I read the most recent 15 replies and taken together they give a total explaination of the demise.
I recently sold my 50 + year collection for 75-80% of face. Most of it was acquired at face or less, thank goodness. It was a shame, but also I was damn glad to get rid of it. My gold and silver coin collection will always have their intrinsic value. Paper has not done too well as a commodity!
I'm in my mid-20s and I used to have a small collection of modern USPS stamps. I only once encountered another stamp collector before coming to these boards, and that was in 5th grade when an older gentleman came to our class and spoke about the hobby for a half an hour. He was quite nice and gave any of us who were interested (only a few, but myself included) some hinges, a couple of holders, some old first day covers, and an envelope of old, post-marked world stamps.
I sustained my collection for a couple of years, but it got to the point where I couldn't keep up with what was coming out from the PO, and my interest moved on to other things.
I got interested in finding out what they were all worth when I dug them out of a box earlier last year. I was disappointed to find that they weren't really worth anything. I ended up selling off my old unused sheets to a board member for something like 85% of face. He planned to use them for postage. My only real regret was not even being able to get face value from them; even a "parking lot quarter" is still worth a quarter!
Thus ended my foray into stamp collecting. There just wasn't anything there for me.
You can get face value for your stamps if you use them for postage. Since your customer was going to do that with your stamps, did you consider doing that yourself and getting the full face value?
You can get face value for your stamps if you use them for postage. Since your customer was going to do that with your stamps, did you consider doing that yourself and getting the full face value?
who uses stamps anymore except to send a handful of bills?
so if you use, lets say 7 a month, with a collection of 25,000 stamps, lol, you will be done in a few decades.
<< <i>You can get face value for your stamps if you use them for postage. Since your customer was going to do that with your stamps, did you consider doing that yourself and getting the full face value? >>
who uses stamps anymore except to send a handful of bills? >>
Apparently the forum member that purchased his stamps. No, it wasn't me.
<< <i>so if you use, lets say 7 a month, with a collection of 25,000 stamps, lol, you will be done in a few decades. >>
I ended up with some 1 and 2 cent stamps a while back after stamp prices went up. The USPS was very accommodating about letting me use them to fill up the face of the envelope and even suggested I use a lot of them to ship packages. Just use them for X-mas gifts or eBay sales. Many items I purchase from foreign eBay sellers come with stamps. It's certainly possible to use up your stamps at a higher rate than 7 first class letters a month. Also remember that older stamps tend to have lower denominations. Think about it this way, if you ship modern NCLT in OGP boxes, there's quite a bit of space that can be used for postage. Just paste an entire sheet section on that package, maybe breaking it into two or more parts around the address. End of the year holidays are also a good time to get use a lot of stamps since many people ship packages and card envelopes tend to be big. Of course, if it's not worth your time, nothing wrong with taking a loss but it's your choice, unlike say with many world stamps.
Like many other types of collecting, the days of the brick & mortar dealer are coming to a close, in lieu of online venues and trading circles. Just because a given b&m has ceased supporting a segment of a hobby, that cannot be extrapolated into an overall statement on the state of the hobby.
It most certainly can when there are dozens if not hundreds of such stores doing the same thing. I live in a city of around 120,000 with a metro combined total of roughly 300,000 in the tri-county area. 30 years ago there were 4 successful, well supported full time, stamp-only dealers; 20 years ago there was one, and 12 years ago there was only one dealer of any type that carried stamps...us. Now, there are zero storefront stamp or stamp supply dealers (unless you count the part timer who sells hinges, showgards and a few low end stamps out of his booth at a nearby antique mall). What sells online? Mixed lots that people think are going to contain treasure. Just for grins I checked ebay ended auctions for the vaunted rare zeppelin issues. Few offered, mostly baby zeps, and the "big" Zeps offered were either selling cheap or not meeting reserve. There was a set of 3, on first flight covers...they didn't sell at the $2999 buy it now price (which you could have gotten all day long a few years ago)... high bid was a little over $700. (didn't sell b/c there was a reserve). Mint set of all 3 zeps, XF MNH...sold @ $1850, which is less than what the C-13 65c zep by itself used to sell for, much less the 2 rarest ones. Are these indications of a resurgent market?
Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken.
The world stamp market is little better...if you sell online you can at least expose yourself to the right market but do you think foreign buyers are going to, for instance, jump on the slabbed-stamp bandwagon? Hardly. Many who do deal in such things as smaller 'niche markets' in my experience are either promoting their own book/guide, liquidating their own holdings, or part timers who don't have stores outside of virtual ones and usually do so to feed their own collecting habits and not their families, otherwise they'd starve. Before someone brings up examples like Mystic, Littleton, Harris, et.al., these places all have coin divisions as well that have been pulling the load for years.
