eBay to Revise Certified Coin Policy
wayneherndon
Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭
eBay has meet with representatives of the dealer community and is in the process of revising the policies instituted a couple of months ago. Here's information that was posted on a dealer-to-dealer message system:
eBay Trust & Safety and J Daniel Rare Coins Certified Coins meeting
11/20/2007 :
Our meeting with eBay Trust & Safety last Tuesday was very successful.
They were grateful for our input and have heard the concerns of the
dealer community.
eBay is pulling back the Certified Coins policy. They’ve had a number
of calls from leading eBay coin dealers and received enough valuable
feedback to identify the pain points and revise the policy. The
original policy relied heavily on the input of the ANA, which is
collector-centric and didn’t fully take into account the impact on the
dealer community.
The intent of the plan is part of eBay’s overall efforts to combat
counterfeiting and fraud. The biggest issue in our category was to cut
out the abuse of ‘junk’ graders.
The revisions to the Certified Coin policy that are in the works are:
— Having individual pictures and serial numbers for lower average
selling price items doesn’t make sense and will no longer be required.
They are in the process of identifying categories to ‘carve out’ of the
new Certified Grading policy. When they do so, we will be able to list
these ‘commoditized’ slabs as we used to.
— According to eBay, they have backed off from enforcing the new policy
— The serial number requirement will be changed so there will be a
confidential way for bidders to verify that coins exist through a
buy-side serial number verification button. However, it will be done
in a way that we will not have to publicly reveal the serial number,
either in item description, item specifics, or images.
— It was recommended that eBay add a Canadian grading service (ICCS)
— For those dealers who wanted to add other companies to the list of
sanctioned grading companies, I don’t sense they will change the list.
Other suggestions we made:
— Clearly announce to the dealer community what the changes in the
policy are, when they’ll be enforced, etc.
— Clearly announce to the buyer community that there is a new policy in
force and its impact on listings
— Make certain that eBay employees can cite the policy chapter and
verse and understand how it is to be implemented
— Reinstating numerical grading terms for raw coins in item titles, as
it is a long-standing industry standard.
I will be following conducting more follow-ups with Trust & Safety.
We’ll continue to work with them on shaping the policy to our mutual
satisfaction. When they are ready to announce the changes, I’ll let
you know.
eBay Trust & Safety and J Daniel Rare Coins Certified Coins meeting
11/20/2007 :
Our meeting with eBay Trust & Safety last Tuesday was very successful.
They were grateful for our input and have heard the concerns of the
dealer community.
eBay is pulling back the Certified Coins policy. They’ve had a number
of calls from leading eBay coin dealers and received enough valuable
feedback to identify the pain points and revise the policy. The
original policy relied heavily on the input of the ANA, which is
collector-centric and didn’t fully take into account the impact on the
dealer community.
The intent of the plan is part of eBay’s overall efforts to combat
counterfeiting and fraud. The biggest issue in our category was to cut
out the abuse of ‘junk’ graders.
The revisions to the Certified Coin policy that are in the works are:
— Having individual pictures and serial numbers for lower average
selling price items doesn’t make sense and will no longer be required.
They are in the process of identifying categories to ‘carve out’ of the
new Certified Grading policy. When they do so, we will be able to list
these ‘commoditized’ slabs as we used to.
— According to eBay, they have backed off from enforcing the new policy
— The serial number requirement will be changed so there will be a
confidential way for bidders to verify that coins exist through a
buy-side serial number verification button. However, it will be done
in a way that we will not have to publicly reveal the serial number,
either in item description, item specifics, or images.
— It was recommended that eBay add a Canadian grading service (ICCS)
— For those dealers who wanted to add other companies to the list of
sanctioned grading companies, I don’t sense they will change the list.
Other suggestions we made:
— Clearly announce to the dealer community what the changes in the
policy are, when they’ll be enforced, etc.
