Who do you trust, yourself or the dealer

curly · October 23, 2007 2:34AM

OK brothers, here is a question for you. Is the dealer looking out for you or is he only interested in your back pocket?

Personally, I buy coins that are expensive ( for me ). I only want the very best that I can afford. I understand that I have an eye like a carp and the only way to get to the good stuff is by getting hooked up with a dealer that I trust.

What about you brothers. Are you better at understanding the nuances of coin collecting than a dealer?

Bochiman · October 23, 2007 2:46AM

I trust Mark Feld and then myself.
I may respect other dealers but so far Mark has shown me that he has looked out for my better interests.
Once he understood what I was looking for, he not only looked for it, for me, but also nixed other coins that I was interested in, knowing that they wouldn't fit for me (and saving me money and aggravation in the long run). Those were coins in his inventory as well as at auction.

RYK · October 23, 2007 2:57AM

Curly,

I have also grappled with this issue. No matter how much time I spend with coins, I do not have the experience, training, or acumen to understand them as well as the experts, most of whom are dealers. My strategy has evolved over time. At one time, I would buy a coin on the recommendation of an expert and suppress my own opinion. I ended up buying some coins which, while they were not bad coins, they were not for me. More recently, I would buy a coin only if the expert and I agreed that it was what is ought to be. Ultimately, there were times when I liked the coin and the expert did not. As long as I understood the expert's reasoning and was okay with it, that is fine, too.

Dealers are not fiduciaries; they do not have to put their customers' interests ahead of their own. They are not doctors or lawyers (before you start laughing, let me finish) who have an ethical and legal responsibility to do what is in the best interests of their patients and clients. They are salespeople.

Some combination of relying on dealers' opinions and Brother Curly's opinion is probably the answer. Do not underestimate yourself.

bidask · October 23, 2007 3:02AM

MOst coins I trust myself, some coins , like proof gold and other gold coins I trust certain dealers.

fc · October 23, 2007 3:02AM

myself but i think those that rely on a dealer is also a good way to go.
but that is the way i like my hobbies. i want to learn through success and
failure.

or did dealers get born with instant expertise :-P

coinlieutenant · October 23, 2007 3:03AM

Only a fool thinks that he is uniformly wise.

Only a fool would rely on others when the knowledge can be gained on his own.

rec78 · October 23, 2007 3:05AM

Very simple-I buy what i like. I do not care what the dealer's opinion is.

PerryHall · October 23, 2007 3:05AM

<< <i>myself but i think those that rely on a dealer is also a good way to go. >>

........................provided it's the right dealer.

pharmer · October 23, 2007 3:09AM

Learned how to see, rather than just look, by spending years looking at thousands of rolls of unc obw Lincoln wheats, so I trust my eye. But I definitely listen to experts, whether collectors or dealers. Sure have learned a lot here by doing that. Probably would have made many more mistakes in my new emphasis on spectacularly toned high grade type coins without this forum and it's experts.

Newcomp103 · October 23, 2007 3:10AM

Since I don't spend BIG money on my coins...I trust myself....if/when I ever start spending over a certain amount....I will seek others that are considered specialists in the field before I buy.

FLBuffaloHunter · October 23, 2007 3:11AM

It's a good idea to listen to other's opinion, especially an established expert, But IMO you should really buy what you like not what someone else tells you to buy as everyone has their own prejudices.

curly · October 23, 2007 3:11AM

RYK...brother, I don't underestimate myself. As a matter of fact, I think it's my strong point to realize that I don't have the knowledge that a dealer has. I just realize that if i want the good stuff, I need to get hooked up. I don't have the time nor the money to travel the circuit hunting for what I collect. I would rather find a dealer that I can trust to constantly have me in mind when he goes to a show.

I prefer to go with the small one man outfits. It's more personable that way.

Shamika · October 23, 2007 3:15AM

Not that I don't trust dealers, but I trust myself more than anyone else.

FLBuffaloHunter · October 23, 2007 3:15AM

The problem is most dealers are in a compromised position by being compitition with their clients for the 'good stuff'.

doh · October 23, 2007 3:22AM

Well, lots of dealers are jackasses. Lots of collectors are jackasses. I always trust myself. I'm on the younger side (under 30), so feel the prejudice many times when I walk up to a dealer. It's like they have an old man fraternity and I can't be a part of it. I'm young I must not know anything, etc. So when a dealer won't look up from his lunch to say hi to me, or won't get off his cell to quote me a price, or stands directly on top of me while I'm looking at his tray watching me like I'm going to steal something then I never bother with those dealers. I have met many nice dealers who are funny and conversational and have spent a lot of $$$ with them. So in short, I always trust myself first. I let the dealers prove if they are trustworthy or not.

olmanjon · October 23, 2007 3:40AM

Are you a collector or an invester? If a collector-than buy what looks good to you for it's appeal. If an investor--then read-read-read and try out several dealers until you find one that you are comfortable with. Me?? I am a collector and buy what appeals to me on any given day of the week. Drives Smitty nuts!!

roadrunner · October 23, 2007 3:41AM

Myself nor my dealers are infallible. A second opinion has some value. But in the end, it's you that makes the final call, not the dealer. It's very rare to have a dealer looking out for you, especially at the level most of us are at. They in fact want to make something when selling to you and when buying back (assuming they gave you something they ever want back - lol). Though I'm sure it's different in the air that the Pogues breath.

