Baseball HOF Class of 2009, 2010, 2011....

BobaFett72 · January 8, 2008 5:32AM

2009:
Steve Avery, Jay Bell, John Burkett, David Cone, Mike Bordick, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Denny Neagle, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams, Mike Williams

2010:
Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Rod Beck, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Shane Reynolds, Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile

2011:
Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Mike Hampton, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Hideo Nomo, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Troy Percival,
Benito Santiago, Ugueth Urbina, Larry Walker

---------------------------

Wow, what a craptacular selection (Besides Rickey Henderson of course!) Does Roberto Alomar get in? Palmeiro will face the McGwire fate (and rightly so) What about the Crime Dog??

artistlost · January 8, 2008 5:36AM

my picks...not that i get to vote...

2009 - Rickey Henderson (1st time)
2010 - Roberto Alomar (1st maybe 2nd) and Fred McGriff (eventually)
2011 - Larry Walker (eventually) and I'm on the fence about Bagwell
2012 - Craig Biggio (1st time)

Hold overs from this year that will get in

Jim Rice, Burt B, Andre Dawson, Tim Raines and eventually McGwire

mathew

xbaggypants · January 8, 2008 5:47AM

Ho do guys Mike Jackson & Eric Karros even get on the ballot?

onefasttalon · January 8, 2008 5:48AM

Do you think Mark Grace or Barry Larkin even get an honorable mention? ... or just good players without even an outside shot?

shagrotn77 · January 8, 2008 5:51AM

<< Do you think Mark Grace or Barry Larkin even get an honorable mention? ... or just good players without even an outside shot? >>

Larkin will get in. At least I definitely believe he will. Maybe even first ballot along with Alomar. Grace was very good, and by all accounts a great guy, but not HOF numbers for a first baseman.

mandeld · January 8, 2008 5:52AM

I think both Grace and Larkin will get some votes, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them got the 5% to stay on the ballot for another go (more likely Larkin, I think).

kylehess10 · January 8, 2008 5:55AM

How is Mike Hampton going to be on the ballot if he plans on pitching again this season?

Goot · January 8, 2008 6:00AM

<< How is Mike Hampton going to be on the ballot if he plans on pitching again this season? >>

I was thinking the exact same thing about Percival and Bagwell.

DrJ · January 8, 2008 6:19AM

Out of that group the only two guys who I consider legit Hall of Famers are Rickey Henderson and Roberto Alomar.

McGriff should get in as well with 493 HR andf over 1500 RBI, though at no point in his career he was ever considered the best player at his position or baseball for that matter.

J

artistlost · January 8, 2008 6:22AM

I don't understand the "best player in baseball" stance. I look at the hall of fame and see Players that would rate amoung the Best during their days but only a handful would have been the BEST at the time.

mathew

BobaFett72 · January 8, 2008 6:30AM

The vote today, and the surge for Rice, to me shows that the voters are re-evaulating the credentials, and the era in which the players did their time.

dontippet · January 8, 2008 6:32AM

<< Ho do guys Mike Jackson & Eric Karros even get on the ballot? >>

The requirements to get on the ballot are 10 years of baseball service and 5 years must have lapsed since you last played. In order to stay on the ballot year after year, you must be named on a minimum of 5% of the ballots. Obviously, Jackson and Karros will not come close to attaining the 5% threshold.

JackWESQ · January 8, 2008 6:50AM

Is there any doubt that come July 2009, Rickey Henderson will give the most anticipated, most hyped and possibly the greatest speech, Hall of Fame or otherwise, of all-time? I can see it now. "In 1939, the National Baseball Hall of Fame elected its first inductees. But only today, with the induction of Rickey Henderson (speaking in the third person), is the Hall truly complete ..."

/s/ JackWESQ

AlanAllen · January 8, 2008 7:24AM

I'd be shocked if Larkin got more than 20% of the vote. His credentials are very similar to Alan Trammell's, and he's never gotten even 100 votes.

Joe

Allen · January 8, 2008 7:32AM

Nomo is still trying to get back into the bigs, he pitched batting practice at USC in the fall. Some of these guys are still active or trying to get back in the bigs.

rube26105 · January 8, 2008 7:34AM

next year, henderson, rice and bert blylven probably,bert put up better #s this year than ever,and tommy john falls off and has to go senior if ever

JackWESQ · January 8, 2008 7:40AM

I can't wait till January 2010 and see what the writers say about Palmeiro. I would not be surprised if he received less than 5% of the vote. But, of course, lots can happen in two (2) years.

/s/ JackWESQ

stown · January 8, 2008 7:43AM

<< 

<< How is Mike Hampton going to be on the ballot if he plans on pitching again this season? >>

I was thinking the exact same thing about Percival and Bagwell. >>

It goes by last year played, regardless of when they officially announce their retirement.

Don't know about Percival but Bags hasn't played in two years.