— Clearly announce to the buyer community that there is a new policy in
force and its impact on listings
— Make certain that eBay employees can cite the policy chapter and
verse and understand how it is to be implemented
— Reinstating numerical grading terms for raw coins in item titles, as
it is a long-standing industry standard.
I will be following conducting more follow-ups with Trust & Safety.
We’ll continue to work with them on shaping the policy to our mutual
satisfaction. When they are ready to announce the changes, I’ll let
you know.
0
Comments
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
The name is LEE!
Also, those dealers who have input to eBay T&S: suggest to have them ban pictures of crap slabs (i.e. unauthorized grading company slabs) in the gallery view. This is a huge loophole being exploited by the self slabbers like aboncom.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I think the new rules are pretty darn good. Certainly, an improvement overall from the previous morass.
<< <i>Oh what a tangled web we weave... >>
when our practice is to deceive!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I would like to see an area where you can actually tell them the problem and therefore, show them how a particular auction should at least be investigated.
Keep up the good work, it is appreciated.
Bruce
Bad idea, eBay.
Dave
I would still like to see crap slabbers being limited in their representations.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I have not provided my feedback to eBay other than to advise my rep, when he asked, that even though I sold only the slabs in the acceptable list, the new picture requirements made the effort to sell slabbed coins on eBay unworkable for me and that I would no longer participate.
I agree they need to do something about the crap slabs. However, requiring front and back pictures of the slab don't serve that purpose.
WH
I have provided much feedback to my account rep and to trust and safety and some of the things in this change seem clearly there to address my vocal concerns. But I wasn't invited to this meeting either. Do you know who the dealers were? --Jerry
I buy from dealers online that can provide clear pics of front and back so there's no guessing nor disappointment on my part.
I also am cynical enough to question this "group of dealers" who met with ebay. Did they have just the dealers' interests in mind? Never mind, I think I know the answer.
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
Us reputable dealers have always provided good photos of all that is necessary to buy a coin with confidence. The new rules required more photos and photos of reverse slab rather than closeup of the coin and actually made things more confusing and less clear to the sellers. I told my rep that eBay had pushed all dealers twoard mediocrity. That was a move up for the scumbags and a move down for some of us. --jerry
<< <i>Absolutely no reflection on Wayne, as he's the messenger, but a slabbed TPG coin doesn't always reveal the aesthetics of eye-appeal if no picture (both front and back) is present. >>
The requirement is for images of the front and back of the slab, not the coin. The complaint is that sellers who are providing large images of both the obverse and reverse of the coin itself are seeing their auctions nuked simply because they don't have an image of the reverse of the slab. This, unlike much of the rest of the whining, is a legitimate complaint.
Russ, NCNE
Bob
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
Would you rather see that in an auction, or these:
I use both sets, but under eBay's current policy the small front and back slab image that doesn't really show the coin clearly would be perfectly acceptable all by itself.
Russ, NCNE
I'm impressed that they actually listened!
<< <i>— Having individual pictures and serial numbers for lower average
selling price items doesn’t make sense and will no longer be required. >>
Who gets to decide the price point for "lower average selling price" that are now exempt? Is ebay going to maintain a list of every coin/year/mint that is exempt? Unrealistic is an understatement.
<< <i>They are in the process of identifying categories to ‘carve out’ of the
new Certified Grading policy. When they do so, we will be able to list
these ‘commoditized’ slabs as we used to. >>
They are going to make completely new categories for SSS to be listed? Again...very unrealistic. They could care less if SGS/NTC/NNC are eliminated from the market.
<< <i>According to eBay, they have backed off from enforcing the new policy >>
See the numerous posts on ebay forums about item removals (more BS)
<< <i>The serial number requirement will be changed so there will be a
confidential way for bidders to verify that coins exist through a
buy-side serial number verification button. However, it will be done
in a way that we will not have to publicly reveal the serial number,
either in item description, item specifics, or images. >>
There is no way that the ebay developers are going to drastically change the core code for auctions simply for the coin categories (more unrealistic BS). You dont just wave a magic wand...adding anything to core code takes months and months plus testing. In the unlikely event that this point is true, expect to not see it until summer 2008.
e: having dealt with ebay in the past, talks like this are typically private/priviledged and NOT to be repeated.
