All this talk about McGwire and Bonds... what about the other 80+ players that we know for sure used this stuff and that is just one lab. I would beleive that you could find, with enough digging, that well over 33% of baseball players have or are using some type of PID's. why aren't they hitting 50+ HR's a year, or winning 6 Cy Youngs?
I agree that these guys should not have done this, it is bad for them and bad for the game and they may not ever make the HOF because of it. But please, lets not single out one, two or three guys just because they were GREAT and used PID's.... Looks a lot like a witch hunt.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
It's all a shame. McGwire and Bonds were two exceptional players without cheating. Add the steroids and hormones and you get 70/73 home runs. Should they get in the HOF? No way.
BTW, McGwire's brother was a trainer at the gym I go to back in 98. Dude was HUGE. Biceps like beach balls.
<Also look at the Intentional walks. Barry has 607, Aaron is 2nd with 293. That is a extra 314 at bats that <Aaron had just from Int. walks.
lol.....how many AB did Ruth, Bonds & Aaron have when they each hit #714? The beer drinking, hot dog eating fat man wins every time. How many shutouts did Bonds and Aaron pitch?
whats the % you have to get to STAY on the ballot???i think hell will freeze over before bonds gets in, sportswriters revenge for him being a douche, mcgwire-maybe one of these days,not this time, i think he'll get about the same,ill have to look at the mlb hof, i dont even know whos up this year
It's quite evident at this point that whitesoxmike isn't interested in reality or facts, nor is he what one would call "a student of the game," LOL.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
How Mac and these other self-centered can be defended is ludicrous... Sure he was a gifted athlete, but he chose wealth and fame through deception.
These seemingly clueless individuals are supporting McGwire to hopefully lessen the damage to *our silly investments made in his memorabilia. They don't think for a second that he is deserving of HOF status. These are not true "collectors" nor real fans of the Game but desperate individuals looking to salvage their losses. Bottom line, These crooks cheated and that's that.
*I've lost on McGwire, Bonds and Roidket merchandise too -forget about your profits, they would have been meager anyhow. It's sociopaths, like BIG Mac, that cheapen the hobby for the next batch of fans. Personally, I hope McGwire shrivels away along the rest of those giant MLB egos. Now, let's get this room cleaned up!
<< <i>It's quite evident at this point that whitesoxmike isn't interested in reality or facts, nor is he what one would call "a student of the game," LOL. >>
You dont have to be a "student of the game" to see the record books idiot. Maybe you should go take some HGH so you can go make millions hitting homeruns too. Oh wait...you can't, because you need pure talent to do that as well. And the reality is that Barry is in the record books and he is not going anywhere, that is a fact too Mr. "student of the game". I guess one is not allowed their own opinion these days.
Ladder7, You make it sound like McGwire and Bonds are the only athletes to "cheat" the game. I think we all agree that easliy 33% of athlete's have taken something to help them recover faster, build strength, etc...
Why do you single out two players? McGwire will probably get in the HOF some day, Bonds may never because the sports writers have always hated him anyway, he probably deserved the treatment he got. How about all the other players, some HOF condidates, some not.
Lets not forget, Ruth was great, but he did not have to hit relief pitching. He had pitchers in a four man rotation throwing 8 or 9 innings every start, same for Aaron. I do not mean to take anything away from those guys, they were certainly the greatest of their eras, just that times are different and it makes it hard to compare todays athletes with these guys from the past.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i>Lets not forget, Ruth was great, but he did not have to hit relief pitching. He had pitchers in a four man rotation throwing 8 or 9 innings every start, same for Aaron. I do not mean to take anything away from those guys, they were certainly the greatest of their eras, just that times are different and it makes it hard to compare todays athletes with these guys from the past. >>
That's true about Ruth, but he also played in the dead ball era with huge parks. If he were to play today he would probably hit 1000 hr in his career. Bonds would have hit 500 HR, probably close to 600 without the roids.
