What ever happened to stamp collecting?

GritsMan · September 30, 2007 1:32AM

I have seen references to the decline of stamp collecting here and there on this forum. I was an avid collector as an adolescent. Then, I dropped it. Next time I looked (15 years later), mint stamps were worth about as much as toilet paper.

I'd love to hear some perspectives from anyone that witnessed the whole thing--and whether there was any relationship to coin collecting. I have my own theories involving Ronald Reagan and the institutionalization of Greed, but seek INFORMED thoughts better than my own. What got me thinking about it is the Mint's proposal for NASA coins, and remembering what spectacular space stamps have been put out by the USPS in the past. Thanks!

fc · September 30, 2007 1:35AM

well i know it tanked due to lack of interest. to summarize it.

but notice right now dealers are trying to rehype it. getting ads
in magazines stating that so and so stamp in ultra rare! and slabbed.
lol.

so stamps have hit such a hard rock bottom it is now time again to
start the marketing cycle and get some fish on the hooks.

planetsteve · September 30, 2007 1:35AM

<< I have seen references to the decline of stamp collecting here and there on this forum. I was an avid collector as an adolescent. Then, I dropped it. Next time I looked (15 years later), mint stamps were worth about as much as toilet paper.
>>

Ditto for me. My expectation is that slabbed stamps (begun by PSE in 2000) will enjoy spectacular results -- and the already have -- for stamps in truly superb condition. Anything less and anything from after the 1930's will have no gains unless there is a HUGE increase in the number of collectors.

vega1 · September 30, 2007 1:37AM

<< What ever happened to stamp collecting? >>

email

Michigan · September 30, 2007 1:45AM

I don't follow the hobby closely but some of things I have heard sound very familiar to coins - a major one is the lack of young people
involved with the stamp collecting another is a prolonged and ugly struggle for the direction and control of the main stamp collecting organization (shades of the ANA), I think things are better in that area now.

My own theory is that stamps are not used as much in everyday life by many people due to electronic bill paying etc. so that
if they are out of sight they are out of mind as a potential hobby interest.

Could debit cards mean that coin collecting will go the way of stamp collecting?

fc · September 30, 2007 1:47AM

Could debit cards mean that coin collecting will go the way of stamp collecting?

lol. only if you make the money worth nothing! oh, er, hm.

they already did and getting closer to 0 everyday.
so why would people care again? ;-)

coin collecting will stay because some people want real assets.
copper, silver, gold, plat, etc...

DoubleEagle59 · September 30, 2007 1:48AM

I'm in my forties and I went to a stamp auction about 4 years ago and I was the youngest one there. Felt good to be a 'youngster' again.

I would estimate the average age at this auction was somewhere in the 60's.

Definitely the number one reason why the trend of stamp collecting has taken a big downturn.

Michigan · September 30, 2007 1:56AM

<< I'm in my forties and I went to a stamp auction about 4 years ago and I was the youngest one there. Felt good to be a 'youngster' again.

I would estimate the average age at this auction was somewhere in the 60's.

Definitely the number one reason why the trend of stamp collecting has taken a big downturn. >>

I went to a stamp show a few years ago since it was close to where I live and I just wanted to
see what was going on.

I felt like I walked into a retirement home social gathering, I think nearly everyone was 65+. I don't think I saw more than one person
who looked under forty. Did buy a few sheets of old stamps with nice designs at under face value to use for postage.

GritsMan · September 30, 2007 2:06AM

Some good observations. I hadn't thought of the email link--though I believe stamps declined well before that phenomenon. It did raise another theory...

Stamp collecting is basically a "reflective" hobby. You sit there, look at the stamps, appreciate their beauty and notice their details. Almost nothing in our society encourages this kind of reflection today. It's all about sensory input and having external gadgets that stimulate. Very few young people even know how to sit still anymore without some kind of sensory stimulus bombarding them.

Of course coin collecting is also a reflective hobby. Perhaps the only key difference is that coins are perceived to have an innate value in their metal content. I hope that is not the case, but I think it's true. If so, about the only way to reinvigorate the hobby would be to have 100 million people haul their television sets, Game-boys, and cell phones out to the local landfills. Hm... not a bad idea! (Just leave my computer alone!)

Coxe · September 30, 2007 2:07AM

1) The USPS saturated the market with way too many commemmorative designs. (The Mint is dangerously getting there too. I know; it is really Cngress behind it.) The post office now looks like a boutique gift store with teddy bears and movie promotion crap for sale.

2) eBay counterfeit stamps flooded the market, convincingly, for a long time before people realized it. This put a huge margin of distrust around the hobby.