I'd love to be proven wrong; I'd love for someone to be able to show me that a mint NH plate block collection from the 30s up is worth megabucks but I know better because I've been in this market since the early 80s. I agree that it's a good time to buy US if there's something you want...I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). I realize it's hard for die hard philatelists to accept but their hobby is a shell of what it once was, and pimping the "graded" stuff won't create opportunity or wealth for anyone except those who want to make a quick less-than-honest buck from it. All the "investor" sheep will come in because a friend of a friend or a slick talking telemarketer talked them into it, there will be a brief upswing as these types get fleeced, then the wheels will come off again. I can see it now...the TV sellers doing their thing..."Get your slabbed 41 cent coil plate strips here, only $199.95 each! Hurry, we're down to less than 10,000 left!"
Loved (and grimmaced at) your perspective Telephoto. But here's a question: is it possible AT ALL that so many modern stamp sheets, say from the 70s, will be used as postage that some might become rarities (even if there is no demand for them)?
And thanks everyone for creating such a great discussion on this post!
BTW, the # of responses to this post tell me that there are still many people with a fondness for stamps, even if their prices and popularity have crashed. I find that VERY interesting!
<< <i>Loved (and grimmaced at) your perspective Telephoto. But here's a question: is it possible AT ALL that so many modern stamp sheets, say from the 70s, will be used as postage that some might become rarities (even if there is no demand for them)?
And thanks everyone for creating such a great discussion on this post!
BTW, the # of responses to this post tell me that there are still many people with a fondness for stamps, even if their prices and popularity have crashed. I find that VERY interesting! >>
There are likely more mint sheets left from the 40's as the later dates. People were going nuts on buying mint sheets of stamps. I was told that postal workers would take part of their pay ( for investment purposes ) back then in mint 3 cent sheets.
My father-in-law gave me his stamp collection which spans from the early 1900's until the 1970's/1980's. He asked me if I could ever appraise it and I really do not know where to start. Never could get myself into stamps. It is a rather large collection. Maybe someday I'll get around to catalouging what he has???? Who knows.
<< <i>Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken. >>
(emphasis added).
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong saying ALL those segments have dropped in value. U.S. revenues have absolutely soared over the last decade. Competition is fiercer than ever.
(not trying to be argumentative, but when you blanketly claim that all those segments have dropped in value I have to call it as I see it.)
<< <i>I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). >>
Again, totally false generalization. Certain pockets and specialties are doing quite well.
Also, anyone collecting face-value stamps from the USPS with any expectation of appreciation is foolhardy. This is hardly new. It's been going on for decades. If they were "collecting" for the sake of investment, they were clearly collecting the wrong things. Now if they were collecting for enjoyment, how do you put a value on that?
Same could be said for people buying mint and proof sets from the late 60s through the mid 80s. Those are worth far less than issue price. Does that mean the death knell for the hobby? Of course not.
Yes, overall stamp collecting is in a decline. However, there ARE segments that are performing vibrantly. That's all I'm saying.
The basic misconception I see is.......that unlike coins, stamps purchased at face value since about 1940 were produced in HUGE quantities, and are therefore unlikely to climb in value anytime soon.
Pre-1940 material was produced however, in relatively SMALL quantities and is a much different story.
I doubt there are many coin collectors who are actually pursuing a complete coin collection of every coin, every mint mark, every year ever minted, and to say they put out too many stamps so I quit, is a bit nonsensical.
Serious stamp collectors choose different segments and then build those segments, much I would suppose like coin collectors do.
Who here is building a complete coin collection from Day 1 to the present of everything produced in every denom, year, mint mark, etc?
Steve Crippe Managing Director - Rare Stamp Department Heritage Auctions
"What happened to stamp collecting?" you ask? Franklin Delano Roosevelt is what happened.
Seventy years ago stamp collecting was of tiny interest to Americans. Then Franklin Roosevelt ran for President, and stamp collecting was his hobby. Suddenly, philately was "in", starting with the cancelled postage on FDR's inaugural invitations. The hobby exploded as FDR's hold over America grew with the Depression and coin collectors turned to stamps after Roosevelt called in everyone's gold. Indeed, FDR personally pushed stamp collecting as an alternative over coins.
FDR wasn't faking his interest. Once during World War II he "shared" his hobby in private with Winston Churchill. From my reading of Churchill's memoirs this appears to be the only half-hour these two soulmates spent together where Churchill was utterly bored (because he ended up being ignored.)
