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1962 TOPPS BASEBALL BUCKS - UNFOLDED
psa10fan
Posts: 73
I have just listed 78 of the 1962 Topps Baseball Bucks on eBay, including 22 of the seldom seen unfolded version. There is an interesting and intriguing story behind the PSA grading of these.
A number of years ago, I was the first collector to submit these Baseball Bucks to PSA for grading. Because of the customary fold that occured when these were inserted in packs, PSA understandably graded most of these 3s, 4s, or 5s, as is usual with an items that has a crease. Later, as other collectors began submitting these to PSA, a shift was made by PSA, based on what appears to be an assumption that only a folded version of this item existed. PSA began giving grades 6s, 7s, 8s, and even some 9s, disregarding the crease created by the fold and grading the item based on the other factors of centering, corners, surface, wear, etc.
Last year, I won a group of these Bucks in a Mastro auction. The group included 72 of the unfolded versions. I had personally seen a few of these unfolded versions back in the 1970's and 1980's, and I was aware of how rare these were. That was part of my motivation for bidding on the lot in the auction. When I sent the entire lot in to PSA, I was surprised when they graded all the ones that had been folded, but returned all the unfolded ones with the note, "not encapsulated; holder not available." That seemed odd to me. After several phone calls to PSA I got the matter clarified. The head grader at PSA, I was told, had never seen these unfolded versions before and assumed they were not authentic, that they were a photo copy or a counterfeit of the folded version. When I immediately FAXED to PSA the auction listing from the Mastro auction house, they agreed that these were authentic, and agreed to grade them. An interesting dilemma occured, of course. Now there were graded versions of this issue that had no crease, no fold, and were in significantly better condition, therefore, than the folded ones. The only solution left for PSA was to distinguish this rare version as "unfolded" and grade them on the same basis as they have graded the folded ones.
You can see some of these unfolded specimens by doing a search on ebay: 1962 Topps Bucks Unfolded.
What are some of your experiences with these unfolded bucks. I'm curious to know exactly how scarce these are.
A number of years ago, I was the first collector to submit these Baseball Bucks to PSA for grading. Because of the customary fold that occured when these were inserted in packs, PSA understandably graded most of these 3s, 4s, or 5s, as is usual with an items that has a crease. Later, as other collectors began submitting these to PSA, a shift was made by PSA, based on what appears to be an assumption that only a folded version of this item existed. PSA began giving grades 6s, 7s, 8s, and even some 9s, disregarding the crease created by the fold and grading the item based on the other factors of centering, corners, surface, wear, etc.
Last year, I won a group of these Bucks in a Mastro auction. The group included 72 of the unfolded versions. I had personally seen a few of these unfolded versions back in the 1970's and 1980's, and I was aware of how rare these were. That was part of my motivation for bidding on the lot in the auction. When I sent the entire lot in to PSA, I was surprised when they graded all the ones that had been folded, but returned all the unfolded ones with the note, "not encapsulated; holder not available." That seemed odd to me. After several phone calls to PSA I got the matter clarified. The head grader at PSA, I was told, had never seen these unfolded versions before and assumed they were not authentic, that they were a photo copy or a counterfeit of the folded version. When I immediately FAXED to PSA the auction listing from the Mastro auction house, they agreed that these were authentic, and agreed to grade them. An interesting dilemma occured, of course. Now there were graded versions of this issue that had no crease, no fold, and were in significantly better condition, therefore, than the folded ones. The only solution left for PSA was to distinguish this rare version as "unfolded" and grade them on the same basis as they have graded the folded ones.
You can see some of these unfolded specimens by doing a search on ebay: 1962 Topps Bucks Unfolded.
What are some of your experiences with these unfolded bucks. I'm curious to know exactly how scarce these are.
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Comments
Thanks,
Peter
In FB they were folded and inserted into the regualr issue packs. In BB, they had there own pack and were inserted folded as well. For BB they were not issued in the regular packs. There is no known packing for these that would have allowed them to be issued in the unfolded form and therefore I have always assumed that the unfolded variety were proofs from the factory or factory files.
I suspect that your unfolded bucks are pretty rare and will always be. If graded, will they fit into the regualr bucks set? Some sets have seperate sets listed for the proof issues. I know that for certain wrappers, they were found more in roll form than the issued form and collectors never put the premium on them that I thought they deserved for their pristine condition. I do not know how they will behave for these.
Having submitted the first of other kinds of items, I have wondered about the "fold" rule as well. I have one copy of an insert folded in the pack that looks like an 8 or a 9 yet graded a 5 and I have wondered whether I was penalized for the fold.
Best of Luck,
Fuzz
Bob
email bcmiller7@comcast.net
Tony
Good questions about whether these graded unfolded ones would be counted in the regular set for set registry purposes. I would think it would be a separate set from the folded ones, but don't know for sure how PSA set registry would recognize this. I guess we could test it by entering certification numbers from both types and see if the set registry accepts both in the same set.
Overall, there has never seemed to be the interest in this set as the scarcity and uniqueness would merit. I think it could be a huge "sleeper" in future years as collectors look for alternative issues to collect.
Thanks for your comments.
Bob
I bought a collection from Mastro back four years ago. The collection had a complete set of baseball bucks that were in gorgeous shape. I was told by a friend not to send them in because the best grade you would get was going to be a PSA 5 from the crease that you mentioned. I went ahead and sent them in anyway and got 33 PSA 8s from the batch. I also had twelve come back as ungraded because they did not have the fold line. I did not quite understand their point like you. I ended up selling the set just because of the inconsistancy of PSA on them. The guy that I sold them to folded the fresh copies and sent them in to PSA and he got PSA 7/8s on most of them. I was really pissed after that, not because he made money on it but because I didn't think of it.
Shane
Sorry to hear that Shane, but dam, that had me
PSA 10 Fan...good info, thanks
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Thanks for the information. Your experience mirrors mine. I, too, never thought of folding the unfolded ones to get them graded. I don't think I would have done that, because I knew the unfolded ones were legitimate and eventually PSA would have to grade them. It's just a shame these weren't researched beforehand by PSA before they started giving 8s and 9s on folded ones and rejecting the pristine unfolded ones.
Good luck in your collecting.
Bob
Bob- I guess you can't blame PSA too much for being inconsistant on the rare issues or test issues. They don't see it much and many of the newbie graders have very little knowledge in this area. They should give you comps on those that they did not grade because they are indeed not fakes or reprints.
Shane
This kind of BS needs to stop. I'm assuming here
My take is, this is most likely a PSA member that doesn't want to use his i.d. that everyone sees all the time on ebay. Ebay needs to knock this crap off. Create a new name so you don't get into some kind of bid war. This guy shells out $600 at his first at bat on ebay?? C'mon what first time buyer is specificly looking for folded or unfolded 62's?? Registry upgrades to follow......