaJack's analogy about the Katrina cars is spot on!!

Getting back to the coin - it's first graded by a TPG, as a 'cleaned' 'damaged', 'tooled' or whatever... and then the seller is selling it on Ebay without mentioning any of this. This is obviously not good conduct on the seller's behalf.

Broadstruck · January 13, 2008 1:40PM

santasliltreasures is seatedlibertykeydates ebay buying account... this guy is a crook!

MajorDuty · January 13, 2008 3:23PM

<< Wrong....

......You can crack out all the coins you want and label them as you wish because "there is no harm" >>

Who are you to say he is right or wrong? He's no more wrong than you are.

<< "there is no harm" >>

I disagree with that statement....and think it's kind of stupid.

BlindedByEgo · January 13, 2008 4:19PM

<< 

<< 

<< Looks like the same coin to me. >>

It is the same coin. SLKD buys them in ANACS slabs (as santasliltreasures) with problems stated, cracks them out, and relists them with no mention of problems, 5-10 grade points higher, and photography carefully planned to hide problems. >>

Tyler, PM me when you get a chance >>

Have you folks reported this little inconsistancy to Ebay? Would it matter to them?

Bullish · January 13, 2008 4:30PM

What a ass, he should be banned from the bay, like he was here!! There has to be something we can do. He also tryed making senior members on this board, look bad. It was a desprate attempt, to make him look better. It didn't work for me!! He's scum!!!!!!!!!

PerryHall · January 13, 2008 7:29PM

<< Have you folks reported this little inconsistancy to Ebay? Would it matter to them? >>

No to your second question.

PerryHall · January 13, 2008 7:32PM

This is a perfect example of one of the pitfalls of buying raw, high value coins on eBay. Just too many dishonest people out there.

Gemineye · January 13, 2008 11:17PM

<< 

<< Wrong....

......You can crack out all the coins you want and label them as you wish because "there is no harm" >>

Who are you to say he is right or wrong? He's no more wrong than you are.

<< "there is no harm" >>

I disagree with that statement....and think it's kind of stupid. >>

You guys are pissed because the coin was cracked out and sold for more and the defects were not disclosed.
If the coin the coin was cracked out and went to a higher grade ..and the defects were missed ..that would be OK...???
Guys crackout coins from TPG to TPG to get better grades and more money....that's OK....????
I haven't cracked any coins out...but If I did I can say whatever I want because it's MY coin....NOT yours....!!!
If you want to buy it ---you buy it ...if you don't ..then don't.......
edit changed to disclosed not hidden....first..

We don't need no stinkin SLABS !!! AUCTION REVISED TO SHOW CLEANING

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