3) Kids have changed. Boys aren't reading Boy's Life and ordering from Mystic Stamp Co. anymore. They are working on getting carpal tunnel syndrome before age 16 with their PS3 and Xbox playing. It's sad that there are extremely rare individual kids who share the education many of us did in collecting stamps in our own youth.

4) Pre-64 dimes on up and modern bullion still have intrinsic value even if they are common as water. Common stamps are worthless paper scraps on the other hand.

It's dead. I'd still think accumulating top-notch rare issues will have a future as it will come back and be at least temporarily hot, like currency has been for a little while now.

edited to add>>>>

5) Think people don't use cash much anymore? People REALLY don't send letters anymore. Much of the mail is metered too and stamps are the self adhesive variety for the most part. For those reasons, stamps aren't part of much of our lives anymore at all, except maybe arounf holiday time when people send stacks of cards out. Forgot that point.

GEM100 · September 30, 2007 2:08AM

Stamp Collecting is not dead, but rather, enjoying a robust resurgence. I would agree that 5+ years ago, stamps were nearly DOA.

But then, PSE [Professional Stamp Experts, divison of Collectors Universe], launched a numerical grading system in 2001, and stamps have turned from a boring hobby to a vibrant and exciting market. The Graded Stamp Market has been gathering steam ever since the introduction of TPG.

Fifteen years ago, I had few clients under the age of 65. Today, I have few clients over the age of 55, with the vast majority in their 40's or early 50's.

To get an idea of what is actually going on, I recommend a visit to my website gradedstamps.com

Steve Crippe
gradedstamps.com

fc · September 30, 2007 2:13AM

gem100, nice marketing. you must do a lot of that.

and a grading company coming along only helped you market
it better.

let me guess, the grading company is a dealer and he knows all the
other dealers too?

Michigan · September 30, 2007 2:18AM

Are there any TV shop at home shows for stamps? I have never seen them while channel flipping.

Coins and card shop at home shows are all over the tube, I think that tells you something about the popularity of stamps as a
collectable.

Arizonadesertrat · September 30, 2007 2:21AM

A couple of coin dealers in Tucson also handle stamps, and I asked them about the state of stamp collecting. Answer: it's nearly dead, their profits in stamp sales are huge (unlike coins), but their volumes are tiny compared to the numbers of coins they sell.

100proof1957 · September 30, 2007 2:23AM

Spoke with an old time dealer a while back.

The premier cataloguer and price guide for stamps, SCOTT ,decided to adjust catalog prices downward by 50 % essentialy destroying the market for all but the rarest items.

In fact,common stamps of the 30's and 40's sell for about 75 % of face in mint condition.

Coxe · September 30, 2007 2:25AM

<< In fact,common stamps of the 30's and 40's sell for about 75 % of face in mint condition. >>

That is disturbing. Perhaps also why one eBay seller plasters them on the boxes that are sent out for normal postage. Can't see, though, why they would sell for less than 100% of face. I guess it is the Coinstar sort of ways of thinking.

GEM100 · September 30, 2007 2:28AM

fc,

You guess wrong. PSE does not buy or sell stamps. They grade stamps for a fee. They make their money providing the grading service.

Stamp grading is where coin grading was about 15 years ago. Stamps are easier to "screw with" than coins, so independent grading makes a lot of sense.

There a stamp grading haters out there....they are the guys that would rather sling the overgraded/misdescribed/misrepresented garbage to unsuspecting buyers.

Zoins · September 30, 2007 2:28AM

<< 

<< In fact,common stamps of the 30's and 40's sell for about 75 % of face in mint condition. >>

That is disturbing. Perhaps also why one eBay seller plasters them on the boxes that are sent out for normal postage. Can't see, though, why they would sell for less than 100% of face. I guess it is the Coinstar sort of ways of thinking. >>

Supply and demand. No one wants them.

As for being valued at less than face value, perhaps there are transaction and inventory costs involved. Perhaps there's no way to redeem them en masse so you would have to hold an inventory that would lose value against inflation so the inventory costs, transaction costs of using them a bit a time and projected value decline are built into the price.

GEM100 · September 30, 2007 2:30AM

Michigan,

Actually, your pal Mr. Chambers does have stamps segment that runs a couple of times a week on ShopatHomeTV.

edmerlr · September 30, 2007 2:37AM

I don't know what the "overall reason" for the decline in the numbers of stamp collectors.

...but I lost interest many years ago when the post office started looking for any excuse in the world to print more and more new stamps - above and beyond what was needed for use as postage - just to make a profit off of the collectors.

I suspect this is where the U.S. Mint came up with the idea to do the same.

Ed R.

