What now for PCI?
Newcomp103
Posts: 2,223 ✭
JT Stanton is gone, from what I understand they are still doing the signature series, which is a positive since we have forum members included in that program...but coins in their holders are now looked at 3rd tier....what should/could they do to become respected again? Is PCI as a serious TPG even a possibility? Give me your business plan that would make them a player again!
0
Comments
<< <i>Give me your business plan that would make them a player again! >>
Give us yours. -Preussen
<< <i>what should/could they do to become respected again? >>
Make this the rule, rather then the exception:
Russ, NCNE
JJ
is recognized. PCI must have value. Getting approved as a TPG on ebay may require years and sometimes
that is not available. Take the bull by the horns and find another way to do business.
bob
lower prices for collectors.
give out free grading coupons at shows and demonstrate to
collectors and dealers their new standards which are clearly
described in writing. renting a table at the major shows will
do nicely as well as minor local shows if they wish to go all out
with a grass roots campaign.
create a grade guarantee and back it with cash for all slabs going
forward.
change the slab to something decent.
gosh a million things an honest owner/leader could do.
<< <i>
<< <i>Give me your business plan that would make them a player again! >>
Give us yours. -Preussen >>
I think it is going to take more than just "start grading coins correctly and quit holdering problem coins in problem free holders"....and since there are so many of the problem coins in gold holders, yes...that would be my first change. I think they should get a team proven graders....I don't know enough to say who they would be to be honest...but several that have a proven track record in the hobby. Then I think they need a press release of some sort...maybe in coin publications or at a major show...acknowledge the problems in the past, dont just brush them off...I think that they should also stop accepting every coin that comes in to be graded. If there is a problem, bb the coin! Period! This would be a good start, but it may be too late!
<< <i>Simple, start grading coins correctly and quit holdering problem coins in problem free holders. I would also do away with the gold slabs, and go back to the green and red.
JJ >>
They still have red slabs. I've seen them on eBay with problems noted on the holder.
But, people need to buy the coin and not the slab or label on the slab.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>just turn off the lights >>
Or
Join a "CONSORTIUM" of other grading company CEOs and fix what's broken. It's really quite simple. There is room for competition in this business. We are AMERICAN. Just because one of us drinks kool-aid and one of us drinks powerade and one of us drinks gator-aide... don't mean we ain't on the same team. Does it ?
Don't mind me practicing my thinking and typing skills here..., I like problems. It gives us all a chance to come up with solutions.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
under $100. For $6 grading with a 5 day turnaround, that's pretty good service. Even since the gold label era, circulated
coins are graded about right, as are mint state coins up to about MS63. Their 65s are likely 64, Their 67s likely 65.
Is an NGC 70 worth the same as a PCGS 70? Of course not. Should NGC be banned? Or should sellers simply not claim that NGC 70s are
worth the value of a PCGS 70?
As the Greysheet has stated for 20 years: "understand each service's standards"
PCI coins have active bids on the Bluesheet, and are relegated to once a month supplements, as are SEGS, ANACS and ICG.
Cleaned coins in PCI slabs? Yes, but MOST of them are in red slabs which say "cleaned" How many cleaned or dipped out coins have you
seen in other slabs which make no mention of the cleaning on the label?
Cash back guarantee? Most professional appraisers guarantee only "a professional opinion." So did ANACS when the ANA owned them. NGC guarantees
the grade of copper, bronze, and nickel coins for only 10 years after grading -- but there is no date on the slab. Have you bought any 'expired" NGC
copper lately? How many ticking time bombs are in your collection? Does your favorite grading company offer independent arbitration with an insurance policy
for mistakes? Or does the grading company ITSELF make the SOLE DETERMINATION that they have made a mistake, and make a take-it-or-leave-it settlement offer, if any? Even a guarantee styled only as "we'll work with you" is nice to have on a 1916-D dime, but is this even important for a $100 coin?
PCI's current grading? Here is someting I bought on ebay for $30.
