2006 ASE

luckyman · January 12, 2008 2:19PM

I just wanted to share with you all that I just purchased six ASE 3-coin 20th anniversary boxes, mint sealed, on the Bay.

Price just below $3000. This is a MAJOR expense for me, but weighing the cost of the 10th anniversary plat set,

(I did purchase one) versus these I decided to get the silver eagle sets. From what I've been reading on these threads,

the plat set is probably not going to be that strong an investment due to the large mintage. (is that your assessment

or collective opinion of these sets or am I mis-interpreting what I'm reading?) I see graded 20th anniversary

sets (graded pf70) going as high as $2500 on the Bay. Now my quandary...do I park these six sets in a safe, dry

environment for a few years and see how the market grows for these, or do I get them all graded? Can the coins

always get the 20th anniversary label designation as long as they remain in sealed boxes no matter how long stored?

Please advise....I really appreciate all of your input....Luckyman

HonoluluDude · January 12, 2008 2:29PM

The milk spot issue makes the silver eagle sets a dicey investment, especially if they're still in sealed boxes. That said, I'd get them graded and pray they don't come back to you all spotted.

Julio · January 12, 2008 2:43PM

I would keep them in the boxes.

Unfortunately from my experiece they seem to develop milk spots. All mine are encased/graded.

Have no idea what causes this problem. The slabs, the coins? Just wish someone knew the answer.

Seems like PCGS, if memory serves me correctly, has actually offered a reward for whomever comes up with the answer.

I believe, in the unopened Mint Boxes you can get all the labels. I would double check that. jws

SlangNRox · January 12, 2008 2:45PM

I have no advice to give, but thanks for telling me what a sealed box of 6 is going for since thats exactly what I have.

ozzyfan269 · January 12, 2008 2:50PM

I have divested myself of all my ASEs. I have one at PCGS for spot review and I suspect I will be taking the cash that they will inevitably offer me.

No more ASEs for me!

luckyman · January 12, 2008 2:52PM

I thought I had read that those issues (spotting) were happening after grading and slabbing. I hope they

find the cause and cure it. If these are sent in for grading and they do have spotting are they body bagged?

Does PCGS contact you and give you the option of grading or not? Does PCGS have a way of removing the spots

without compromising the coin's integrity (getting a "CLEANED" designation?) I will be a loser (financially) if these

become un-gradable as you suggest they might. You've got me nervous about this because I really thought I was making

a solid investment, now I'm not so sure. I might just turn around and re-sell these in the sealed boxes. About

right now I'm feeling like a real rookie (I am) in making the decision to purchase these. Oh well, live and learn.

I'd better learn fast though....thanks for your input.....anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?

COINB0Y · January 12, 2008 2:57PM

Send them to NGC and make sure you list the sets Proof, MS, RP, Proof, MS, RP, Proof, MS, RP, to get Sequential Grading.

You will get 70's and this will allow you a sure profit lng term. When everything is returned from NGC, vacuume seal the slabs and save all of the Mint Packing!

Unless the un graded sets were vacuumed packed from last year, holding them now without any prevention steps, will do more harm than good.

Vacuume sealing them now will lock them or freeze them in the state they are in (hidden) which is ok, too.

HonoluluDude · January 12, 2008 2:58PM

If you're worried about the spots, keep 'em in the sealed boxes. At least they'll keep their premium this way. I sold my sets (one set was developing spots), and was lucky enough to sell at the peak of the feeding frenzy.

luckyman · January 12, 2008 3:27PM

OK, so Coinboy, you're saying I have a better chance of pf70 grades through NGC? I'm a little surprised to

get that advice on this forum. I do know that they seem a little more liberal in grading. At first I thought you

were being facetious, but reading further with your advice on vacuum sealing and sequential numbering on

the slabs, I realized you were being sincere. I think I'll sit on these a bit, weigh my options, and go forward

from there. Again, I greatly appreciate all the advice you all have given on this subject. I do have another question

regarding spotting....they must have done a chemical test on these coins to see if the metals blended in with

the silver are not pure or compatible with silver. They must have looked at the proofing process to see if there

is a uneven finishing process that "rubs" the coins and leaves a pattern that looks like spots. They must have

tested the slabs to determine if they have a chemical reaction with the silver or moisture "sweating" onto the coin and

when dried inside the slab, leaves crusty alkiline spots behind. Am I right? They must have done all this and more!

