New Capped Bust half dollar die marriage discovered, pics inside!!!
slumlord98
Posts: 1,180 ✭
circa 1930 in Los Angeles. One of the items I bought in the recently concluded George Kolbe sale was an obscure and, except for the announcement on the back cover, forgettable sale closing Friday Nov.14th, 1930. This certainly disproves Overton's claim from his 1959 sale that he discovered the 1817/4 half! This is the Eliasberg specimen, graded EF, no mention of a cleaning; perhaps it happened after they took it in. Does anyone how this coin came into Eliasberg's possession?
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I surly don't know, maybe QDB or Mark B. they did do the collection and had access to Eliasberg's records.
Here's a picture of the coin in question.
1817 over 4 O-102a
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
The assertation that Overton discovered this particular coin and variety is obviously incorrect. Then again, he never acknowledged the large body of previous bust half dollar research done by John Cobb prior to the publication of the first Overton book in 1967. Cobb's name was mentioned only in the 1970 edition, after Cobb sold his coins (of which Overton bought many) but not his body of work which was quite extensive and voluminous. Cobb had graciously lent Overton his research notes in the early 1960s for co-authorship in a proposed Bust Half book.
After the Overton 1967 book came out, Cobb sold most of his Bust Halves in disgust and eventually got out of the coin business.
Now, if only someone would find the XF/AU 1820/1818 that has been listed before in a very few auction appearances (first described in an 1880s W E Woodward sale, of which I don't recall precisely which one at present). The last one being from John Cobb's sale of May 6, 1965, lot 1399. That would be a real find. Remember, it's not the 1820/19, but an 1820/1818.
<< <i>The coin was purchased by Louis Eliasberg in 1953, from Al Overton for $1,500. This is found in the Eliasberg catalogue lot description.
The assertation that Overton discovered this particular coin and variety is obviously incorrect. Then again, he never acknowledged the large body of previous bust half dollar research done by John Cobb prior to the publication of the first Overton book in 1967. Cobb's name was mentioned only in the 1970 edition, after Cobb sold his coins (of which Overton bought many) but not his body of work which was quite extensive and voluminous. Cobb had graciously lent Overton his research notes in the early 1960s for co-authorship in a proposed Bust Half book.
After the Overton 1967 book came out, Cobb sold most of his Bust Halves in disgust and eventually got out of the coin business.
Now, if only someone would find the XF/AU 1820/1818 that has been listed before in a very few auction appearances (first described in an 1880s W E Woodward sale, of which I don't recall precisely which one at present). The last one being from John Cobb's sale of May 6, 1965, lot 1399. That would be a real find. Remember, it's not the 1820/19, but an 1820/1818. >>
If true, and I have no reason to doubt the assertion, Overton's status drops several notches for the ommission. This is the first I have heard of the 1820/18. Is it considered unique?
In Cobb's May 1965 CSNA sale, he mentions that it was "Not Listed - RARE". The next lot he catalogued was an 1820/19, so he obviously knew what he was looking at. Cobb was one of the first to illustrate a 1795 silver plugged half dollar (Beistle 7-K) in the same sale, lot 1368, even though it is not described as such. He was a dedicated Bust half researcher.
Same thing happened with Bolender in one of his sales regarding the 1795 silver plugged dollar. At least he mentoned the plug, not knowing that it was Mint inserted.
If dealers such as Woodward and Cobb described the overdate 1820/18 as such, and not the 1820/19 variety, it should be a real overdate and a true rarity.
Overton didn't do anything wrong or new by not adding Cobb as a co-author to the new Bust Half book which appeared in 1967. The exact same thing was done by John Haseltine in November 1881, when he printed and released the Haseltine Type Table sale. His friend, J. Colvin Randall had done much work on the descriptions of the varieties for several years previous and didn't even get his name included in the catalogue.
<< <i>The assertation that Overton discovered this particular coin and variety is obviously incorrect. >>
I wonder if Overton was simply unaware of this catalog and announcement? Perhaps word of this catalog announcement was never brought to his attention. It was certainly posted on an obscure and forgettable auction catalog.
<< <i>Cobb had graciously lent Overton his research notes in the early 1960s for co-authorship in a proposed Bust Half book. >>
My understanding from reading Downey was that they were in a race to publish. This is the first I've heard that Cobb shared his research with Overton. I've sent him an email and asked if he was aware of this. He (Downey) knew Cobb and owns Cobb's manuscript. As for Cobb getting no credit for Overton's 1st ed., that's not a bad thing; it was a mess, quickly replaced by the vastly superior 2nd ed. three years later. In Kolbe's sale of Ford's library was an unpublished review of the 1st ed. that absolutely scalded the book and anyone who bought it.
Another point that isn't widely known is that Overton incorporated a lot of Beistle into the 2nd ed. Careful reading of Beistle can sound eerily familiar to those familiar with Overton.