As you come up to speed in knowledge don't make the mistake of letting your local B&M shops know it. You'll get shown far many more nice coins if they know you are not just there to pick 'em clean on their newps. Keep quiet and make a courtesy purchase every once in a while even if nothing is coming in. Never ever let them know you make out on a purchase from them.

roadrunner

roadrunner

Elem21wed · October 23, 2007 4:07AM

I have shop I trust where they have no problem telling me that I could do better when I select a coin. They may not have that coin in stock, but they tell me I'm young. I can spend two hours looking through boxes of morgans and not buy a one, and its ok with them. They know I'm a repeat customer, and what I like. It's not suprising for them to have something stashed away for me when I walk in. I trust their knowledge, but I don't use it as a crutch. They will answer any specific questions I have about coins, but they know I do my own research. With this relationship I've been able to amass a small but, but in my opinion, nice quality collection. I never leave there feeling like I got screwed.

But to answer you question I trust what I like, and if I like a coin and find the price within my means I will buy it. But I can always fall back on their opinions if I'm on the fence.

Christopher

Cameonut · October 23, 2007 4:08AM

When I was a newb with coins, it took me a while to find a dealer that I trusted. One that would sell, buy, and give good advice. I am grateful for all he taught me. He gets first shot at my business.

But eventually, you gain enough knowlege to 'graduate' and be confident enough in your own abilities. I reached that point over a decade ago. So who do I trust these days? - myself, and very few dealers.

MrObvious · October 23, 2007 4:08AM

Who do I trust?

For buying decisions - only myself. I'm an adult and I don't expect even a trusted dealer to look after me.

For evaluating coins - a few dealers whom I've learned have integrity and a good eye for coins (i.e. notably better than mine). Finding out who those dealers are can cost you some time and money though. I usually start with some smaller purchases before I entrust a major transaction to a particular dealer. There are some whom I've not done any business with who I would trust to honestly evaluate a coin based on what I've heard about them and read on these boards (e.g. Mark Feld and Julian Leidman).

I also try to extend my education as a grader/appraiser by making smaller purchases on my own and then having a trusted dealer appraise my purchases (either for a fee or as a favor if I've been doing significant business with him/her).

I have had a number of dealers who've been "one and done." They showed themselves to either lack integrity or to be just a little too much in it only for themselves to suit me. The real proof of how you and your dealer have done comes when you go to sell. One of the reasons everyone should sell something periodically, IMO.

Final answer - trust yourself, there's no substitute for expanding your knowledge and knowing exactly what you want. But, unless you do it full time, you'll also need some advice from a knowledgable dealer who will play straight.

Julian · October 23, 2007 4:34AM

I believe that you should only buy what you like.

It is a pretty simple statement, but there are some subtleties.

Do you like the coin's appearance? If not, only purchase the coin if it is an extreme rarity.

Do you ask others for their opinion? If so, listen to them, but the final decision must be yours.

Many dealers, myself included, can offer independent counsel. These dealers understand that they are not going to sell you all of your coins and get your entire numismatic budget.

If you trust a dealer and value his opinion, but haven't purchased coins from him, offer to compensate him for his counsel.

Numismatics remains a hobby and shouldn't cause you aggravation.

Enjoy your collections!!

seateddime · October 23, 2007 5:04AM

I trust Brian Greer and Dick Osburn as dealers than myself.

Mowgli · October 23, 2007 5:22AM

<< <i>RYK...brother, I don't underestimate myself. As a matter of fact, I think it's my strong point to realize that I don't have the knowledge that a dealer has. I just realize that if i want the good stuff, I need to get hooked up. I don't have the time nor the money to travel the circuit hunting for what I collect. I would rather find a dealer that I can trust to constantly have me in mind when he goes to a show.

I prefer to go with the small one man outfits. It's more personable that way. >>

Curly,

I do the exact same thing with a dealer who helps me with my Barbers. He has my want list and services it well. When he finds a coin for my sets he writes my initials on it and sets it aside even though he has other buyers at shows who see the coin in his inventory and try to buy it. He has taken an interest in helping me to build AU sets of dimes, quarters and halves. I could not possibly go to all the shows he attends. His coins are accurately graded and they meet my standards for eye appeal - although sometimes I get educated on how a particular coin is struck or its mint luster. This is a wonderful process for me. I did originally buy enough coins from him at several coin shows that he knew what I liked and took an interest in helping me. In less than a year I have all but three of the dimes and over 75% of the other two sets. There is no way I could have done that without the help of this dealer. Furthermore, he finds coins nicer than I find on my own.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · October 23, 2007 5:23AM

90% of the time I let my own eyes do the work.

jamakin · October 23, 2007 6:01AM

Can you use the words trust and dealer in the same sentence?!?

PerryHall · October 23, 2007 6:03AM

<< <i>Can you use the words trust and dealer in the same sentence?!?

>>

It was a hypothetical question.

Who do you trust, yourself or the dealer

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