OGH....The myth

PrivateCoinCollector · September 23, 2007 8:03AM

It seems like there is a misconception out there that coins in OGH's are under-graded. In another thread someone showed 4, 93-S Morgans and it seems the preponderance of people preferred the coin in the OGH. If this coin was in the hands of a dealer don't you think they would have sprung for the $30 to get the pop? I guarantee that coin (unless it was park of uncle Harold's collection from 25 years ago) has been re-submitted more than once. The notion that you can buy a coin in OGH from any knowledgeable seller and get an upgrade are not as high as you think. What is really interesting is because of this notion coins in OGH’s sometimes sell for more than there counterparts on current PCGS slabs. And the dealers don’t seem to mind.

Can anyone share stories of their upgrades on coins in OGH's they purchased from a dealer? I have heard some, but at no greater rate then breaking them out of any other PCGS slab.

ColonialCoinUnion · September 23, 2007 8:11AM

<< I guarantee that coin (unless it was park of uncle Harold's collection from 25 years ago) has been re-submitted more than once. >>

This topic has been discussed extensively in past threads and it might be useful for you to search the archives and read some of those as they provided, often, a useful perspective.

As for your guarantee, I think you are mistaken since any coin re-submitted even one time wouldn't be in a green holder anymore.

BlindedByEgo · September 23, 2007 8:20AM

<< 
As for your guarantee, I think you are mistaken since any coin re-submitted even one time wouldn't be in a green holder anymore. >>

Coudn't agree more. An opinion, maybe, but not a resubmission even once. Resubmission guarantees a reholder.

I'll edit to add that I own a number of coins in 1st gen and OGH as well as NGC fatties that I may never resubmit. Outside of a few, they are liner coins that don't go up in price massively at the next grade of plastic, but will bring a premium because a) they are solid for the assigned grade and b) of the myth.

PrivateCoinCollector · September 23, 2007 8:28AM

So you guys would let them reholder a coin in the same grade? Are you saying if you send in a MS 63 with a minimum grade of 64 you get it back in a new 63 holder?

ColonialCoinUnion · September 23, 2007 8:32AM

<< So you guys would let them reholder a coin in the same grade? Are you saying if you send in a MS 63 with a minimum grade of 64 you get it back in a new 63 holder? >>

OK, I think you are confused.

If you send a coin to PCGS for 'regrade in the holder', PCGS will crack it out, have the graders re-grade it and then it will be re-holdered in a new holder. Under the regrade submission, PCGS guarantees that the grade will not be lower than the original grade.

But you can't specify 'minimum of 64' or anything like that on a regrade. That would only be for a cross-over.

DorkGirl · September 23, 2007 8:32AM

I didn't even notice what flavor of plastic it was in, I could care less. It just happened to be the coin I liked the most out of the bunch. Your assumption that I picked it because of the holder it was in is totally off base.

roadrunner · September 23, 2007 8:36AM

I consistently buy coins from several wholesalers that often have oghs and NGC fatties in their wares. On a monthly basis I pick up a fattie or ogh/rattler that is decidedly upper end or upgradeable. While I rarely choose to take the upgrade route these days, I often can get additional 10-50% premiums for these coins. Therefore I'd say your premise is not correct...at least not for me. There are stashes of ogh's out there that trickle to market or come out in an entire collection. Ignoring them is fine. I love to end up with them.

3 weeks ago I picked up a higher end seated half in an NGC MS65 fattie circa 1990/no bar code holder. I'm having much better luck picking up the fatties than the ogh's. One of my local dealers gets in ogh's all the time as collectors sell off their stuff. He charges zero premium for them unless they are godzilla no-brainer undergrades. While I pass on the so-so or problem pieces, I am happy to get the nice ones if he offers them. I show up routinely in that shop and there are always old holder newps there to greet me. On ebay the number of worthwhile and buyable old holder coins has been dwindling significantly. But out on the street at local shops, I see no change in availability....yet.

The misconception is that there are no real opportunities in ogh's and other old holders. And I'm glad that so many continue to pass along that information. Thanks.

roadrunner

Manorcourtman · September 23, 2007 8:43AM

Just sent in a IHC Proof from an OGH PR64 that was cracked out. It came back PR62. Undergraded.....yea right...what an Urban legend.