As for McGwire, he would have done his chances better for the HOF had he have admitted before Congress rather than dance around the question like a politician. His diversionary tactics only make him look more guilty than anything, kind of like the Roger Clemens show we're seeing now.
Marathon dude, I singled out McGwire (and included a vague dig on Bonds to prevent those from accusing me of racism) because the topic of the thread IS McGwire -See above. Incidentally, My post was more of a slam on those that resemble sneaky little lawyers that defend these creeps -which is a far worse offense. Don't you agree? 'nuff ced, Steve F
Until these guys start ratting on each other they are all guilty to me. They need to understand there is more honor in coming clean than sticking with silence.
You dont have to be a "student of the game" to see the record books idiot.
You have no clue about Bonds or baseball, the only "idiot" here is you, sir.
What are you, like 12 years old?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
[qLets not forget, Ruth was great, but he did not have to hit relief pitching. He had pitchers in a four man rotation throwing 8 or 9 innings every start, same for Aaron. I do not mean to take anything away from those guys, they were certainly the greatest of their eras, just that times are different and it makes it hard to compare todays athletes with these guys from the past. >>
They had releif pitching then, they might not of had people designated for that role, but when a pitcher was out of gas, he came out of the game just the same.
<< <i>You dont have to be a "student of the game" to see the record books idiot.
You have no clue about Bonds or baseball, the only "idiot" here is you, sir.
What are you, like 12 years old? >>
Yep your right...I am 12. LOL I least I don't go around bashing others opinions. I simply said IMO Bonds is the best player to ever play, and you have to throw all this "student of the game" crap at me. Why do I have no clue about baseball because I like Bonds and can appreciate everything he as done??? What makes your word final??? Get a clue loser.
"Lets not forget, Ruth was great, but he did not have to hit relief pitching. He had pitchers in a four man rotation throwing 8 or 9 innings every start, same for Aaron. I do not mean to take anything away from those guys, they were certainly the greatest of their eras, just that times are different and it makes it hard to compare todays athletes with these guys from the past."
Now thats pretty funny. The 3rd and 4th starters on those rotations would SMOKE today's hitters. With expansion teams and 5 man rotations todays hitters face some truly subpar hurlers.
If you truly believe that Bonds would have broken the single season HR record OR the all-time record without injecting himself with performance enhancing drugs, then you are truly clueless. You give new meaning to the old saying "ignorance is bliss".
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I, for one, hope he gets in. If you start labeling these guys as cheaters, you have to either label them all as cheaters of none of them. You can't keep some people from the "Steroid Era" out and let others in. Bonds is a good example...how many of his homeruns would you have to take away, based on the fact that he cheated?? 171, 350, all of them? You have to label the era and still vote the guys in that have the numbers to get in...you can't pick and choose....too many cans of worms if you start doing that.
id take em all just for his attitude,hes going to boycott the hall anyways remember? hell will freeze over before bond ever gets in the hall, a whole generation of sportswriters that he hast taicked off would have to die and be replaced just for him to go senior ballot in the year 2525-zagger and evans-
Comments
I agree that these guys should not have done this, it is bad for them and bad for the game and they may not ever make the HOF because of it. But please, lets not single out one, two or three guys just because they were GREAT and used PID's.... Looks a lot like a witch hunt.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
BTW, McGwire's brother was a trainer at the gym I go to back in 98. Dude was HUGE. Biceps like beach balls.
"Molon Labe"
lol.....how many AB did Ruth, Bonds & Aaron have when they each hit #714? The beer drinking, hot dog eating fat man wins every time. How many shutouts did Bonds and Aaron pitch?
///////////////////////////////////////////////
LMAO
80 years ago on beer and hot dogs, Ruth hit a more loosely wound baseball farther than Bonds could
Without roids, Bonds wouldn't reach Willie Mays at 660.