GEM100 · September 30, 2007 2:40AM

The Scott catalog retail price adjustment occurred in 1988.

Just like coins, not every stamp issued is a grading candidate. A small percentage of the total universe, in fact.

In stamps, the modern era starts at about 1930. Only the drop dead well-centered copies post 1930 are grading candidates. The rest are discount postage. 75% of Face is an accurate for a buy price on modern common stuff, we sell it at around 90%, +/-.

Unlike coins, recent issues are not grading candidates, since 90% of the stamp production today are self-adhesives. So stamps, which have a constantly shrinking supply, are unlike coins that has a constantly increasing supply of grading candidates.

Zoins · September 30, 2007 2:41AM

<< I don't know what the "overall reason" for the decline in the numbers of stamp collectors.

...but I lost interest many years ago when the post office started looking for any excuse in the world to print more and more new stamps - above and beyond what was needed for use as postage - just to make a profit off of the collectors.

I suspect this is where the U.S. Mint came up with the idea to do the same. >>

Is it the US Mint or Congress? Be sure to properly give credit where it's due

Shamika · September 30, 2007 3:02AM

Here's a great story about a lost stamp of great value.

KentuckyJ · September 30, 2007 3:12AM

You do know there is a stamp forum here on the CU message boards?

The stamp grading company, PSE, is a division of CLCT, which also owns PCGS. If you do a little looking around you'll find David Hall has a truly phenomenal registry set on the stamp side. Van Simmons, of David Hall Rare Coins, also has top quality stamp sets on the registry.

The action in stamps is on the high grade certified side. Stamps are not even close to being dead.

KJ

GritsMan · September 30, 2007 3:15AM

<< Here's a great story about a lost stamp of great value. >>

That IS a great story. Thanks for the link!

mozin · September 30, 2007 3:18AM

I collected stamps back in the 1950s, spent a lot of my allowance money on stamps. Hit high school and discovered girls were more interesting, so I stopped buying stamps. In 2005 I finally sold all my stamps---for a grand total of $175! Not a very good investment, especially considering a 1950 dollar is worth about ten dollars today.

fastrudy · September 30, 2007 3:21AM

The stamp forum is so empty that when you post something there you hear an echo.

I think you can even design your own postage on line. I will try to find the link.

fastrudy · September 30, 2007 3:23AM

Found it!

stamps.com

You can even make stamps out of your favorite coin photos. Great for Holiday cards for you dealers out there.

LanLord · September 30, 2007 3:28AM

I wish the price of stamps would tank enough so that I could afford these:

roadrunner · September 30, 2007 3:29AM

I think old stamps are cool. Most have never seen them. If the opportunity presented itself to me I could see buying top specimens of slabbed stamps. It makes perfect sense that top thinkers like David Hall are putting stuff like this away for themselves. Same goes for paper currency.

What drove me away from stamps were coins and the bull market of the 1970's. Other reasons included this odd thing about "centering" and "perfect" gums. When I owned the stamps they were never quite centered enough or the gums were slightly off. At least that's what dealers said. But most of my stamps got licked or hinged and mounted. But it seemed odd to me that a tiny difference in centering meant the diff between a good stamp and an also ran. Yet in coins, an uncentered coin is usually worth a premium.

But there was also something good about holding a precious silver or gold coin in one's hand.

roadrunner

Overdate · September 30, 2007 3:30AM

Unlike coins, recent issues are not grading candidates, since 90% of the stamp production today are self-adhesives.

How do you get a self-adhesive stamp into an album without it sticking to the plastic mount?

Just curious.

KentuckyJ · September 30, 2007 3:39AM

Another coin guy into certified stamps:

Jay Parrino

BTW, if anyone wants to take a look at what is happening in stamps, which are only about 5 years into the grading renaissance, Steve Crippe's site is an excellent place to begin:

gradedstamps.com

I like GEM100 just as much as dizzy likes Anaconda

KJ

speety · September 30, 2007 3:41AM

<< 

<< What ever happened to stamp collecting? >>

email >>

LMAO

GEM100 · September 30, 2007 3:43AM

On self-adhesives, if they are still affixed to the backing paper [MINT], just use stamp mounts that are slightly larger, than the stamp.

If they are USED, just hinge 'em.

au58 · September 30, 2007 3:47AM

<< 1) The USPS saturated the market with way too many commemmorative designs. (The Mint is dangerously getting there too. I know; it is really Cngress behind it.) The post office now looks like a boutique gift store with teddy bears and movie promotion crap for sale. >>

This is right on the mark.

There are just way too many categories and way too much stuff to even specialize and be considered relevant.