A761506 · January 8, 2008 7:48AM

Next year, only Henderson will make it in. Rice is extremely over-rated and should not even be getting this much attention.

One thing is certain, starting with Dawson and everyone below him on the list, none of those guys are ever going to get in unless there is a year where the new candidates are all unworthy, as it was this year.

Why do some people think Craig Biggio should be a Hall Of Famer? Aside from playing a lengthy 20 year career, slapping a bunch of base hits and stealing a few bases... what has he done to prove himself worthy? A career .281 average... only 1 season during the entire career he had more than 200 hits, most other years were average, he just played longer to accumulate the numbers. Highest finish in MVP voting was 4th... choked when they needed him most in the post-season, hitting a combined .234 in 9 post-season games, and 4-18 in his only World Series. I would never vote for Craig Biggio.

Salinas · January 8, 2008 7:48AM

<< Is there any doubt that come July 2009, Rickey Henderson will give the most anticipated, most hyped and possibly the greatest speech, Hall of Fame or otherwise, of all-time? I can see it now. "In 1939, the National Baseball Hall of Fame elected its first inductees. But only today, with the induction of Rickey Henderson (speaking in the third person), is the Hall truly complete ..." >>

That is so true!

Henderson is the only lock. Maybe Raines, Rice, Dawson, and Blyleven during the next three years. Alomar is the most intriguing. Can you imagine his bust being him getting ready to spit!

Jackailius · January 8, 2008 8:36AM

To me its interesting, and I know this will spark a lot of debate, how there is a change in voting and thoughts about when players should get in. I'm not trying to say anything negative about players that have been named, because I do think they are great and many deserve the hall, but to say guys like Alamar and larkin may be first ballot is interesting considering how long some greats had to wait such as:
Hank Greenberg 9yrs
Jimmie Foxx 5 votings
Eddie Mathews 5 years
Carl Hubbell 3 years
Lefty Grove 3 years
Dizzy Dean 10 years
Joe Dimmagio 4 years
Apologies for spelling... I'm at work and had to quick write this up.

gemint · January 8, 2008 8:40AM

If I voted, I'd only vote for Henderson from that list. I would definitely vote for Blyleven and Rice before I voted for anyone else on that list.

WinPitcher · January 8, 2008 8:55AM

Different voters, different times, who was still due to get in etc, all played a part in that i'm sure.

Everything depends on timing.

Steve

Goot · January 8, 2008 9:10AM

<< 

<< 

<< How is Mike Hampton going to be on the ballot if he plans on pitching again this season? >>

I was thinking the exact same thing about Percival and Bagwell. >>

It goes by last year played, regardless of when they officially announce their retirement.

Don't know about Percival but Bags hasn't played in two years. >>

My mistake on Bagwell. For some strange reason, I thought I remembered him playing last year.

As far as Percival goes, he just signed a multi year deal with the Rays. Plus, Nomo just signed a minor league deal with the Royals so he may be back as well.

None of those classes are very good in my opinion as far as overall strength goes. I see Henderson, Alomar and McGriff getting in. Not so sure about 2011 though, no one is that impressive other than possibly Bagwell.

NickM · January 8, 2008 1:39PM

Rice gets in next year, along with Rickey Henderson.

As for Biggio, he was the best NL 2B of the 1990s, a 7-time All-Star, 4 time Gold Glove award winner, Silver Slugger winner at 2 positions, and one of the best run producers in history.

You don't play for 20 years as a regular by just hanging around, and you don't wind up with career totals like 3060 hits (20th all time), 144 runs (13th all time), 4711 total bases (28th all time), 668 doubles (5th all time), close to 300 HR and 1200 RBI, over 1100 walks, over 400 steals (a rather big "few"), 1014 extra base hits (25th all time), 4505 times on base (16th all time), the modern record for HBP, and a top 4 hitters on the similarity scale of Young, Molitor, Joe Morgan, and Ripken without being one of the best.

And he played the first 4 years of his career at catcher - the position that most shortens careers and reduces offensive statistics.

I would rate Biggio as about the 12th best 2B of all time. How small should the Hall of Fame be if the 12th best, after well over a century of play, shouldn't be in?

Nick

TomGshotput · January 8, 2008 2:00PM

Of those players, the only correct answer, in order starting with most deserving:

Henderson
Bagwell
Larkin
Palmerio
Alomar

Darin · January 8, 2008 2:19PM

You don't play for 20 years as a regular by just hanging around, and you don't wind up with career totals like 3060 hits (20th all time), 144 runs (13th all time), 4711 total bases (28th all time), 668 doubles (5th all time), close to 300 HR and 1200 RBI, over 1100 walks, over 400 steals (a rather big "few"), 1014 extra base hits (25th all time), 4505 times on base (16th all time), the modern record for HBP, and a top 4 hitters on the similarity scale of Young, Molitor, Joe Morgan, and Ripken without being one of the best.