As for the 1820/18, I believe that this was an O.101, where the underdigit can appear to be an 8. O.102 is the die marriage with an obvious 9 under the 0. This may have been one of a number of fanciful descriptions of phantom overdates over the years. For mysterious untraced bust halves, where is E.H.R. Green's 1795 O.132, plated in Beistle? Or where is the 1836 CLE, cataloged in Stack's 1954 Graves sale?
I wonder where this coin (17/4) was from 1930- ~ 1953 when Overton bought it.
October 16, 1882 - sale #50, lot 176
"1820 over-struck date, and I believe over 1818 ; fine"
The previous two lots were listed as being 1820 over 1819.
The first read "the 9 showing very plainly ; good"
The second read "both of the under figures distinct ; good"
Check your overdated 1820 halves - you never know....
1. PCGS AU-50. The E.T. Wallis/Louis Eliasberg Specimen. Attractive peripheral toning. First described by E.T. Wallis, owner of the California Stamp Company, in the October 1930 edition of The Numismatist.
In 1952, Al Overton "rediscovered" the piece in the Pratt Collection, selling it the next year to Louis Eliasberg for $1,500.00.
Sold in the April 1997 Eliasberg Sale (Bowers & Merena, Inc.), lot 1735, to Donald Kagin and Andrew Lustig for $209,000.
Resold circa June 1997 to Dr. Juan XII Suros for a reported $250,000+.
Sold by Superior Galleries in the Juan XII Suros Sale to Jay Parrino & Don Kagin for approximately $184,000.00
from "Coin Facts"
I guess when Overton rediscovered this rarity, the re: may have been dropped of at some point!
The 1820/18, it is very possible that this is an error in attributing this overdate.
What looks like something to someone, may not to another.
I've never heard of the this variety.
Mike
<< <i>In 1952, Al Overton "rediscovered" the piece in the Pratt Collection, selling it the next year to Louis Eliasberg for $1,500.00. >>
Thank you, SGFM! Now we need to find out more about this mysterious Pratt.
Firstmint and Preturb, you guys always seem to have this info at your finger tips. Can you pull a rabbit out of your hat this time?
Don't recall any fixed price lists with that name either.
I drew a blank....can anyone else provide validation?
Edited to add :
The ANA membership listing for 1946 include the folowing -
A R Pratt, Parsons Kansas, Morgan coins
Avery J Pratt, Buffalo New York, U S coins
E S Pratt, Wichita Kansas, general coins
Wilfred T Pratt, New York City, NY, U S coins
The 1954 list only has Avery & E S Pratt , along with a new Pratt in PA.
<< <i>Any other interesting busties in this auction catalog? >>
Only one of note, an 1806 Beistle 3b Ae. Haven't had itme to look it up for a conversion. Grade is 'Practically Unc.' Should we also incorporate PU into the scheme?
There is no further info on where/how the 17/4 was found. Probably walked into the store a la the 1795 O.132 that also showed up in LA 7 years ago. It states that the 17/4 was in the family since 1846. 29 years in light circulation wore it down to an EF?
Thanks for posting it slumlord98
This is found only in the Jack Collins, October 1, 1983 numismatic literature sale catalogue, lot #304, which offered an unpublished photocopy manuscript of Cobb's research - circa 1963. Cobb had 283 varieties described on 442 pages.
"An inventory of the Cobb collection of 2,886 half dollars is bound into the volume on the last page.
The text for this manuscript was meticulously compiled by John Cobb, and was based partly on the thousands of bust halves in Cobb's personal collection, partly on the careful examination of dealers' inventories over a period of years, as well as notes on the coins held by other variety specialists. In the early 1960's when Cobb learned that similar work was to be published by Al Overton, he suggested a collaboration between the two men, offering to combine his findings to produce a more complete and accurate work. Allegedly, an agreement was reached, and Cobb presumably forwarded a photocopy of his manuscript to Overton, where it actually became a portion of the Overton work. However, no credits to Cobb appeared in the published work (until the second edition), and Cobb's disgruntlement was obvious. In disgust and chagrin, he promptly disposed of his massive collection of halves to a prominent southern California dealer, who, in turn, sold the first-line collection (sans duplicates) to Overton!"
When I found out through ANA Treasurer Bill Henderson that she had all of the negatives for the photos in the Second Edition, I had him ask her if we (ANACS) might borrow the negatives to make a set of blowup glossies to aid in attributions. She refused, and basically said that if she gave them to us we would steal them from her.
Bill then told me that when Al died he, as a friend of the family, helped her get Al's collection out of their safety deposit box to avoid it getting tied up in probate, and helped organize it for sale. He told her that there were a few Colorado-related items he would like to buy, and made her a good offer for them. She then sold the items in question to a dealer for about $100 more.
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