When an error isnt even an error, the Jefferson Lightly edged edge
Kaelasdad
Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭
Yes, I know, its all modern crud, but its still an issue. A little history first;
The Washington Dollar Missing Edge Lettering Error (MEL):
I got involved with the Washington dollar because it had a very cool error--it was missing an important part of the minting process, like the date, the mint mark, the mottos.
I can readily admit, thats an error.
When submitted to PCGS, they saw it was also an error and they were slabbed as mint errors--makes sense.
(there were also massive strike throughs obv and rev, and also some very nice die clashes-but apparantly these errors were not enough to classify as errors, since PCGS passed on recognizing them and simply recognized the missing edges--If they ever decide that strike through and die clashes are also significant errors --some coins had all 3-- some board members will be sitting on some awesome coins.)
The Adams Missing Edge and Doubled Edge Lettering errors
Now, on to the Adams with the missing edge again, and the doubled edge. Lets see--either the coins missed another mint process, or went back for seconds--both recognized again as errors--since going through the single time isnt an error, its a requirement, expected even.......
(Now on the doubled edges, NGC said there were only 2 varieties, the Overlapped and the Inverted, and although collectors lobbied PCGS to recognize that there were actually 3 varieties, the Inverted Position AB, and the overlapped Positions AA and BB, PCGS followed NCG's lead and just had them labeled as Overlapped and Inverted--collectors still ask for all 3 coins to collect the real set, but such is life.
Now, the Jefferson Lightly edged edge--Huh!?
Yup, there are people out there selling lightly lettered edges, as errors. Wait, they went through the minting process, once, they have a date, a mintmark, and a motto, but its light, ya know, like light, readable, but light. And some collectors are spending serious money on these.
I was looking, very closely, when the Jefferson's came out, looking for another mint error, and I saw these. Selling from 2 people, one in Connecticut, and one in Florida and I thought to myself, wow--they couldnt find real errors, so like in the very beginning, when people sold upside down lettering dollars as errors, they are selling any variable they can. And only 2 sellers--what are the odds that only 2 people found these, not the hundreds as in the past--unless most people who saw them raw said--"thats not an error, just a poorly struck example of a coin".
How many board members here sold upside down lettering coins as errors when that rush was on? Most, if not all, looked at it and said--thats not an error, its just upside down. Luckily PCGS didnt slab them as errors, but as simple "positions". I saw that as a way for PCGS to help collectors from being fleeced.
So--am I nuts? Are these errors? I dont see the error, I certainly dont see any value to them. How many times has someone looked at a Morgan or Peace dollar and said, "I cant tell if its AU or MS, it could just be a lightly struck coin."? You dont see folks jumping over themselves to grab it, people want either a nice fully struck coin, or a real error--not some coin that is neither one, but selling as an error.
The Presidential dollar coins have been all over the board, and misinformation on whats an error or not (upside down lettering), how common an error is (Washington MEL)or scarce (Adams MEL). These fiascos have touched and probably decimated 90% of the collectors out there who wanted to try collecting this set.
Anybody here spend more than $1 on an upside down lettering coin? Or over $400 on a raw Washington MEL, at least its still a real error--people have lost thousands on these moderns, and the Jefferson lightly edged edge is just another reason to walk away if it becomes anything more than just another $1 coin.
My 2 cents--Russ
The Washington Dollar Missing Edge Lettering Error (MEL):
I got involved with the Washington dollar because it had a very cool error--it was missing an important part of the minting process, like the date, the mint mark, the mottos.
I can readily admit, thats an error.
When submitted to PCGS, they saw it was also an error and they were slabbed as mint errors--makes sense.
(there were also massive strike throughs obv and rev, and also some very nice die clashes-but apparantly these errors were not enough to classify as errors, since PCGS passed on recognizing them and simply recognized the missing edges--If they ever decide that strike through and die clashes are also significant errors --some coins had all 3-- some board members will be sitting on some awesome coins.)