After FDR passed away coin collecting recovered slowly, accelerating with the silver shortage of the sixties and the relaxation of rules restricting Americans' gold ownership in the late 60s (when gold restrikes became "numismatic") and mid 70s. Stamp collecting dried up as the bubble of the previous two generations started dying out or losing interest, with philately's worth as an investment vehicle destroyed by the Post Office's endless printing of a confusing plethora of commemoratives.
The advent of email seals the demise of stamp collecting, for young people won't collect stamps since the hobby reminds them that they never wrote all those letters their parents kept urging them to, but rely on the telephone and email instead. It will continue to dwindle until...actually, I don't know where it will stop.
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
From the posts read, there appears to be a lot of similarities between modern stamps and modern coins. Do stamp collectors put the best condition high mintage stamps into plastic to artifically increase their value?
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
<< <i>From the posts read, there appears to be a lot of similarities between modern stamps and modern coins. Do stamp collectors put the best condition high mintage stamps into plastic to artifically increase their value? >>
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
My gradnma left me 2 big moving boxes (for clothes) full of stamps. After a quick check the most valuable stamp is from when she was a kid at about $10. Still don't know what to do, was thinking of looking for a local stamp club and have them go through it for me.
From the posts read, there appears to be a lot of similarities between modern stamps and modern coins. Do stamp collectors put the best condition high mintage stamps into plastic to artifically increase their value?
yes. and then the same people who grade them say they collect them. and they put advertising into coin magazines claiming at the huge prices they get and market them up the wahoo.
nothing new. slabbing has tried to invade every hobby. imagine they have tried it with comic books! a hobby that has collectors who actually want to open it up and look at it and actually read it! lol. it is not like a baseball card...
<< <i>My gradnma left me 2 big moving boxes (for clothes) full of stamps. After a quick check the most valuable stamp is from when she was a kid at about $10. Still don't know what to do, was thinking of looking for a local stamp club and have them go through it for me. >>
I had the same problem but solved it by leaving most of the stamps in a humid free-standing garage for a couple years and getting them all stuck together and to their envelopes. Of those that survived, I occasionally break them out to use for postage, which, BTW, is becoming increasingly difficult you have to have a pretty decent-sized envelope to accommodate five 8-centers and one 1-center. I have found that using thirty, forty, and fifty year old Christmas stamps is quaint and charming at this time of year.
<< <i>My gradnma left me 2 big moving boxes (for clothes) full of stamps. After a quick check the most valuable stamp is from when she was a kid at about $10. Still don't know what to do, was thinking of looking for a local stamp club and have them go through it for me. >>
I had the same problem but solved it by leaving most of the stamps in a humid free-standing garage for a couple years and getting them all stuck together and to their envelopes. >>
Ha! I solved some of my stamp problems the same way!
The USPS was very accommodating about letting me use them to fill up the face of the envelope and even suggested I use a lot of them to ship packages. Just use them for X-mas gifts or eBay sales.
I did this for a while for Ebay sales. Bought a bunch of stamps at 90% of face, thinking it was a great savings. I forgot about the value of my time, and eventually I couldn't wait until they were gone. Funny thing about those old stamps - they are really small denominations!
<< <i>From the posts read, there appears to be a lot of similarities between modern stamps and modern coins. Do stamp collectors put the best condition high mintage stamps into plastic to artifically increase their value? >>
But as far as modern, "high-mintage" stamps go, PSE doesn't even bother producing Price Guide values for anything after 1934 (except Duck hunting permit stamps). The others are apparently not considered "important stamps," and for the most part PSE isn't wrong.
<< <i>Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken. >>
(emphasis added).
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong saying ALL those segments have dropped in value. U.S. revenues have absolutely soared over the last decade. Competition is fiercer than ever.
(not trying to be argumentative, but when you blanketly claim that all those segments have dropped in value I have to call it as I see it.)
<< <i>I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). >>
Again, totally false generalization. Certain pockets and specialties are doing quite well.
Also, anyone collecting face-value stamps from the USPS with any expectation of appreciation is foolhardy. This is hardly new. It's been going on for decades. If they were "collecting" for the sake of investment, they were clearly collecting the wrong things. Now if they were collecting for enjoyment, how do you put a value on that?
Same could be said for people buying mint and proof sets from the late 60s through the mid 80s. Those are worth far less than issue price. Does that mean the death knell for the hobby? Of course not.
Yes, overall stamp collecting is in a decline. However, there ARE segments that are performing vibrantly. That's all I'm saying. >>
<< <i>Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken. >>
(emphasis added).
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong saying ALL those segments have dropped in value. U.S. revenues have absolutely soared over the last decade. Competition is fiercer than ever.
(not trying to be argumentative, but when you blanketly claim that all those segments have dropped in value I have to call it as I see it.)
<< <i>I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). >>
Again, totally false generalization. Certain pockets and specialties are doing quite well.
Also, anyone collecting face-value stamps from the USPS with any expectation of appreciation is foolhardy. This is hardly new. It's been going on for decades. If they were "collecting" for the sake of investment, they were clearly collecting the wrong things. Now if they were collecting for enjoyment, how do you put a value on that?
Same could be said for people buying mint and proof sets from the late 60s through the mid 80s. Those are worth far less than issue price. Does that mean the death knell for the hobby? Of course not.
Yes, overall stamp collecting is in a decline. However, there ARE segments that are performing vibrantly. That's all I'm saying. >>
I have alot of stamps, not really into them yet. the more I find out about them, the more I like them. I really like encased postage stamps. Rare and affordable in terms of sarcity.
<< <i>I don't follow the hobby closely but some of things I have heard sound very familiar to coins - a major one is the lack of young people involved with the stamp collecting another is a prolonged and ugly struggle for the direction and control of the main stamp collecting organization (shades of the ANA), I think things are better in that area now.
My own theory is that stamps are not used as much in everyday life by many people due to electronic bill paying etc. so that if they are out of sight they are out of mind as a potential hobby interest.
Could debit cards mean that coin collecting will go the way of stamp collecting? >>
Reading the threads so far, you are the closest I can relate too. As a young tike, my dad wanted my brother and I to start collecting things. My brother was introduced to coins, and I learned stamps. Over the decades I built some pretty nice stamp collections, my final specialty was 19th century US stamps. At about 10 years ago, I became very worried about the ability for my wife to sell off my collection, if I was not around. That was one of the main reasons why I switched to coins, particularly PCGS and NGC slab coins. At least with them, the market is pretty liquid and easy to understand for a novice.
As far as the question why stamps declined. I first noticed the slide start around the middle 70's early 80's. Before that stamps were a household collecting fad. Even the dime stores had packets for sale. In part the early rise came from inflation scares. Early during the inflationary cycle, all collectible rose with the tide; But as people got used to it, some of the collectables went out of favor. Stamps were in this catagory. Through the years, my brother always had freinds that would talk coins, but I found my stamps and I were rapidly becoming alone in the world. My fellow collectors were either losing interest or dying off. I also think the USPO did not help. Towards the end of the stamp collecting frensy, the USPO starting minting many more stamps each year than they did in previous history. They marketed them to collectors, and produced qauntities that were outrageous. (they basically overstaturated the collecting demand, with over supply) Any kid that wanted to collect US stamps, had to shell out a lot of money each year, just to keep up with the current releases. There was not much money left over to buy older stuff. The USPO was not the only factor in the stamp collecting decline, but I do feel they provided the nails for the coffin. (A lesson we may want to watch out for from the current US Mint's policies).
The only part of your argument I dissagree with is the theory of electronic mail influencing the stamp collecting hobby. I do not think this has been a huge factor. No more than the credit/debit card has replaced coins in our hobby. However, I will make one concession. I always have a coin or two in my pocket, yet never have a stamp. Perhaps that is the answer. The general public will think of a coin each day, more than they will a stamp. And from that population that feels the coin in their pocket, new collectors are born.
the 400,000 number is simply pulled from that "win a stamp" post right above mine.
maybe 400,000 gets you a once upon a time hinged stamp. it was a play on how most stamps value has fallen and still that price of 800,000+ is still less then what brewster paid ;0)
Are Stamps the new coins, or are Coins the new Stamps?
Coin collecting is getting too expensive .. Stamp collecting has lost its market. Maybe Stamps are the new coins.. I see ads for graded stamps everywhere. Once some rich guy with a huge collection starts bidding them up, they might be the hot market.
I've seen crazier things, like people paying premiums for "first strike" designation on circulation strikes.
“When you don't know what you're talking about, it's hard to know when you're finished.” - Tommy Smothers
Just skimmed through this thread. The previous posters have summed it all up very well. I'm an APS member. When I look through the new members list in American Philatelist, it may as well be the obituary page of the newspaper. Most of the new members are 50 plus years old. A good number of them fall between 60-70 years of age.
The number of collectors will continue to dwindle. It won't be relegated to the dust bin of history, but the hobby's glory days have long passed.