BlindedByEgo · September 23, 2007 8:43AM

Quiet down, Roadrunner. You'll let the secret out.

fc · September 23, 2007 8:45AM

mucho discusso alreadyo. uso searcho functionano. gracias

oldwestgold · September 23, 2007 8:48AM

I haven't seen too many OGH's lately that are undergraded. But what I do see are coins that are "correctly" graded and original more frequently in OGH's. The other 93's in that example looked processed to me. In all honesty I don't collect Morgans, but when it comes to silver coins I can't stand lifeless, overdipped, unnaturally clean looking low grade coins. Low grade coins should look "used" and dirty that's why I picked the one in the OGH.

roadrunner · September 23, 2007 8:52AM

Just sent in a IHC Proof from an OGH PR64 that was cracked out. It came back PR62. Undergraded.....yea right...what an Urban legend.

The problem there lies with the cracker-outer, not the ogh. Many or most ogh's are not worthy. What I'm saying is that the opportunities to buy worthy ones occurs very frequently. I've seen ogh dogs I wouldn't dare crack out for fear of a downgrade. But more often, the loser oghs that are cracked out come back BB'd for altered surfaces, AT, contaminants, etc. That's the risky part. It's usually much more safer to send the ogh back for regrade and take your chances....at least it won't downgrade. But I usually take the sure route and just ask for a premium and let the next guy decide what to do with the old holder. But all the above is predicated on finding a worthy coin and knowing it is worthy before sending it back to the TPG. If you're ogh guesses are not working in your favor, then the issue does not lie with the holder or the TPG. If you can get a premium for your ogh from dealers (or at least offers) then you in all likelihood have a worthy coin.

roadrunner

LeeG · September 23, 2007 8:54AM

OGH: Myth or Mystic?

Bochiman · September 23, 2007 8:59AM

<< Just sent in a IHC Proof from an OGH PR64 that was cracked out. It came back PR62. Undergraded.....yea right...what an Urban legend. >>

If you think is upgrade material, don't crack out....re-submit.
Only crack out if borderline or you think you may get a gift.

bestday · September 23, 2007 9:32AM

Not all OGH are undergraded.....but many of these in the past were graded under a different standard...I had a several of 64 , 65 OGH Walkers that were nearly full strike, clean surfaces and with great luster that would beat the pants off many of today's 65 and 66s.
Look at Heritage auctions ..many of the OGHs command a premium over their newer graded brothers

jhdfla · September 23, 2007 9:33AM

Hardly an "urban legend"...
There are collectors who have squirreled away coins from years ago in OGH's and such, which may just have found their way back into the market as well, and have not traded dealer to dealer and made the circuit with the edges all banged up or have been cracked out. There were tons of coins graded back then as well as rattlers and pre-holo NGC's too. Frankly, I like the older NGC's as there is a bias against them in favor of PCGS, (you know, the guy who will only own PCGS graded coins) if you can grade you can often get them at a discount to their correctly graded counterparts in PC holders. Guess you can believe in whatever you want...

John

TomB · September 23, 2007 9:46AM

I will address three points, at least one of which has been addressed by others. If one sends a coin to PCGS for regrade then it is automatically cracked out of the holder. Therefore, no coin in an OGH has gone through this process. The second point is that many coins simply aren't worth the spread to have them regraded in terms of fees, postage and time. Lastly, many other OGH coins will sell at a premium to the stated grade as a reflection of the quality of the coin in the holder.

I also have many OGH, rattler and fatty holders that have coins that are undergraded when viewed using today's standards and in those instances when I have sold such pieces I have typically received the next grade up value for the coin.

roadrunner · September 23, 2007 9:56AM

TomB, shame on you for aiding and abetting the ogh myth.

I had 2 occurrences where I was able to sell rattlers for 1-1/2 grades up.

One was a 1913 PF63 Barber half PCGS and the other was a 1911-s
MS64 Barber 25c. Both coins were obviously no brainer upgrades and each had a good shot for a 2 pt upgrade. I sold the PF63 for PF64.5 money, and the 1911-s for MS65.5 money...in the holders.
Both coins were purchased at auctions. One at Heritage for a strong premium and the other on ebay for no premium. One was a year ago and the other a few years ago.

Another time I sent back 3 PCGS MS65 seated halves for regrade.
1 rattler and 2 OGH's. All came back MS66.

While those opportunities are winding down somewhat, they are far from gone.

roadrunner

fc · September 23, 2007 9:59AM

OGH, MS60. looks sharp in that old holder. not worth busting out.