Look at what has value - extreme grades, esoterics (errors, obscure postmarks, etc.), unique covers, etc.

Zoins · September 30, 2007 3:59AM

<< There are just way too many categories and way too much stuff to even specialize and be considered relevant.

Look at what has value - extreme grades, esoterics (errors, obscure postmarks, etc.), unique covers, etc. >>

Isn't that the same advice we've been hearing about coin collecting?

mnmcoin · September 30, 2007 4:08AM

The main problem is the supplies are so expensive. To do it right, they are downright prohibitive. That means that young collectors (the life blood of any hobby) simply can not get involved.

So, the old collectors and dying off and there is no one to replace them.

morris

TomB · September 30, 2007 4:18AM

<< What ever happened to stamp collecting? >>

It blazed the trail for coin collecting to follow.

Weiss · September 30, 2007 4:39AM

I collected stamps for about a week when I was maybe 10 years old. Then I got over it.

Stamps are ugly, uninteresting, utilitiarian. They're designed to be destroyed. They're the salt in the wound--a miniature bill you have to pay on your other bills.

The invention of coinage is one of the most important abstract ideas in the history of modern humans. Coinage catapulted trade and commerce, which fueled exploration and discovery. Coins, as we know them, have been a witness to every major event in human history in the last 2,500 years. We associate coins with the very essence of history and excitement. Pirates had fistfulls of coins. Templars hid casks of coins. Queens and kings paid ransoms of coins.

Stamps have been around since...1840. Seated coinage predates stamps. They're the ultimate in Modern Crap™. Important letters had always been sent prior to their invention--stamps just paved the way for junk mail.

We associate stamps with the mundane and unpleasant. Rude postal workers begrudingly hand you your stamps after reminding you that they've just gone up in price. Again. There are no postage stamps in the bible.

Two sides to a coin? Heads or tails? Flip a coin to decide? Try that with a stamp.

Fire? Flood? Hurricane? Too much sunlight? Too much moisture? Too dry? Too hot? Mold? Mildew? A slight breeze? Poof. End of stamp.

Imagine Odyssey bringing up trunks of postage stamps from the SS Republic. Talk about "shipwreck effect"!

But the most important reason that stamps suck is that they are the exact, precise opposite of coins.

Coins were created so that anyone, anywhere could exchange anything for them. Over and over again, across borders, around the world, throughout history. Their use, in theory as well as in practice for much of history, is literally unlimited.

Stamps are made to be used for one and only one thing. That's it. And once they're used, they're literally garbage. They are the toothpick, the twist-tie, the tampon of the collecting world.

Yuck. Why collect something so tedious?

cmerlo1 · September 30, 2007 4:42AM

<< I wish the price of stamps would tank enough so that I could afford these:

>>

Im with you (I collect airship memorabilia)...I you like those, check these out:

Zeps

DoubleEagle59 · September 30, 2007 4:42AM

In fact,common stamps of the 30's and 40's sell for about 75 % of face in mint condition.

This is so true.

I can always tell a stamp dealer when I receive a letter in the post and it has instead of one current stamp on it, it has seven small denomination stamps from the 40's.

StampAlarm · September 30, 2007 5:14AM

Someone bought up all the stamps and they just ain't's around anymore!

CoinOnTheCob · September 30, 2007 5:27AM

<< Stamps are made to be used for one and only one thing. That's it. And once they're used, they're literally garbage. They are the toothpick, the twist-tie, the tampon of the collecting world. >>

and

@ Weiss.

KentuckyJ · September 30, 2007 5:31AM

> Someone bought up all the stamps

Yesterday's Nutmeg Premier Graded auction saw some very high prices realized. Bill Gross of Pimco is one of the brightest investors in the financial markets. He moved into stamps a few years ago and recently raised something like 6 million dollars, as a charity donation for Doctors Without Borders, by selling his Great Britain collection. I think, in the past five years of PSE grading, it's probable the rate of return on quality stamps has exceeded that of US coins.

KJ

Zoins · September 30, 2007 5:38AM

<< I think, in the past five years of PSE grading, it's probable the rate of return on quality stamps has exceeded that of US coins. >>

For that kind of comparison to be useful, you probably need to be specific about the basket of stamps and basket of coins you are comparing.

GritsMan · September 30, 2007 6:12AM

I wish Weiss wasn't so wishy-washy with his opinions. Stand up for something Man!

PrivateCoinCollector · September 30, 2007 6:14AM

They moved it to another forum.

edueku · September 30, 2007 6:17AM

Graded stamps are just as viable as any other current graded collectible. To each his own. I would have never gotten back into collecting single stamps were it not for third party grading.