Link
<< <i>PCI has always been marketed toward the low end sector of the coin market. The average value of their slabbed coins is
under $100. For $6 grading with a 5 day turnaround, that's pretty good service. Even since the gold label era, circulated
coins are graded about right, as are mint state coins up to about MS63. Their 65s are likely 64, Their 67s likely 65.
Is an NGC 70 worth the same as a PCGS 70? Of course not. Should NGC be banned? Or should sellers simply not claim that NGC 70s are
worth the value of a PCGS 70?
As the Greysheet has stated for 20 years: "understand each service's standards"
PCI coins have active bids on the Bluesheet, and are relegated to once a month supplements, as are SEGS, ANACS and ICG.
Cleaned coins in PCI slabs? Yes, but MOST of them are in red slabs which say "cleaned" How many cleaned or dipped out coins have you
seen in other slabs which make no mention of the cleaning on the label?
Cash back guarantee? Most professional appraisers guarantee only "a professional opinion." So did ANACS when the ANA owned them. NGC guarantees
the grade of copper, bronze, and nickel coins for only 10 years after grading -- but there is no date on the slab. Have you bought any 'expired" NGC
copper lately? How many ticking time bombs are in your collection? Does your favorite grading company offer independent arbitration with an insurance policy
for mistakes? Or does the grading company ITSELF make the SOLE DETERMINATION that they have made a mistake, and make a take-it-or-leave-it settlement offer, if any? Even a guarantee styled only as "we'll work with you" is nice to have on a 1916-D dime, but is this even important for a $100 coin?
PCI's current grading? Here is someting I bought on ebay for $30.
Link >>
Thanks for the well thought out opinion Frank...I think you are correct in everything you said!
<< <i>
<< <i>what should/could they do to become respected again? >>
Make this the rule, rather then the exception:
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ if I may ask, will you attempt to cross that coin, crack it out or sell as is?
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>I graded and authenticated about 80 coins under their Signature series. They have not paid me my fee ($5 per coin) for any of these submisions. After the owner died last year, his widow is controling PCI, and doing a very bad job of it, in my opinion. >>
I worked for a widow once. Using the company money to bail her grandson out of jail was more important than paying me.
<< <i>I graded and authenticated about 80 coins under their Signature series. They have not paid me my fee ($5 per coin) for any of these submisions. After the owner died last year, his widow is controling PCI, and doing a very bad job of it, in my opinion. >>
In an email that I received from JT, he mentioned that the control of the company had been turned over to the owner's wife, but I was not aware that the reason was that the owner had passed away. I assume that if they are having trouble paying you for your involvement with that program, there is trouble for the entire organization. Thanks for your contribution.
<< <i>
<< <i>I graded and authenticated about 80 coins under their Signature series. They have not paid me my fee ($5 per coin) for any of these submisions. After the owner died last year, his widow is controling PCI, and doing a very bad job of it, in my opinion. >>
In an email that I received from JT, he mentioned that the control of the company had been turned over to the owner's wife, but I was not aware that the reason was that the owner had passed away. I assume that if they are having trouble paying you for your involvement with that program, there is trouble for the entire organization. Thanks for your contribution. >>
Brian Beardsley was the owner who passed away. He hired JT when his health started failing. I talked to JT shortly after the ebay ban of PCI and he was
real confident of having the situation fixed, even with possible legal action against ebay. Then when it was announced that JT was gone, I talked to a lady
at PCI who kept saying "I just don't know what to do, I just don't know what to do" Perhaps it was Beardsley's widow?
<< <i>PCI has always been marketed toward the low end sector of the coin market. The average value of their slabbed coins is
under $100. For $6 grading with a 5 day turnaround, that's pretty good service. Even since the gold label era, circulated
coins are graded about right, as are mint state coins up to about MS63. Their 65s are likely 64, Their 67s likely 65.
Is an NGC 70 worth the same as a PCGS 70? Of course not. Should NGC be banned? Or should sellers simply not claim that NGC 70s are
worth the value of a PCGS 70?
As the Greysheet has stated for 20 years: "understand each service's standards"
PCI coins have active bids on the Bluesheet, and are relegated to once a month supplements, as are SEGS, ANACS and ICG.