Biggio is the ultimate hanger on, he was washed up after about his 2,000 hit. In his last 6 seasons he hit a paltry .261 with an on base pct. barely above .300. I guess playing catcher early in his career did wear him out, he should have retired a long time ago.

Goot · January 8, 2008 2:19PM

<< Of those players, the only correct answer, in order starting with most deserving:

Henderson
Bagwell
Larkin
Palmerio
Alomar >>

No Crime Dog? (Mcgriff)

TomGshotput · January 8, 2008 2:26PM

<< No Crime Dog? (Mcgriff) >>

So similar to Palmerio and Palmerio did it over 400 more games, nearly three full seasons. That's enough. I always prefer to keep the standards higher than lower. Had he chosen to use drugs it probable would have been the difference. Palmerio is worthy of the Hall-of-Fame, McGriff never put his health at risk

But if McGriff is voted in, it would be an acceptable choice. Unlike Rice

Forgot to list Biggio

RoarIn84 · January 8, 2008 7:25PM

how can we have a Hall without Mike Bordick?!?!?! his bronze is already made and waiting.....

cardbender · January 8, 2008 7:50PM

<< Rice gets in next year, along with Rickey Henderson.

As for Biggio, he was the best NL 2B of the 1990s, a 7-time All-Star, 4 time Gold Glove award winner, Silver Slugger winner at 2 positions, and one of the best run producers in history.

You don't play for 20 years as a regular by just hanging around, and you don't wind up with career totals like 3060 hits (20th all time), 144 runs (13th all time), 4711 total bases (28th all time), 668 doubles (5th all time), close to 300 HR and 1200 RBI, over 1100 walks, over 400 steals (a rather big "few"), 1014 extra base hits (25th all time), 4505 times on base (16th all time), the modern record for HBP, and a top 4 hitters on the similarity scale of Young, Molitor, Joe Morgan, and Ripken without being one of the best.

And he played the first 4 years of his career at catcher - the position that most shortens careers and reduces offensive statistics.

I would rate Biggio as about the 12th best 2B of all time. How small should the Hall of Fame be if the 12th best, after well over a century of play, shouldn't be in?

Nick >>

I'm with Nick on Biggio. I think he deserves some serious consideration when he becomes eligible. Although I feel some other 2nd basemen do too like F. White and Whitaker, so what do I know.

Estil · January 8, 2008 10:01PM

<< 

Why do some people think Craig Biggio should be a Hall Of Famer? Aside from playing a lengthy 20 year career, slapping a bunch of base hits and stealing a few bases... what has he done to prove himself worthy? >>

3000 hits. Nuff said.

BobaFett72 · January 8, 2008 10:59PM

interesting responses

I'm glad I was able to provoke a relatively good discussion with this topic...and no one has lost an eye yet! Impressive.

Regarding 3000 hits: magic number? but what if it took someone 25-30 years to get it. What if Julio franco stick around and gets 3000 hits....it shouldnt automatically give him the HOF credentials

should it?

RonBurgundy · January 8, 2008 11:40PM

Only Henderson should get in from that group. This will boost the hopes of Dawson, Blyleven, and Rice.

Ron

TJMAC · January 9, 2008 12:13AM

3000 hits will always be automatic. I see where you are going with the Franco argument, but he has absolutely 0 chance at 3000 hits. Biggio was an outstanding 2nd basemen during his time and lots of players in the Hall of Fame hung around longer than they should. Heck, Mickey Mantle probably should have retired after the 1965 season and he would not have hit 500 homers. Few players achieve greatness throughout their whole career.

stown · January 9, 2008 12:35AM

<< choked when they needed him most in the post-season, hitting a combined .234 in 9 post-season games >>

There are not many players who had success against ATL's best pitchers (Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz) in their prime.

And then the one year we didn't face the best staff in the NL, we played the Padres' two man rotation of Kevin Brown, Hitchc ock, and Hoffman, who were absolutely on FIRE in the post season.

As a side note, thank you for proving my point that you cannot just look at stats to gauge a player's performance.

Leiascards · January 9, 2008 1:37AM

Well you can possibly strike Nomo from that list, from what I have been reading he has a good chance of making the team in KC, he just signed a contract with them last week.

Henderson and Biggio are the 2 best picks on that list.

jmbkb4 · January 9, 2008 1:40AM

Why shouldn't franco be in?

NickM · January 9, 2008 5:33AM

In 4 of Biggio's last 6 seasons (for which he was derided as being washed up), he scored at least 90 runs - 100 runs or more in 2 of them. In 2 of those seasons he was among the top 10 in the NL in doubles. In 2004, he hit .281, with a .337 OBP, .469 slugging percentage, and 297 total bases, playing as an outfielder (split between LF and CF). They then moved him back to 2B, at an age when players are moving the other direction.

Players' careers decline as they age past their mid-30s. Bonds and Clemens are the exceptions that prove the roids.

Nick

Baseball HOF Class of 2009, 2010, 2011....

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