Looking at the few images above makes me realize why I used to love the hobby as a kid. They are really beautiful images--with history to boot! Too bad about its decline. The continuation of this post, though, shows there's SOME remaining interest!
Exactly what Coxe said. They flooded the market with excessive varieties. Our Mint is in the process of doing the same with coins. It happened with sports cards, Beanie Babies, Hot Wheel cars, etc. Coins are next.
I still like to add a few, at times, to my collection. These new additions are certainly from before the 1920's. They are interesting and educational; however, I wouldn't count on making money on them.
<< <i>Exactly what Coxe said. They flooded the market with excessive varieties. Our Mint is in the process of doing the same with coins. It happened with sports cards, Beanie Babies, Hot Wheel cars, etc. Coins are next. >>
The difference with precious metals coins is that there's intrinsic value.
Comments
I recently sold my 50 + year collection for 75-80% of face. Most of it was acquired at face or less, thank goodness. It was a shame, but also I was damn glad to get rid of it. My gold and silver coin collection will always have their intrinsic value. Paper has not done too well as a commodity!
I sustained my collection for a couple of years, but it got to the point where I couldn't keep up with what was coming out from the PO, and my interest moved on to other things.
I got interested in finding out what they were all worth when I dug them out of a box earlier last year. I was disappointed to find that they weren't really worth anything. I ended up selling off my old unused sheets to a board member for something like 85% of face. He planned to use them for postage. My only real regret was not even being able to get face value from them; even a "parking lot quarter" is still worth a quarter!
Thus ended my foray into stamp collecting. There just wasn't anything there for me.
who uses stamps anymore except to send a handful of bills?
so if you use, lets say 7 a month, with a collection of 25,000 stamps,
lol, you will be done in a few decades.
collection or accumulation... you tell me ;-)
www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>
<< <i>You can get face value for your stamps if you use them for postage. Since your customer was going to do that with your stamps, did you consider doing that yourself and getting the full face value? >>
who uses stamps anymore except to send a handful of bills? >>
Apparently the forum member that purchased his stamps. No, it wasn't me.
<< <i>so if you use, lets say 7 a month, with a collection of 25,000 stamps,
lol, you will be done in a few decades. >>
I ended up with some 1 and 2 cent stamps a while back after stamp prices went up. The USPS was very accommodating about letting me use them to fill up the face of the envelope and even suggested I use a lot of them to ship packages. Just use them for X-mas gifts or eBay sales. Many items I purchase from foreign eBay sellers come with stamps. It's certainly possible to use up your stamps at a higher rate than 7 first class letters a month. Also remember that older stamps tend to have lower denominations. Think about it this way, if you ship modern NCLT in OGP boxes, there's quite a bit of space that can be used for postage. Just paste an entire sheet section on that package, maybe breaking it into two or more parts around the address. End of the year holidays are also a good time to get use a lot of stamps since many people ship packages and card envelopes tend to be big. Of course, if it's not worth your time, nothing wrong with taking a loss but it's your choice, unlike say with many world stamps.
Like many other types of collecting, the days of the brick & mortar dealer are coming to a close, in lieu of online venues and trading circles. Just because a given b&m has ceased supporting a segment of a hobby, that cannot be extrapolated into an overall statement on the state of the hobby.
It most certainly can when there are dozens if not hundreds of such stores doing the same thing. I live in a city of around 120,000 with a metro combined total of roughly 300,000 in the tri-county area. 30 years ago there were 4 successful, well supported full time, stamp-only dealers; 20 years ago there was one, and 12 years ago there was only one dealer of any type that carried stamps...us. Now, there are zero storefront stamp or stamp supply dealers (unless you count the part timer who sells hinges, showgards and a few low end stamps out of his booth at a nearby antique mall). What sells online? Mixed lots that people think are going to contain treasure. Just for grins I checked ebay ended auctions for the vaunted rare zeppelin issues. Few offered, mostly baby zeps, and the "big" Zeps offered were either selling cheap or not meeting reserve. There was a set of 3, on first flight covers...they didn't sell at the $2999 buy it now price (which you could have gotten all day long a few years ago)... high bid was a little over $700. (didn't sell b/c there was a reserve). Mint set of all 3 zeps, XF MNH...sold @ $1850, which is less than what the C-13 65c zep by itself used to sell for, much less the 2 rarest ones. Are these indications of a resurgent market?
Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken.
The world stamp market is little better...if you sell online you can at least expose yourself to the right market but do you think foreign buyers are going to, for instance, jump on the slabbed-stamp bandwagon? Hardly. Many who do deal in such things as smaller 'niche markets' in my experience are either promoting their own book/guide, liquidating their own holdings, or part timers who don't have stores outside of virtual ones and usually do so to feed their own collecting habits and not their families, otherwise they'd starve. Before someone brings up examples like Mystic, Littleton, Harris, et.al., these places all have coin divisions as well that have been pulling the load for years.
I'd love to be proven wrong; I'd love for someone to be able to show me that a mint NH plate block collection from the 30s up is worth megabucks but I know better because I've been in this market since the early 80s. I agree that it's a good time to buy US if there's something you want...I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). I realize it's hard for die hard philatelists to accept but their hobby is a shell of what it once was, and pimping the "graded" stuff won't create opportunity or wealth for anyone except those who want to make a quick less-than-honest buck from it. All the "investor" sheep will come in because a friend of a friend or a slick talking telemarketer talked them into it, there will be a brief upswing as these types get fleeced, then the wheels will come off again. I can see it now...the TV sellers doing their thing..."Get your slabbed 41 cent coil plate strips here, only $199.95 each! Hurry, we're down to less than 10,000 left!"
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
And thanks everyone for creating such a great discussion on this post!
BTW, the # of responses to this post tell me that there are still many people with a fondness for stamps, even if their prices and popularity have crashed. I find that VERY interesting!
<< <i>Loved (and grimmaced at) your perspective Telephoto. But here's a question: is it possible AT ALL that so many modern stamp sheets, say from the 70s, will be used as postage that some might become rarities (even if there is no demand for them)?
And thanks everyone for creating such a great discussion on this post!
BTW, the # of responses to this post tell me that there are still many people with a fondness for stamps, even if their prices and popularity have crashed. I find that VERY interesting! >>
There are likely more mint sheets left from the 40's as the later dates. People were going nuts on buying mint sheets of stamps. I was told that postal workers would take part of their pay ( for investment purposes ) back then in mint 3 cent sheets.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken. >>
(emphasis added).
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong saying ALL those segments have dropped in value. U.S. revenues have absolutely soared over the last decade. Competition is fiercer than ever.
(not trying to be argumentative, but when you blanketly claim that all those segments have dropped in value I have to call it as I see it.)
<< <i>I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). >>
Again, totally false generalization. Certain pockets and specialties are doing quite well.
Also, anyone collecting face-value stamps from the USPS with any expectation of appreciation is foolhardy. This is hardly new. It's been going on for decades. If they were "collecting" for the sake of investment, they were clearly collecting the wrong things. Now if they were collecting for enjoyment, how do you put a value on that?
Same could be said for people buying mint and proof sets from the late 60s through the mid 80s. Those are worth far less than issue price. Does that mean the death knell for the hobby? Of course not.
Yes, overall stamp collecting is in a decline. However, there ARE segments that are performing vibrantly. That's all I'm saying.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
That's kinda like saying "The Titanic's going down, but their bar still serves one helluva good martini"...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Pre-1940 material was produced however, in relatively SMALL quantities and is a much different story.
I doubt there are many coin collectors who are actually pursuing a complete coin collection of every coin, every mint mark, every year ever minted, and to say they put out too many stamps so I quit, is a bit nonsensical.
Serious stamp collectors choose different segments and then build those segments, much I would suppose like coin collectors do.
Who here is building a complete coin collection from Day 1 to the present of everything produced in every denom, year, mint mark, etc?
Managing Director - Rare Stamp Department
Heritage Auctions
Seventy years ago stamp collecting was of tiny interest to Americans. Then Franklin Roosevelt ran for President, and stamp collecting was his hobby. Suddenly, philately was "in", starting with the cancelled postage on FDR's inaugural invitations. The hobby exploded as FDR's hold over America grew with the Depression and coin collectors turned to stamps after Roosevelt called in everyone's gold. Indeed, FDR personally pushed stamp collecting as an alternative over coins.
FDR wasn't faking his interest. Once during World War II he "shared" his hobby in private with Winston Churchill. From my reading of Churchill's memoirs this appears to be the only half-hour these two soulmates spent together where Churchill was utterly bored (because he ended up being ignored.)
After FDR passed away coin collecting recovered slowly, accelerating with the silver shortage of the sixties and the relaxation of rules restricting Americans' gold ownership in the late 60s (when gold restrikes became "numismatic") and mid 70s. Stamp collecting dried up as the bubble of the previous two generations started dying out or losing interest, with philately's worth as an investment vehicle destroyed by the Post Office's endless printing of a confusing plethora of commemoratives.
The advent of email seals the demise of stamp collecting, for young people won't collect stamps since the hobby reminds them that they never wrote all those letters their parents kept urging them to, but rely on the telephone and email instead. It will continue to dwindle until...actually, I don't know where it will stop.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
<< <i>From the posts read, there appears to be a lot of similarities between modern stamps and modern coins. Do stamp collectors put the best condition high mintage stamps into plastic to artifically increase their value? >>
A company in Newport Beach who grades stamps click here
Chance favors the prepared mind.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
yes. and then the same people who grade them say they collect them. and they put advertising into coin magazines claiming at the
huge prices they get and market them up the wahoo.
nothing new. slabbing has tried to invade every hobby. imagine they
have tried it with comic books! a hobby that has collectors who actually
want to open it up and look at it and actually read it!
lol. it is not like a baseball card...
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>My gradnma left me 2 big moving boxes (for clothes) full of stamps. After a quick check the most valuable stamp is from when she was a kid at about $10. Still don't know what to do, was thinking of looking for a local stamp club and have them go through it for me. >>
I had the same problem but solved it by leaving most of the stamps in a humid free-standing garage for a couple years and getting them all stuck together and to their envelopes. Of those that survived, I occasionally break them out to use for postage, which, BTW, is becoming increasingly difficult you have to have a pretty decent-sized envelope to accommodate five 8-centers and one 1-center. I have found that using thirty, forty, and fifty year old Christmas stamps is quaint and charming at this time of year.
<< <i>
<< <i>My gradnma left me 2 big moving boxes (for clothes) full of stamps. After a quick check the most valuable stamp is from when she was a kid at about $10. Still don't know what to do, was thinking of looking for a local stamp club and have them go through it for me. >>
I had the same problem but solved it by leaving most of the stamps in a humid free-standing garage for a couple years and getting them all stuck together and to their envelopes. >>
Ha! I solved some of my stamp problems the same way!
I did this for a while for Ebay sales. Bought a bunch of stamps at 90% of face, thinking it was a great savings. I forgot about the value of my time, and eventually I couldn't wait until they were gone. Funny thing about those old stamps - they are really small denominations!
Notice a parallel with cents and nickels?
<< <i>
<< <i>From the posts read, there appears to be a lot of similarities between modern stamps and modern coins. Do stamp collectors put the best condition high mintage stamps into plastic to artifically increase their value? >>
A company in Newport Beach who grades stamps click here >>
But as far as modern, "high-mintage" stamps go, PSE doesn't even bother producing Price Guide values for anything after 1934 (except Duck hunting permit stamps). The others are apparently not considered "important stamps," and for the most part PSE isn't wrong.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken. >>
(emphasis added).
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong saying ALL those segments have dropped in value. U.S. revenues have absolutely soared over the last decade. Competition is fiercer than ever.
(not trying to be argumentative, but when you blanketly claim that all those segments have dropped in value I have to call it as I see it.)
<< <i>I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). >>
Again, totally false generalization. Certain pockets and specialties are doing quite well.
Also, anyone collecting face-value stamps from the USPS with any expectation of appreciation is foolhardy. This is hardly new. It's been going on for decades. If they were "collecting" for the sake of investment, they were clearly collecting the wrong things. Now if they were collecting for enjoyment, how do you put a value on that?
Same could be said for people buying mint and proof sets from the late 60s through the mid 80s. Those are worth far less than issue price. Does that mean the death knell for the hobby? Of course not.
Yes, overall stamp collecting is in a decline. However, there ARE segments that are performing vibrantly. That's all I'm saying. >>
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, from the 8-point list of a few posts ago, all those segments have dropped in value and that's not opinion; it's factual and can be documented by even a casual analysis of values over the past couple of decades. Did you read the post from the 50 year collector who had nothing to show for those 50 years' worth of effort except a 20% loss below face value? He's one of far too many out there who bought this stuff (as a collection, granted,) but with the expectation that at least some of it would do better than when it was purchased...and were sadly mistaken. >>
(emphasis added).
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong saying ALL those segments have dropped in value. U.S. revenues have absolutely soared over the last decade. Competition is fiercer than ever.
(not trying to be argumentative, but when you blanketly claim that all those segments have dropped in value I have to call it as I see it.)
<< <i>I'm sure that bargain hunters will have a field day because right now they're the only ones buying anything (other than the high end rarity buyers). >>
Again, totally false generalization. Certain pockets and specialties are doing quite well.
Also, anyone collecting face-value stamps from the USPS with any expectation of appreciation is foolhardy. This is hardly new. It's been going on for decades. If they were "collecting" for the sake of investment, they were clearly collecting the wrong things. Now if they were collecting for enjoyment, how do you put a value on that?