The Adams Missing Edge and Doubled Edge Lettering errors
Now, on to the Adams with the missing edge again, and the doubled edge. Lets see--either the coins missed another mint process, or went back for seconds--both recognized again as errors--since going through the single time isnt an error, its a requirement, expected even.......
(Now on the doubled edges, NGC said there were only 2 varieties, the Overlapped and the Inverted, and although collectors lobbied PCGS to recognize that there were actually 3 varieties, the Inverted Position AB, and the overlapped Positions AA and BB, PCGS followed NCG's lead and just had them labeled as Overlapped and Inverted--collectors still ask for all 3 coins to collect the real set, but such is life.
Now, the Jefferson Lightly edged edge--Huh!?
Yup, there are people out there selling lightly lettered edges, as errors. Wait, they went through the minting process, once, they have a date, a mintmark, and a motto, but its light, ya know, like light, readable, but light. And some collectors are spending serious money on these.
I was looking, very closely, when the Jefferson's came out, looking for another mint error, and I saw these. Selling from 2 people, one in Connecticut, and one in Florida and I thought to myself, wow--they couldnt find real errors, so like in the very beginning, when people sold upside down lettering dollars as errors, they are selling any variable they can. And only 2 sellers--what are the odds that only 2 people found these, not the hundreds as in the past--unless most people who saw them raw said--"thats not an error, just a poorly struck example of a coin".
How many board members here sold upside down lettering coins as errors when that rush was on? Most, if not all, looked at it and said--thats not an error, its just upside down. Luckily PCGS didnt slab them as errors, but as simple "positions". I saw that as a way for PCGS to help collectors from being fleeced.
So--am I nuts? Are these errors? I dont see the error, I certainly dont see any value to them. How many times has someone looked at a Morgan or Peace dollar and said, "I cant tell if its AU or MS, it could just be a lightly struck coin."? You dont see folks jumping over themselves to grab it, people want either a nice fully struck coin, or a real error--not some coin that is neither one, but selling as an error.
The Presidential dollar coins have been all over the board, and misinformation on whats an error or not (upside down lettering), how common an error is (Washington MEL)or scarce (Adams MEL). These fiascos have touched and probably decimated 90% of the collectors out there who wanted to try collecting this set.
Anybody here spend more than $1 on an upside down lettering coin? Or over $400 on a raw Washington MEL, at least its still a real error--people have lost thousands on these moderns, and the Jefferson lightly edged edge is just another reason to walk away if it becomes anything more than just another $1 coin.
My 2 cents--Russ
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Comments
I found a Jefferson with light edge too, but that is not really an error, so I spend it.
San Diego, CA
Also, the auctions of those coins by some sellers were very unusual with high bids from seemingly the same bidders, who hardly bought coins or were registered fairly recently
Wondercoin
<< <i>PCGS has been very conservative with its decision on what gets a special coin number as an error Presidential Dollar. For example, even the fabulous triple error major starburst, rimless with die clash Washington specimen did not get assigned a special coin number in the series (but clearly deserves one). Thus far, the errors have needed to be MAJOR to get a special coin number.
Wondercoin >>
I thought that was major enough, if not another #, at least put the die clash and struck thru on the description of the holder.
San Diego, CA
Without question!
Wondercoin
)
San Diego, CA
The partials I have seen are missing some letters.
I do not know what is the actual requirement to make a partial lettered dollar versus a weak edge lettering.
Maybe PCGS can chime in here to give a little guidance on the subject.
Gardnerville, NV
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So I actually have seen the FDI PCGS versions.
Like many, its for my registry sets.
If they didn't get in a holder with there own number I would have just put one or two in tube for fun only.
If you have a registry set and you do not like open slots...
I will say the presidential dollars are hard to keep up with since it is the first year and all...BUT WOW!
Over 20 coins needed in the first year, unless you want the basic set.
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions