Help with a McGwire rc, legit PSA flip? Fake card or variation? CONFIRMED: FAKE CARD & FLIP

digicat · October 11, 2007 1:47PM

I just got this card today. It looks kinda, I dunno. Odd.

If you're famaliar with 80s Donruss factory set cards, you know what those sealed factory bricks do to cards, well, it looks like this. Slightly rounded corners. The edges seem to be sorta pushed down, as if cut with a very dull blade.

The card doesn't appear to be a counterfeit, as the image is crisp under 10x magnification, though faded. The slab doesn't appear to be tampered with, though it's difficult to tell with the older slabs that don't have the handy tamper-evident clear spots. The frosting seems to be from the slab being banged a little.

However..

The flip looks odd. The font doesn't look right. The "0"s are more narrow, and the type is somewhat pixilated and rough, very unlike the typical smooth font. Plus, the "8" looks rather unusual. Is this just an older flip, or is there something wrong here?

mosaic · October 11, 2007 2:39PM

How does the hologram on the back of the flip look?

I know they stopped putting the hologram on the back a few years after they changed fonts, so, if the hologram isn't there or looks odd, it might be a counterfeit.

digicat · October 11, 2007 3:49PM

This style of flip has the hologram on the back of the slab, not the flip. The hologram is the one with "PSA" written on a baseball.

digicat · October 11, 2007 4:14PM

Hmm, another oddity... The picture is cropped differently than another PSA 9 McGwire I once had...

Notice that the lettering on the bottom of the card is slightly different.. the "E" in "Base" is positioned differently in both cards when compared to the bottom leg of the "A" on his jersey.

Anyways, the card doesn't have the usual tell-tale signs of counterfeiting, as the black borders and black lines around the card are solid.

divecchia · October 11, 2007 5:27PM

Look at the front of the plastic holder and on the lower right corner you should see "PSA" stamped on the plastic case just like in the first picture below. Also the back of the flip should have a PSA hologram like on the second picture below. This way you know it's an authentic PSA holder.

Hope this helps...Donato

meuandthelot · October 11, 2007 10:30PM

Besides the obvious night/day card registration(diff. scanner resolution settings?)
There are many slight differences..
Mac is actually closer, or cropped more in the current card.
See red on sleeve lower right, and grass under left side(his right arm

Marlboro/billboard displays different.

That said, I'm not sure if there's a variation or not.

digicat · October 12, 2007 1:06AM

The slab seems to belong to PSA.

psafan · October 12, 2007 3:29AM

It might be the $3 bill variation

clayshooter22 · October 12, 2007 3:30AM

The card is not a variation and it is not cropped different.

If you look closely you will notice that the black box that encompases the picture is off and higher. This gives the apperance of cropping the card different but it is truely only a printing misalignment. The color plates printed correctly and the black plate printed off center high. Look the the lower left corner of the picture, see how the piture extends below the black border? Obviously a printing plate was misalighned.

Your scan might even show a bit of white between the blue sky background and the black border on the top left corner. Look between the "Topps" logo and the black border....any white? I think you'll find some to prove the point of the black printing plate missing a bit high.

That's what it looks like to me.

Mike

digicat · October 12, 2007 3:43AM

Check this out... I added a yellow line, shooting up from the "E" in the position through the "A" on his jersey.

Card in question

Another PSA 9

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · October 12, 2007 3:43AM

I think differently.

Look at his left sleeve on the PSA-Very bottom corner. No red in corner. On raw, the red triangle is visible.

Marlboro- PSA the B is the last letter seen and not fully exposed. On raw the full B is exposed and part of the o

Right sleeve- PSA copy has sleeve going to edge and on raw you an see the edge with grass underneath.

Also unsure why but behind the person in backgroung there is a white triangle visible but not on the PSA copy.

digicat · October 12, 2007 3:50AM

Also, the words on the back are lined up just a tiny bit differently in the bio section.

Anyways, considering that the black on the card (the border lines, name, and "topps" logo) are solid (not composed of print dots like known counterfeits), it seems like a slight variation or an advanced fake.

Still, the font on the flip throws me.

digicat · October 12, 2007 3:51AM

The seller says he's so shure it's legit, that he won't offer a refund. Fun.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · October 12, 2007 3:52AM

I know the McGwire was heavily counterfitted but Im surfing now looking for pics.

According to the Justice Department, Benner provided Ferruccio with genuine original rookie cards to use as "templates" for the counterfeits, and additionally purchased the card stock necessary to produce the cards — 2,000 uncut sheets consisting of 36 counterfeit cards, including the Topps rookie cards of Mark McGwire (1985), Tony Gwynn (1983), Dan Marino and John Elway (both 1984).