Does anyone here know what all of the tests they've done? It might be interesting to collectively gang up on this

nemesis of evil! Ok....you have the floor.....Luckyman

FloridaBill · January 12, 2008 4:46PM

Is it true that PCGS offers a $50K reward for a scientific proof of the cause of milkspots and an associated remedy?

FloridaBill

mach19 · January 12, 2008 5:51PM

<< Is it true that PCGS offers a $50K reward for a scientific proof of the cause of milkspots and an associated remedy?

FloridaBill >>

$50,000 for a remedy, YES

FloridaBill · January 12, 2008 6:02PM

<< << Is it true that PCGS offers a $50K reward for a scientific proof of the cause of milkspots and an associated remedy? >>

And the answer was YES, for a remedy....

Another question....is the reward for a remedy for already minted (and possibly graded) coins, or is the reward for a remedy that can be applied at the mint to prevent this problem?

Thanks.

FloridaBill

mach19 · January 12, 2008 6:30PM

<< 

<< << Is it true that PCGS offers a $50K reward for a scientific proof of the cause of milkspots and an associated remedy? >>

And the answer was YES, for a remedy....

Another question....is the reward for a remedy for already minted (and possibly graded) coins, or is the reward for a remedy that can be applied at the mint to prevent this problem?

Thanks.

FloridaBill >>

I know it is for coins graded by PCGS, not sure about the Mint?

JapanJohn · January 12, 2008 7:28PM

Please tell me you meant $300 and not $3000.

John

BAJJERFAN · January 12, 2008 8:02PM

<< Please tell me you meant $300 and not $3000.

John >>

He bawt 6 sets for about $3K or about $500 a set; $300 wudda bin about $50 each or half of issue price.

BAJJERFAN · January 12, 2008 8:11PM

<< 

<< << Is it true that PCGS offers a $50K reward for a scientific proof of the cause of milkspots and an associated remedy? >>

And the answer was YES, for a remedy....

Another question....is the reward for a remedy for already minted (and possibly graded) coins, or is the reward for a remedy that can be applied at the mint to prevent this problem?

Thanks.

FloridaBill >>

I assume both tho its likely that any fix will probably be a "from here on" thing. Since most common fixes have been tried and fail for spotted non-proof coins it is not likely that these will ever be fixable.

Its been said that if you dip them in something like [I think EZest ]before spotting shows up, that spotting will not happen, but this would make slabbing them prohibitively expensive for PCGS, since they would have to do the dipping of coins in unopened packges. The key is to fix it at the source.

JapanJohn · January 12, 2008 8:25PM

$500 is kinda steep for these as well isn't it? If not I need to sell the three sets I have left.

John

morgansforever · January 12, 2008 8:30PM

More than likely the Eagles are milked, in the OGP.

I vacuumed sealed mine the day the came from the Mint, so far no milk.

Good luck with your 3k investment

FLBuffaloHunter · January 12, 2008 8:32PM

The raw sets that are sealed go for ore than the opened sets since they offer the apperance the sets have not been cherrypicked. However i'm not so sure. Given the sets came in a Mint box sealed with clear tape, the box can easily be tampered with by heating the tape with a blow dryer and then resealed without leaving a trace. Not a good investment IMO.

tychojoe · January 12, 2008 8:54PM

Luckyman -- At PCGS, the Silver Reverse Proofs are eligible for the 20th anniversary label, no matter what. Double-check with PCGS, but it is my understanding that all the coins submitted in the mint-sealed boxes can also get the 20th Anniversary label; some may still be eligible for First Strike labels, too.

I'm not familiar with NGC, but as you inferred from CoinBoy, NGC may be more likely to grade one a 70. That's not to rule out PCGS: I went with PCGS and out of six sets, got back 70's on two Reverse Proofs.