Same could be said for people buying mint and proof sets from the late 60s through the mid 80s. Those are worth far less than issue price. Does that mean the death knell for the hobby? Of course not.
Yes, overall stamp collecting is in a decline. However, there ARE segments that are performing vibrantly. That's all I'm saying. >>
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Win A Free Inverted Jenny
now only worth around 400,000
;0)
<< <i>In 1985, the Inverted Jenny made it to Hollywood. Richard Pryor purchased the stamp for 1.25 million dollars in Brewster's Millions.
now only worth around 400,000
;0) >>
fc
Go ahead and double that. Latest Jenny Value
Managing Director - Rare Stamp Department
Heritage Auctions
<< <i>In 1985, the Inverted Jenny made it to Hollywood. Richard Pryor purchased the stamp for 1.25 million dollars in Brewster's Millions.
now only worth around 400,000
;0) >>
Heritage just sold one last week for $875,000.00 .
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<< <i>I don't follow the hobby closely but some of things I have heard sound very familiar to coins - a major one is the lack of young people
involved with the stamp collecting another is a prolonged and ugly struggle for the direction and control of the main stamp collecting organization (shades of the ANA), I think things are better in that area now.
My own theory is that stamps are not used as much in everyday life by many people due to electronic bill paying etc. so that
if they are out of sight they are out of mind as a potential hobby interest.
Could debit cards mean that coin collecting will go the way of stamp collecting? >>
Reading the threads so far, you are the closest I can relate too. As a young tike, my dad wanted my brother and I to start collecting things. My brother was introduced to coins, and I learned stamps. Over the decades I built some pretty nice stamp collections, my final specialty was 19th century US stamps. At about 10 years ago, I became very worried about the ability for my wife to sell off my collection, if I was not around. That was one of the main reasons why I switched to coins, particularly PCGS and NGC slab coins. At least with them, the market is pretty liquid and easy to understand for a novice.
As far as the question why stamps declined. I first noticed the slide start around the middle 70's early 80's. Before that stamps were a household collecting fad. Even the dime stores had packets for sale. In part the early rise came from inflation scares. Early during the inflationary cycle, all collectible rose with the tide; But as people got used to it, some of the collectables went out of favor. Stamps were in this catagory. Through the years, my brother always had freinds that would talk coins, but I found my stamps and I were rapidly becoming alone in the world. My fellow collectors were either losing interest or dying off.
I also think the USPO did not help. Towards the end of the stamp collecting frensy, the USPO starting minting many more stamps each year than they did in previous history. They marketed them to collectors, and produced qauntities that were outrageous. (they basically overstaturated the collecting demand, with over supply) Any kid that wanted to collect US stamps, had to shell out a lot of money each year, just to keep up with the current releases. There was not much money left over to buy older stuff. The USPO was not the only factor in the stamp collecting decline, but I do feel they provided the nails for the coffin. (A lesson we may want to watch out for from the current US Mint's policies).
The only part of your argument I dissagree with is the theory of electronic mail influencing the stamp collecting hobby. I do not think this has been a huge factor. No more than the credit/debit card has replaced coins in our hobby. However, I will make one concession. I always have a coin or two in my pocket, yet never have a stamp. Perhaps that is the answer. The general public will think of a coin each day, more than they will a stamp. And from that population that feels the coin in their pocket, new collectors are born.
right above mine.
maybe 400,000 gets you a once upon a time hinged stamp.
it was a play on how most stamps value has fallen and still that
price of 800,000+ is still less then what brewster paid ;0)
<< <i>I say jump on the coollectibles train.
It only costs a few cents...
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Coin collecting is getting too expensive .. Stamp collecting has lost its market. Maybe Stamps are the new coins.. I see ads for graded stamps everywhere. Once some rich guy with a huge collection starts bidding them up, they might be the hot market.
I've seen crazier things, like people paying premiums for "first strike" designation on circulation strikes.
<< <i>Just ran across this US Internal Revenue Ten Barrels of Fermented Malt Liquor stamp which I thought was pretty neat.
The Original Sin Tax ?
Chance favors the prepared mind.
The number of collectors will continue to dwindle. It won't be relegated to the dust bin of history, but the hobby's glory days have long passed.
edited because I can't see!
I'll stick to coins as my main hobby.
Garrow
<< <i>Exactly what Coxe said. They flooded the market with excessive varieties. Our Mint is in the process of doing the same with coins. It happened with sports cards, Beanie Babies, Hot Wheel cars, etc. Coins are next. >>
The difference with precious metals coins is that there's intrinsic value.