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The Chinese counterfeit problem...it's entering a new phase.
291fifth
Posts: 24,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
No longer is it just silver dollars, now they are expanding into much more.
Can anything be done about it? Does anyone actually care?
Am I the only one that thinks this has become a real threat to the well being of US numismatics?
Can anything be done about it? Does anyone actually care?
Am I the only one that thinks this has become a real threat to the well being of US numismatics?
All glory is fleeting.
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If everyone has a weapon than we can win the war
forum members (after all are we not here to share knowledge and prevent disasters?) so that they don't make
the same mistakes some of us have. Can't catch them all for sure. Yes, they are now making CC trade dollars in
the correct weight and maybe even overweight! That's making it worse. Can we stop them? No,, we can't, but
ebay has the power to shut them down. US Raw coins from China or asia should be banned unless they meet the
new ebay rules for slabbing. Then, fake slabs will become the biggest problem, hmmmmmmm.
bob
Can you be more specific with some data to illustrate your point?
1879, 1880 & 1881 Shield nickels
1901-S Barber Dime
1932-D Quarter
1909-S VDB cent
1909-S Indian cent
assorted half dollars
among others.
The shield nickels have been seen both with and without "replica" stamped on the reverse.
I'm sure there are plenty of others.
of counterfeits.
<< <i> At what point will the US government step in and do something about it. >>
Treasury agents are buried tracking down crooks passing millions in paper
currency. A ton of counterfeit coins passing between dealers collectors is a small matter.
<< <i>
<< <i> At what point will the US government step in and do something about it. >>
Treasury agents are buried tracking down crooks passing millions in paper
currency. A ton of counterfeit coins passing between dealers collectors is a small matter. >>
There are many other counterfeits being made and sold, including luxury goods, tech parts, DVDs, CDs, software, video games. The fake U. S. coins are likely to be less than 0.1% of the problem.
Perhaps 2% of collectors can authenticate coins well enough to ferret out the better fakes. The majority of collectors can't grade with consistency, how in the world can they authenticate? It takes years to learn authentication, and staying up to speed requires being well connected in the knowledge loop as new fakes come on the market. The fakes are likely to continue get better each and every year.
such as the: 1921 5c, 1890-H 50c, 1875-H 25c, 1889 25c, 1884 10c.
lots of them lately, but they are very easy to tell (so far).
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
for the small percentage of collectors who can discern real from fake. that's not the majority
of collectors though. lot of people have the type of activities in a day that do not allow for
the research it takes and rely on some level of market confidence.
and once that confidence diminishes, as it will shortly be as things progress, it will reduce what
the average collector is willing to risk. if anything at all.
<< <i>Can anything be done about it? Does anyone actually care?
Am I the only one that thinks this has become a real threat to the well being of US numismatics? >>
Declare war on China!
<< <i> only buy coins from the US Mint. That way I never have to worry about counterfeits >>
maybe the worst angle of all. paying the mint markup where other areas of numismatics may be offering discounts,
then suffering the wrath of confidence on the secondary market when it's time to sell.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>They're more than a numifmatic threat and there is fomething that can be done about it. >>
Have you been perufing feveral 18th century documents lately, Cladiator?
<< <i>
<< <i>They're more than a numifmatic threat and there is fomething that can be done about it. >>
Have you been perufing feveral 18th century documents lately, Cladiator?
<< <i>people can say that knowlege will protect them and that's technically true...
for the small percentage of collectors who can discern real from fake. that's not the majority
of collectors though. lot of people have the type of activities in a day that do not allow for
the research it takes and rely on some level of market confidence.
and once that confidence diminishes, as it will shortly be as things progress, it will reduce what
the average collector is willing to risk. if anything at all. >>
Exactly. People who casually collect and enjoy the hobby on a part time basis will suffer and be afraid to buy anything too pricey. Ebay will die a fast death for alot of people. I wont buy on there anymore. I'd rather go through reputable dealers with REAL guarantees of authenticity. Looking for cool coins in circulation is also an option, but getting fooled by fake coins and slabs isn't.
<< <i>One of the good things about being a "label buying chump": the authenticity guarantee
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>No longer is it just silver dollars, now they are expanding into much more.
Can anything be done about it? Does anyone actually care?
Am I the only one that thinks this has become a real threat to the well being of US numismatics? >>
No longer? Now?
Where have you been? The Chinese have been counterfeiting 1875 five French Francs pieces, 1937 British Crowns, 1907 German 50 Marcs, 1882 Mexican 8 reals, 1959 Bermuda crowns, 1947 Mexican 50 Pesos, Thalers and probably a host of other coins.
They are polluting World Numismatics, not just U.S. Numismatics.
Can anything be done? Other than becoming informed about what you are purchasing, probably not.
The Chinese Gov. does not seem to be overly concerned that their country is sending out products into the world that will kill its customers, so I cannot see them being overly concerned about the authenticity of the coins it’s citizens sell to people who live outside of China.
"I has a bucket." - Minazo.
Minazo the LOLRUS, 1994-2005
AJ
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Well, just Love coins, period.
As to the counterfeiting of our coins and currency, why not return the favor?? I would hope that our government is already printing the appropriate amount of Chinese counterfeit currency and returning it into their market places. I say what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.