Mercury10c · September 23, 2007 10:30AM

I've had 3 of 4 Franklins all come back upgraded. These are the only 4 coins I've ever resubmitted. They were all in rattlers, not OGHs.

1953-S MS-64, came back MS-66
1948-P MS-65, came back MS-65FBL
1952-P MS-65, came back MS-66
1951-P MS-65, came back in a new 65 holder.

I will be submitting a 1950-D
which currently resides in a MS-65 OGH. I don't think it will upgrade, but it does have a shot.
My experience with the OGHs is that they are not undergraded, at least with the Franklin series, so I basically agree with you.

bidask · September 23, 2007 10:33AM

<< OGH, MS60. looks sharp in that old holder. not worth busting out.

>>

Nice coin, looks better than a 60.

Bikingnut · September 23, 2007 10:39AM

I personally have never tried to upgrade an OGH coin. I have many, but just like the blue label holders,soem I consider acuratelly graded , and some undergraded. I prefer the green label holders mainly because I like the look better than the blue label holders.

Dennis

FinallyHere · September 24, 2007 12:17AM

I have not taken the time to read each of these posts so I'll just say what the title inspired me to say:

I almost always make it a point to inform people of an OGH within my descriptions, BUT, and this is a BIG BUT (not to be confused with a BIG BUTT or PHAT BUTT

), I do this mainly for information only and not to insinuate anything else. I believe it's most important to mention when dealing with copper. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that everyone would love to know the early half cent or large cent their buying in a red or red-brown holder is still "red" or "red-brown" even after being slabbed for 15 or 20 years.

PerryHall · September 24, 2007 5:02AM

I have many old holders that I bought when they were new holders back in the late 1980's. Most are undergraded by todays standaeds.

LeeG · October 1, 2007 9:20PM

<< I have not taken the time to read each of these posts so I'll just say what the title inspired me to say:

I believe it's most important to mention when dealing with copper. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that everyone would love to know the early half cent or large cent their buying in a red or red-brown holder is still "red" or "red-brown" even after being slabbed for 15 or 20 years. >>

My newest coin in an OGH holder. I don't think it will upgrade. Nice for the grade though.

MORGANHUNTER2 · October 2, 2007 12:00AM

I don't feel that the OGH is a myth.

I have my putaway set in rattlers- why? Because that is when I had them graded- in late 86/early 87. I was happy then with te grade- being as DH looked very carefully at a few of them hisself.

now that was 20 years ago- have the grading standards changed? YES-
could the 22 that are sittin in a SDB upgrade? using todays standards- by a point up- IF you have stored the coffins properly- your odds of nothing happening while secured will appreciate the coin.

I'm kind of thankful to my grandfather and my dad- gave me something that I can hold for another 20 or so years and pass on- who knows when PCGS reaches 50 yrs in the biz the premiums for the rattlers will increase 20fold.

Picture a 89CC in a 64 rattler........wait picture 2 of em instead.....

asheland · January 15, 2008 12:37PM

Are the older green holders and rattlers from PCGS made with the same inert materials as the newest ones?

BigRed · January 15, 2008 8:27PM

It seems like when collectors talk of OGH upgrades they always talk of unc. or proof coins. How about circulated coins?Is it rarer for these to upgrade?

gyocomgd · January 16, 2008 1:44AM

Either way, the OGH impression is firmly in place. Rarely does a coin in an OGH go up for sale on eBay without the seller pointing it out. And from my experience, they absolutely command a premium--often a handsome one.

Connecticoin · January 16, 2008 1:59AM

<< Either way, the OGH impression is firmly in place. Rarely does a coin in an OGH go up for sale on eBay without the seller pointing it out. And from my experience, they absolutely command a premium--often a handsome one. >>

This ebay seller says EVERY SINGLE ONE of his Rattlers, Fattys, and OGHs are "Could be a Possible Upgrade!" Link

So it is not a myth, right?

Aegis3 · January 16, 2008 8:24AM

<< 

<< Either way, the OGH impression is firmly in place. Rarely does a coin in an OGH go up for sale on eBay without the seller pointing it out. And from my experience, they absolutely command a premium--often a handsome one. >>

This ebay seller says EVERY SINGLE ONE of his Rattlers, Fattys, and OGHs are "Could be a Possible Upgrade!" Link

So it is not a myth, right?

>>

Well, technically speaking, any coin with a slab grade less than 70 is to some extent a possible upgrade.

OGH....The myth

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