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · October 12, 2007 4:01AM

"trinketsnstuff" is now back, still selling the same Counterfeit HTF Beanies, but ALSO sprinkles his listings with his COUNTERFEIT SPORTCARDS, as before (above.) Must have backed-up inventory from the 30 day SUSPENSION...Heavily flogging the "MARK MAGWIRE" Counterfeit market, They are not worth the cheap paper they are printed on.

DO NOT BID ANY of "ilovebeanie4u" COUNTERFEIT "HTF" BEANIE AUCTIONS or Sportcard Auctions at eBay. In fact, I caution you to stay away from ALL his auctions. This seller is a LONG TIME member of the notorious SO CA COUNTERFEIT GANG.

Man I found out alot about forged Beanie Babies. I had no clue those were forged ??!! lol

SoonerCowboy · October 12, 2007 10:12AM

Yep, somethings up with the sellers card. Mine matches digicats:

vintagetoppsguy · October 12, 2007 10:19AM

<< <i>Yep, somethings up with the sellers card. Mine matches digicats: >>

Mine too. I have 3 - 2 graded and 1 raw and they are all the same.

But who knows? Maybe it is some kind of rare variation.

digicat · October 12, 2007 10:52AM

Hmm, I found this post from a while back, but the pics are gone...

Old post...

grote15 · October 12, 2007 11:27AM

Flip looks counterfeit to me. McGwire RCs were commanding big bucks back in the day and this one may have been floating around since that time. If it is counterfeit, it's a very good one.

TNTonPMS · October 12, 2007 12:00PM

Looks fine to me . . . . I feel the 9 is a little generous though

grote15 · October 12, 2007 12:02PM

I feel the 9 is a little generous though

Even for a counterfeit??

cravetopps · October 12, 2007 12:51PM

looks authentic and I agree, the 9 is generous.

digicat · October 12, 2007 4:02PM

Asside from being faded, the card looks authentic under magnification. (crosshatch patern in the solid blue border (authentic) as opposed to dots (fake))

So, the big question is, does the flip look authentic?

digicat · May 1, 2008 7:23AM

Old thread, but it's relevant. I finally got around to sending this McGwire back in for inspection.

Sure enough:

FAKE CARD
FAKE FLIP
ALTERED SLAB

I let them keep the card for their archives.

I also gave them info on the seller I got it from, but more likely than not, this card has changed hands many times through the past 10 years, but this one's done.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · May 1, 2008 7:50AM

Thanks for the update. I was interested in the outcome. I thought something was wrong since the pic was different in so many ways.

SoonerCowboy · May 1, 2008 9:34AM

Well That sucks. I was a big McGwire fan and in 1997 I bought a full set with his rc because I thought he would break the record soon. I know he juiced but he actually got me back into collecting after a 10 year layoff.

SportsItUpCards · May 1, 2008 9:50AM

Definetly something going on with those 2 botton corners, especialy the botton right one!

Giovanni

gumbyfan · May 1, 2008 9:52AM

<< <i>Definetly something going on with those 2 botton corners, especialy the botton right one!

Giovanni >>

Thanks for your crack analysis.

And timely at that.

swartz1 · May 1, 2008 9:57AM

let it go...

gumbyfan · May 1, 2008 10:00AM

<< <i>let it go... >>

I'll let it go when I can stop deleting the spam he signed me up for. Thanks for your input.

joeknowscards · May 1, 2008 10:22AM

Card looks weird. I have one and it doesn't look like that, it looks like the other, non-counterfeit picture. The E lines up like digicats. To agree with the last post, the 9 is generous too

Joe Knows Cards

samspop · May 1, 2008 11:11AM

Here is one I currently have on auction...this is a recent slab (1 month or so ago)....

DeutscherGeist · February 3, 2010 5:20PM

I would have liked to see the pic of the fake card and flip. It seemed as though a lot of us were thrown off. It was a very good counterfeit.

Now, you sent it to PSA and they gave you a report, but you let them keep the card and slab? I hope you didn't spend serious money on it. Did PSA in anyway compensate you? I think their policy is if the slab was not altered, they are responsible. Since the slab was not sonically sealed by PSA, its no longer their responsibility as they did not misjudge this particular card. Still, out of goodwill, I thought they might do something because they need to know that their products are not totally tamper proof and should be thankful to you for getting this off the market because it can be perceived as reflecting poorly on them.

K · February 3, 2010 8:53PM

This happened 2 years ago... Are you seriously going to be doing this all day?

Help with a McGwire rc, legit PSA flip? Fake card or variation? CONFIRMED: FAKE CARD &amp; FLIP

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Help with a McGwire rc, legit PSA flip? Fake card or variation? CONFIRMED: FAKE CARD & FLIP