Iran and China---and others---are out to get us. No matter what we do or what they say. They want to ruin our economy. We MUST understand this and treat them as they are treating us. Only if you hurt them worse than they are hurting us, will they ever stop. They must laugh at us as they use our sense of 'fair play'---AGAINST US. America is at war already. We had better wake up and realize this and do something about it. It isn't just terrorists with bombs on airplanes. Sorry for the rant. Bob [supertooth]
<< <i>I hate China! >>
Paper plates for you?
As to the counterfeiting of our coins and currency, why not return the favor?? I would hope that our government is already printing the appropriate amount of Chinese counterfeit currency and returning it into their market places. I say what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.
Iran and China---and others---are out to get us. No matter what we do or what they say. They want to ruin our economy. We MUST understand this and treat them as they are treating us. Only if you hurt them worse than they are hurting us, will they ever stop. They must laugh at us as they use our sense of 'fair play'---AGAINST US. America is at war already. We had better wake up and realize this and do something about it. It isn't just terrorists with bombs on airplanes. Sorry for the rant. Bob [supertooth]
It's no joke. It's very real. Don't buy China-anything. It's your health and safety that you are gambling with, and their stuff is crap anyway.
I knew it would happen.
Well, just Love coins, period.
When the American consumer decides to support American products then and only then will we as a country start back on the road to being a self sufficent country again.
Dont buy from China if you can avoid it. They already own too much of this country.
One more thing..... I think the NAFTA treaty is akin to the Rosenburgs selling atomic bomb secrets. A traitorious act. ( please excuse my spelling . Havent had my 5 cups of coffee yet)
(climbing down off soap box now)
They have more time to counterfeit because of the toy recall. HA HA! They have to make a dollar too. Excuse me,I meant .12 an hour. This is the best way to avoid the problem. DON'T BUY THEM!!!!!!!!!!
eddye
GO STEELERS
to fool the masses. These are the small dollar coins---SBAs and SACs
which are now circulating in South America by the millions.
Could this be the reason why the US Government has not obsoleted
the one dollar bill?
When I was a kid in the 60's, all the cheap 2 cent toys had a "Made in Japan" label on them. When something broke down we always said "It must be Made in Japan". It's funny we don't say that now. Now we envy Japanese made products (cars come to mind) and their work ethic.
Now it's China's turn. Cheap products that are always breaking down are coming from China in a big way. Health issues and their quality control is not very good. But...it would be interesting to leap forward twenty years and see the quality of their products. I'm guessing they'll be doing very well in America selling automobiles and other fine products that don't break down.
I'm definitely not pro-Chinese, I'm just seeing reality, that's all.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
sold in the US but they probably will in the future. They are eager to enter the US market.
I recently heard a talk by Bill Burgess from Burgess Optical who markets telescope and eyepieces for the amateur astronomy community. He made a trip to China to look for good glass and found that the Chinese are quite capable of manufacturing to the highest quality standards. The issue is the price point where the most profit can be made. It is often more profitable to sell one million items at a cost of $.23 than it is to sell 10 at $10000 cost. It's all about the business case and what the market will bear in terms of supply and demand. The coin market is interesting in that the supply of our items is fixed which drives up the price. Since the demand is there for rare coins it is a no brainer for the unscrupulous to want to manufacture dupes with the highest quality. Doesn't make it right and it scares the crap out of me, but I do think the Chinese are very capable and very motivated. Incidentally, there is an article in the November issue of Coin Values on copy coins. I've never seen one of these up close and personal, but the pictures in the magazine are very convincing. Just remove the "COPY" designation and I think most of us would have a hard time telling the difference. Again, very scary.
E PLVRIBVS VNVM
I think that besides trying to shop for alternatives (a good idea) that we should also try to support the mom and pop businesses when we can (OK that was self-serving). I think that corporate America was instrumental in shoving that NAFTA thing down our throats. What is also even more scary is that NAFTA has pretty much been superceded by what the Chinese have done as they have blown out "South of the Border" manufacturing with even cheaper labor prices.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Coming probably in the next few years - cars made in China. So far they would not pass certain safety and air pollution standards to be
sold in the US but they probably will in the future. They are eager to enter the US market. >>
I have been keeping up with that, and Chrysler will be having a Dodge model built in the near future by a Chinese company called CHERY (pronounced like cherry). There goes the big 3!
<< <i>
<< <i>Coming probably in the next few years - cars made in China. So far they would not pass certain safety and air pollution standards to be
sold in the US but they probably will in the future. They are eager to enter the US market. >>
I have been keeping up with that, and Chrysler will be having a Dodge model built in the near future by a Chinese company called CHERY (pronounced like cherry). There goes the big 3!
The Detriot big 3 are doing a well enough job of losing market share without the Chinese....
is beer and watered down whiskey.
This was frankly puzzling to me. The EU has extremely low tariffs on non-agricultural goods, averaging 1 to 3 percent. I have my own suspicions about the causes, but it would be un-PC to state them here, as well as too far off the topic of coins!
<< <i>Wheredo you find things from the UK or Germany? All I can find from there
is beer and watered down whiskey. >>
Lets see....Braun electric razors, Bosch washer and dryers, and Flexi dog leashes - all three are made in Germany (or "Deutschland" for those who speak "Deutsche")