Cleaned coins in PCI slabs? Yes, but MOST of them are in red slabs which say "cleaned" How many cleaned or dipped out coins have you
seen in other slabs which make no mention of the cleaning on the label?
Cash back guarantee? Most professional appraisers guarantee only "a professional opinion." So did ANACS when the ANA owned them. NGC guarantees
the grade of copper, bronze, and nickel coins for only 10 years after grading -- but there is no date on the slab. Have you bought any 'expired" NGC
copper lately? How many ticking time bombs are in your collection? Does your favorite grading company offer independent arbitration with an insurance policy
for mistakes? Or does the grading company ITSELF make the SOLE DETERMINATION that they have made a mistake, and make a take-it-or-leave-it settlement offer, if any? Even a guarantee styled only as "we'll work with you" is nice to have on a 1916-D dime, but is this even important for a $100 coin?
PCI's current grading? Here is someting I bought on ebay for $30.
Link >>
I have only dealt with PCI was in the mid nineties. They were the first TPG I ever submitted to. They were pretty strict back then I got only one non problem coin back. I was really looking forward to the grade on my trade dollar (since I didnt think it was cleaned). I guess it had been an older cleaning since it came back red labeled at AU58 for red label cleaned. The coin looked problem free to me and low MS. Since then I have heard they have went downhill. But if they went back to their old standards and enticed some decent high end coins into their plastic then I dont see why that with time they could become to good standings with collectors.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
"As of 26, September 26, 2007
J.T. Staton is no longer working at PCI inc."
Under that is today's date.
Over on the right September's grading special is still listed.
Looks like the writing may already be on the wall.
Jerry
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>They say that they are selling as a going concern but refuse to provide financials. >>
Good luck!
I've never seen a "going concern" sale advertised as an auction liquidation, with the office equipment and tools listed.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I think it would take three or four BIG names in the numismatic world to start to grade and authenticate the coins. I also think the name would need to change. Although I never give up on things, I think that the opportunities to grow in the coin slabbing business are extremely limited and it is not a business that I would want to buy into. Therefore, I don't think those three or four big named numismatists would want to get involved in the slabbing business. >>
Why would they, when stickers are so much cheaper?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
2. find some limited area of the hobby to focus on in the beginning, for starters, something like 20th Century non-Gold coinage.
3. assemble a trusted grading team of perhaps five individuals, not well known "luminaries" but solid and trusted Numismatists who can grade/attribute the "niche" they choose.
4. while the slab is being developed and the team is being assembled, invest capital in already properly graded PCGS/NGC coins which can be encapsulated to make their way into the market in the new holder.
5. pick the start-up date to coincide with a major show, advertise ahead of time with details and then have a prominent location at the show.
6.offer some type of buy-back on a limited basis and for a well-defined, short time period.
7. most important of all, don't try to compete with the big boys, just grade coins properly in a timely fashion and pay attention to what the others are doing wrong(it's easy to figure that out, right).
i'd think if they graded Lincoln Cents, Buffalo and Jefferson Nickels, Mercury and Roosevelt Dimes, Standing Liberty and Washington Quarters, Walkers and Franklins and Kennedy Half-Dollars, Peace Dollars and Ike Dollars they'd really lessen how bad they could screw up and increase the chances of hiring very good graders---------at least to get started.
<< <i>1. take a few months and totally redesign the slab so it isn't confused with anything else, either in style, color or printing. keep the same name, PCI.
2. find some limited area of the hobby to focus on in the beginning, for starters, something like 20th Century non-Gold coinage.
3. assemble a trusted grading team of perhaps five individuals, not well known "luminaries" but solid and trusted Numismatists who can grade/attribute the "niche" they choose.
4. while the slab is being developed and the team is being assembled, invest capital in already properly graded PCGS/NGC coins which can be encapsulated to make their way into the market in the new holder.
5. pick the start-up date to coincide with a major show, advertise ahead of time with details and then have a prominent location at the show.
6.offer some type of buy-back on a limited basis and for a well-defined, short time period.
7. most important of all, don't try to compete with the big boys, just grade coins properly in a timely fashion and pay attention to what the others are doing wrong(it's easy to figure that out, right).
i'd think if they graded Lincoln Cents, Buffalo and Jefferson Nickels, Mercury and Roosevelt Dimes, Standing Liberty and Washington Quarters, Walkers and Franklins and Kennedy Half-Dollars, Peace Dollars and Ike Dollars they'd really lessen how bad they could screw up and increase the chances of hiring very good graders---------at least to get started. >>
A lot of good ideas there, Al. I would add morgans to your list though. They aren't that difficult to grade, there are a lot of them, and they should do ok with those.
They would also have to keep a good turnaround time, and price, going.
Don't try to be the bottom feeder with the fastest time, nor the cheapest price....and have good customer service.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Ron...I agree that they would need to add Morgans to Al's list...but they would need to do a MUCH better job than the examples in many of the gold holders...some that I have seen are laughable! >>
I have looked at over a thousand and not seen any that were really laughable. Some a point or two off.
Remember PCI has 3 levels of Cameo, the highest or Ultra Cameo is rare.
I would compare them to ICG.
Because their fees were so low they must have attracted a lot of coins and some of them had to be good.
Another benefit they had was the red slab for problem coins instead of a body bag. ( see example )
Any Crack Out person would have to tell you they made money on PCI.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>what should/could they do to become respected again? >>
Make this the rule, rather then the exception:
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ if I may ask, will you attempt to cross that coin, crack it out or sell as is? >>
Mr. Russ,
I realize that I have only 300 posts over the last year instead of 30,000 but please give me the dignity of an answer to the above question.
Thanks.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ron...I agree that they would need to add Morgans to Al's list...but they would need to do a MUCH better job than the examples in many of the gold holders...some that I have seen are laughable! >>
I have looked at over a thousand and not seen any that were really laughable. Some a point or two off.
Remember PCI has 3 levels of Cameo, the highest or Ultra Cameo is rare.
I would compare them to ICG.
Because their fees were so low they must have attracted a lot of coins and some of them had to be good.
Another benefit they had was the red slab for problem coins instead of a body bag. ( see example )
Any Crack Out person would have to tell you they made money on PCI.
John....I was specifically talking about Bochiman's statement about adding Morgans to the list that Keets had stated about only grading certain US coin series....I have owned MS65 PCI Morgans that were graded correctly...but I have seen MANY that were off badly. I was not saying all series fall into the laughable category...just to clarify. Thanks for your response!
<< <i>JT Stanton is gone, from what I understand they are still doing the signature series, which is a positive since we have forum members included in that program...but coins in their holders are now looked at 3rd tier....what should/could they do to become respected again? Is PCI as a serious TPG even a possibility? Give me your business plan that would make them a player again! >>
There is but one merciful thing that can be done with PCI (and the companies that have made overgraded crap in their holders the foundation of their business)....
Someone play Taps and then fire a 21 gun salute...and then give the companies a formal burial at sea...(no offense intended towards the recently deceased owner or his family)....
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Link
Yet these ebay sellers, who were trying to do the right thing, found their accounts cancelled and businesses ruined by ebay's failure to even send an email notice of their policy change to coin sellers.
Most of the people here applauded the new ebay policy, because it didn't affect the high end coins THEY sold. THEIR profits. THEIR family. Sort of like the Mercedes-Benz dealer, upon hearing of the town's Hyundai dealership closing "Good riddance. They are junk cars. And 'those people' can't afford what I sell, so I am not affected"
But when ebay began ending some PCGS auctions of $1000 coins because there was no photo of the reverse of the slab...WHAT A CHANGE! why ebay is out of their mind!, the policy is poorly thought-out! poorly-implemented! It doesn't solve anything, it makes things worse!
Merry Christmas, Mr. Scrooge!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>There is an article in the January 7th 2008 issue of Coin World about the PCI auction. It states there is a 25% partner who is estranged from the widow of the former owner who had no idea the auction was to take place. It is not clear if the auction can proceed without his permission. >>
Well, that's quite a thing to find out about your investment.