If it's too late to exercise your return privileges from your ebay seller(s), to me, it's a tough call between Honolulu Dude's good suggestion, and CoinBoy's good suggestion. Just depends on your goals, and on your risk-comfort level.

If you want to keep them, and slab them for yourself or future sales, it's nice to know that any Silver Eagle that spots after being slabbed is protected by PCGS's guarantee. (Is that true for NGC, too? - dunno)

<< Its been said that if you dip them in something like [I think EZest ]before spotting shows up, that spotting will not happen, [...] >>

Just a couple months ago (Nov 2007), Russ said,
"Anybody who collects late 1950's and early 1960's proofs has been dealing with this problem for a long time. When I first started submitting, many of the coins developed milk spots after holdering. To solve the problem I started giving each a quick dip before sending them for grading. None of the dipped coins have since developed spots. None."
(PCGS offers $50,000 reward for ASE spotting solution)

His implied assertion that the quick dip should work for Silver Eagles makes sense to me. I've not tried this, but Russ shared his successful method to "stabilize the surfaces" of silver before he submits it for grading and slabbing: immerse the silver coin in eZest for no more than 5 seconds, and neutralize it with 99% isopropyl alcohol. Jan 2005, referring to the Kennedy proof-spotting problem

<< $500 is kinda steep for these as well isn't it? >>

It is, John, especially since when they're still mint-sealed, you don't know if there are spots unless you open the box. Opened sets have sold for $300-$350 in the last month on ebay, and similarly around here on the BST.

luckyman · January 13, 2008 1:42PM

Again to all who have responded...thank you! I was thinking about this spotting problem. I have an open set that has not

developed any spotting. I'm here (SoCal) in a dry climate (desert) . Florida is the most humid state I've ever been in, so I was

wondering if there could be a link to the humidity causing a fungus or mildew or calcium deposit from the slabs or ogp plastic

modules "sweating" if there was enough humidity to cause a little moisture buildup inside them. I know they call them "airtites",

but are they really? What kind of room temperature or climate control is there at the grading services? By the way, why

can't the grading companies like PCGS or NGC dip these coins in the previously discussed cleaners that seem to be so

effective in preventing spotting without compromising the coin and then encapsulate them in the slabs. That way they can avoid

refunds, and related customer service issues in the future and they know how these coins were "cleaned". It sounds like it is

a pretty simple procedure and would be a great service to provide its members who don't want to mess around with chemicals.

A surcharge of $2.00 a coin would be reasonable I would think.

Don't want to ramble on but I do have one other take I'd like to respond to....$500 per sealed set is about the best price you will

find now. I watched several auctions for at least a month to guage what I should pay at most. There are some sellers out there asking

$600-750 per box now. If you can find them for less, please let me know...or if you will take $300 for each of your three sets

(mint seal still intact) contact me immediately! They do sell at a premium mainly because they can still get the 20th anniversary

designation labels for all three coins in the set, whereas with open sets, only the reverse proof is eligible for that special label.

Well, that's all for now..hope you all have more thoughts on the subject.....thanks for the vine....Luckyman

Sheldon · January 13, 2008 5:00PM

I got a mint sealed box of 10 I'de love to sell for $5000. That does seem to be about the going rate on Ebay for the mint sealed sets.

YaHa · January 13, 2008 8:30PM

<< 

<< Is it true that PCGS offers a $50K reward for a scientific proof of the cause of milkspots and an associated remedy?

FloridaBill >>

$50,000 for a remedy, YES >>

Give me a million and I will give you the answer.

BAJJERFAN · January 13, 2008 9:31PM

<< Again to all who have responded...thank you! I was thinking about this spotting problem. I have an open set that has not

developed any spotting. I'm here (SoCal) in a dry climate (desert) . Florida is the most humid state I've ever been in, so I was

wondering if there could be a link to the humidity causing a fungus or mildew or calcium deposit from the slabs or ogp plastic

modules "sweating" if there was enough humidity to cause a little moisture buildup inside them. I know they call them "airtites",

but are they really? What kind of room temperature or climate control is there at the grading services? By the way, why

can't the grading companies like PCGS or NGC dip these coins in the previously discussed cleaners that seem to be so

effective in preventing spotting without compromising the coin and then encapsulate them in the slabs. That way they can avoid
refunds, and related customer service issues in the future and they know how these coins were "cleaned". It sounds like it is

a pretty simple procedure and would be a great service to provide its members who don't want to mess around with chemicals.