<< <i>and how are you gonna prove that? >>
Look at a natural career arc VS Barroids.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
I still LIKE AND SUPPORT HIM THOUGH! Nobody's perfect, and I will always admire the man personally. Wish he would come clean, but who am I to judge.
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True .
<< <i>p.s. the greatest hitter of all time is Ted Williams and the greatest slugger of all time is Ruth or Aaron .
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True . >>
Hank may be the HR king, and one of my faves, but he is no where near the top in slugging...
GREATEST SLUGGERS
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
These seemingly clueless individuals are supporting McGwire to hopefully lessen the damage to *our silly investments made in his memorabilia. They don't think for a second that he is deserving of HOF status. These are not true "collectors" nor real fans of the Game but desperate individuals looking to salvage their losses. Bottom line, These crooks cheated and that's that.
*I've lost on McGwire, Bonds and Roidket merchandise too -forget about your profits, they would have been meager anyhow. It's sociopaths, like BIG Mac, that cheapen the hobby for the next batch of fans. Personally, I hope McGwire shrivels away along the rest of those giant MLB egos. Now, let's get this room cleaned up!
<< <i>It's quite evident at this point that whitesoxmike isn't interested in reality or facts, nor is he what one would call "a student of the game," LOL. >>
You dont have to be a "student of the game" to see the record books idiot. Maybe you should go take some HGH so you can go make millions hitting homeruns too. Oh wait...you can't, because you need pure talent to do that as well. And the reality is that Barry is in the record books and he is not going anywhere, that is a fact too Mr. "student of the game". I guess one is not allowed their own opinion these days.
Why do you single out two players? McGwire will probably get in the HOF some day, Bonds may never because the sports writers have always hated him anyway, he probably deserved the treatment he got. How about all the other players, some HOF condidates, some not.
Lets not forget, Ruth was great, but he did not have to hit relief pitching. He had pitchers in a four man rotation throwing 8 or 9 innings every start, same for Aaron. I do not mean to take anything away from those guys, they were certainly the greatest of their eras, just that times are different and it makes it hard to compare todays athletes with these guys from the past.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i>Lets not forget, Ruth was great, but he did not have to hit relief pitching. He had pitchers in a four man rotation throwing 8 or 9 innings every start, same for Aaron. I do not mean to take anything away from those guys, they were certainly the greatest of their eras, just that times are different and it makes it hard to compare todays athletes with these guys from the past. >>
That's true about Ruth, but he also played in the dead ball era with huge parks. If he were to play today he would probably hit 1000 hr in his career. Bonds would have hit 500 HR, probably close to 600 without the roids.
As for McGwire, he would have done his chances better for the HOF had he have admitted before Congress rather than dance around the question like a politician. His diversionary tactics only make him look more guilty than anything, kind of like the Roger Clemens show we're seeing now.
PS, How many worthless R/Cs are you stuck with?
You have no clue about Bonds or baseball, the only "idiot" here is you, sir.
What are you, like 12 years old?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
They had releif pitching then, they might not of had people designated for that role, but when a pitcher was out of gas, he came out of the game just the same.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>You dont have to be a "student of the game" to see the record books idiot.
You have no clue about Bonds or baseball, the only "idiot" here is you, sir.
What are you, like 12 years old? >>
Yep your right...I am 12. LOL I least I don't go around bashing others opinions. I simply said IMO Bonds is the best player to ever play, and you have to throw all this "student of the game" crap at me. Why do I have no clue about baseball because I like Bonds and can appreciate everything he as done??? What makes your word final??? Get a clue loser.
Now thats pretty funny. The 3rd and 4th starters on those rotations would SMOKE today's hitters. With expansion teams and 5 man rotations todays hitters face some truly subpar hurlers.
Yeah, um, okay...
If you truly believe that Bonds would have broken the single season HR record OR the all-time record without injecting himself with performance enhancing drugs, then you are truly clueless. You give new meaning to the old saying "ignorance is bliss".
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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