Or better yet, ebay could rank the sellers according to the feedback system they have in place and let the buyers decide who has the best service, coins etc. Of course this could backfire for sellers dealing in ICG, NGC or PCI.....they could all end up in the junkbox!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>I don't like the reinstatement of numerical grades for raw coins. It is a free pass to hype overgraded raw coins, and likely will provide another loophole for the crap-slabbers.
Also, those dealers who have input to eBay T&S: suggest to have them ban pictures of crap slabs (i.e. unauthorized grading company slabs) in the gallery view. This is a huge loophole being exploited by the self slabbers like aboncom. >>
I agree with your first point. I'm less concerned about aboncom though.
<< <i>J Daniel Rare Coins here.
I've seen the interpretation of my CCE memo as posted by hisnherz. Hiznherz posted prematurely and out of context: the comments weren't represented as mine and mine alone. They certainly aren't official, as there is an official policy in place. If eBay T&S wishes to amend the existing policy, then they will do so, when they choose to do so.
For the record, I'm a small-to-moderate eBay dealer. I reached out to the coin dealing community through a post on CCE (Certified Coin Exchange) to hear their concerns regarding the Certified Coin policy. As a courtesy to dealers who participated, I posted an update after my meeting. The information posted on CCE were simply my impressions and are completely unofficial.
I attend eBay Lives and eCommerce Forums and have spoken to every Trust & Safety employee who takes the time to listen to my issues. I find them to be highly receptive and grateful for the opportunity to gain valuable feedback from those of us on the other end of computer.
In the keynote addresses this year, eBay executives stated that combating fraud and counterfeiting were a top priority. In my opinion, Alphabet Soup grading services (SSS) are fraudulent and bad for our industry. So does the ANA, of which I have been a Life Member since 1985. As such, I am bound by ANA's rules and my customers enjoy the protection of the ANA Code of Conduct.
eBay is allowed to institute best practices to ensure a 'clean, well-lit marketplace' for all of us, buyers and sellers alike. We agree to adhere to their terms and conditions. If we don't like the policies, we have the choice of no longer selling on eBay. Some dealers have done so in reaction to the Certified Coins policy.
I'm sorry that my comments on CCE were posted outside of that forum: needless to say, in the future, I won't post anything there that isn't official and is taken out of context.
Sincerely,
J Daniel Rare Coins
jd@jdanielrarecoins.com >>
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=2000473889&start=52
Russ, NCNE
Polish up and whizz a coin then slap it in a "grading company" slab and list it as a MS67.(sarcasm) Wow!!! for the novice collector this coin looks like a great investment. This certainly lessens the value of truly certified coins for for honest dealers.
<< <i>Reinstating numerical grading terms for raw coins in item titles, as it is a long-standing industry standard.
Bad idea, eBay.
Dave >>
If a raw coin is listed as MS63, it's pretty easy to prove fraud if you receive something overgraded.
But if it's listed under adjectival terms such as Premium Uncirculated, Select Uncirculated, Choice Uncirculated, Gem Unc, etc, which ARE NOT OFFICIAL ANA GRADES, it's impossible to prove fraudulent
grading. Those terms are used in the multi-full page advertisers in the coin publications precisely for that reason. Banning numerical grading did not allow honest sellers to properly describe raw coins, and gave dishonest sellers a loophole.
Edit:Nevermind... Generally was too afraid (paranoid) to buy shucks off there anyhow based on CU board education.
My Odds&Ends eBay Stuff to fuel my coin habit (No Coins)
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Are these changes already in effect? >>
No.
Russ, NCNE