A surcharge of $2.00 a coin would be reasonable I would think.

Don't want to ramble on but I do have one other take I'd like to respond to....$500 per sealed set is about the best price you will

find now. I watched several auctions for at least a month to guage what I should pay at most. There are some sellers out there asking

$600-750 per box now. If you can find them for less, please let me know...or if you will take $300 for each of your three sets

(mint seal still intact) contact me immediately! They do sell at a premium mainly because they can still get the 20th anniversary

designation labels for all three coins in the set, whereas with open sets, only the reverse proof is eligible for that special label.

Well, that's all for now..hope you all have more thoughts on the subject.....thanks for the vine....Luckyman >>

You still don't know if "sealed" sets have been cherry picked by someone clever enough to reseal the box. Also I doubt that PCGS could afford to dip the scads of ASEs that come thru the door for 2 bux a pop. I think more like $10. There are certain ones like a 70 that I would do for sure tho.
Keep in mind that any explanation of the spotting problem must also account for the ones that don't spot. I have lots of these in PCGS tombs that aren't spotted

PerryHall · January 13, 2008 9:46PM

<< Also I doubt that PCGS could afford to dip the scads of ASEs that come thru the door for 2 bux a pop. I think more like $10. >>

Do you think it's cheaper for PCGS to buy them back after they spot?

BAJJERFAN · January 13, 2008 10:00PM

<< 

<< Also I doubt that PCGS could afford to dip the scads of ASEs that come thru the door for 2 bux a pop. I think more like $10. >>

Do you think it's cheaper for PCGS to buy them back after they spot? >>

First off we don't know how many come back to PCGS for spot review and if most of them are 69's they probly aint losin all that much. Why don't you dip, rinse dry, and keep in proper order a roll of 20 ASE's and come back and tell us if $40 will pay for some to do that at break even costs? They would have to have someone competent to do it unless you don't care if your coins get processed by Sally Sweeper the cleaning lady on her lunch hour.

tonyt · January 13, 2008 10:50PM

Greetings, Luckyman.

I had a few single mint-sealed SAE 20th Anniv sets that I'd planned to put away thinking they were a solid "investment". But, all the very real concerns about the spotting problems made me extremely uneasy about keeping them--enough so, that I sold all of my sealed sets along with my other non-bullion SAE holdings while I still could. And believe me, I would have been the last person to think of letting them go! Now, I will only acquire SAEs as a bullion buy until someone comes up with fixing the spotting problem--an MS70 SAE today could be a paperweight tomorrow.

53BKid · January 13, 2008 10:52PM

Welcome Luckyman!

I guess what you do is determined by what your goals are. Yes, you bought these at a really decent price relative to where most unopened have been selling recently. While you can get a 20th anniversary lable on the reverse proof anytime, opened, the others come back without one, and have considerably lower values.

In my opinion, send the coins to PCGS for grading. If you're to keep the coins unopened for a few years, what's the excitement of a brown wrapped box? Certainly the enjoyment factor is worth something, even if you only have a passing interest in coins. As far as NGC, yes you may get more 70s but their grading is suspect in my opinion. I've seen 70s with major defects! There's a smaller universe of collectors--More supply and lower demand equals lower prices. As a result, PCGS's 20th ASEs sell more easily and always obtain higher prices for their grades. Personally, I wouldn't even look at an ultra-modern in a NGC holder.

As for me, I had mine graded, and love looking at them. While I've sold some off to recoup my original investment, I love taking the best of them out to study. I purchased one of the cherry stained boxes from PCGS to house my 20th Anniversary coins. It's wonderful.

Keep us posted with what you decide you'll do.

2006 ASE

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