Why are there so many shill bidders in State Treasurer unclaimed property eBay auctions?

tr8cer · September 15, 2007 5:58PM

I made an announcement a month back that Texas was about to auction off unclaimed property. Immediately several people replied saying shill bidder heaven. I wondered why? It isn't a personal auction. Employees in that department that need to cover their arses say they look good for to their superiors.

Auctions with shill bidders for the State Treasurer of Illinois:

1. This shows the bidding pages for a their past ten auctions2. Notice the same bidders for everyone including new eBay accounts and active accounts.Auction 1 Auction 2 Text Text

edited to fix broken link

tr8cer · September 15, 2007 6:04PM

Don't you hate it when you hit the post button instead of preview?

Here's the others:

Text Text Text Text Text Text

Now I didn't skim through and choose the ones that look like they have shill bid activity. I chose the last ten auctions in a row.

I will be back with the results of the shill bidders names and 3 of bids and # of auctions bid on for the State Treasurer of Illinois

tr8cer · September 15, 2007 6:56PM

Results from these 10 auctions:

1. 7 different bidders who have no prior purchases.2. 9 different bidders who bid on 3 or more of the 10 auctions. 6 on whom bid on 4 or more.3. From these 9 bidders they placed a total of 81 bids.4. Only 1 of these 9 bidders has any history of a coin purchases I'm sure if I went back further and looked at the other items the State Treasures dept sold I would find these same bidders and many more bidders with no prior purchases.

ozzyfan269 · September 16, 2007 12:20AM

Yes. I saw those auctions, but the way they were hyped by the media I knew they would be overbid by "genius speculators" who thought they would get a steal on a State sale. I knew to stay away from those like the plague. I like buying from collectors who are liquidating parts of their collections or select trustworthy dealers, and even then only PCGS or NGC. Usually I prefer sellers in the 50 to 500 100% positive feedback range.

fcloud · September 16, 2007 12:30AM

Maybe some of these bidders with (0) that didn't win just became users to try to pick up bargains, only to figure out many others had done the same thing.

coinsomniac · September 16, 2007 12:58AM

As I believe that shill bidding is a crime on Ebay, please make sure that your facts are correct before making such accusations.

notwilight · September 16, 2007 1:09AM

Since this auction got advertised lots of places it seems logical to me that there would be 0 feedback bidders. An easy conclusion based on the way your subject is worded is that you consider any new bidder or 0 feedback bidder a shiller. I don't know if that is really what you think or not. --Jerry

BlindedByEgo · September 16, 2007 1:11AM

<< As I believe that shill bidding is a crime on Ebay, please make sure that your facts are correct before making such accusations. >>

There is a wide gap between "against Ebay rules" and criminal behavior. There may be some sort of civil case for libel, but I wouldn't worry 'bout it. Truth is a great defense, and the stakes are pretty small.

PrivateCoinCollector · September 16, 2007 1:16AM

Cuff 'em Danno! 3-5 Shill bidding.

CappedBustDimes · September 16, 2007 1:28AM

I am assuming, like most state "unclaimed property" sellers, this one has no connection to the state of Illinois.

Note that the contact email is not government address and the contact information is identical to other similar/same sellers.

Springfield IL Drop And Sell

IL Treasurer's Unclaimed Property

SUPERIOR BUSINESS SOLUTIONS INC
1417 E Sangamon Ave (217) 535-0000
SUPERIOR BUSINESS SOLUTIONS INC

However, they (any of the above identities) could be working on contract with the state treasurer?
IL iBid

coinsomniac · September 16, 2007 1:32AM

<< Cuff 'em Danno! 3-5 Shill bidding. >>

The State of New York recenty heavily fined a dealer for shill bidding on Ebay (an art dealer I believe). These are rather serious accusations of a government entity, so it could be wise to be rather certain before accusing them of lawbreaking. Just my humble opinion. Text

tr8cer · September 16, 2007 6:11AM

Perhaps I should take back what I said saying there are shill bidders in this auction. I haven't been able to find the previous auction for . When I posted letting people know of some of the cool stuff Texas' unclaimed property department had going on I immediately got several responses saying that those auctions are full of shill bidders.

I do take back what I said and apologize to the state treasure's department of Illinois implying such activity is going on.

edited to add

When you believe there is shill bidding activity going on what are the signs that lead you to believe someone is shill bidding?

Pentimento · September 16, 2007 6:34AM

<< I am assuming, like most state "unclaimed property" sellers, this one has no connection to the state of Illinois.

Note that the contact email is not government address and the contact information is identical to other similar/same sellers.

Springfield IL Drop And Sell

IL Treasurer's Unclaimed Property

SUPERIOR BUSINESS SOLUTIONS INC
1417 E Sangamon Ave (217) 535-0000
SUPERIOR BUSINESS SOLUTIONS INC

However, they (any of the above identities) could be working on contract with the state treasurer?
IL iBid >>

This is the real deal. The state licensed the actual work out to Superior Business Solutions. contract permit. This seller's name is the same one that the state treasurer Alexi Giannoulias has mentioned dozens of times on local TV and radio. He has said repeatedly that most of this stuff is from safe deposit boxes, and that the state is trying to get higher bids than when they used to sell all this stuff in a tent at the state fair at auction.

coinsomniac · September 16, 2007 6:44AM

When you believe there is shill bidding activity going on what are the signs that lead you to believe someone is shill bidding?

It is very difficult to detect shill bidding. Generally those caught leave extensive evidence over many auctions and a long period of time.

I am quite sensitive to false accusations of shill bidding, as a forum member once made such allegations on this board, regarding my auctions. I did not pursue it legally as the cost would have been prohibitive and he claimed to be very ill from cancer at the time. I took a year off, and opened a new account here without an auction link. These boards are great at many things, but everyone thinks he is Sherlock Holmes and many of the charges are false and deceitful.

LindeDad · September 16, 2007 7:25AM

I took a year off, and opened a new account here without an auction link. These boards are great at many things, but everyone thinks he is Sherlock Holmes and many of the charges are false and deceitful.

So who's Alt are you?

Don't really have to allways be a detective.

Bmarkers · September 16, 2007 7:34AM

<< When you believe there is shill bidding activity going on what are the signs that lead you to believe someone is shill bidding? >>

Please see "fairtraderz" and "ontime" shill thread.

"ontime" was suspended for a month, not sure what happened to "fairtraderz".

Russ · September 16, 2007 7:42AM

Shill bidding is very common with these state unclaimed property auctions. Just watch TX and PA for a while.

Russ, NCNE

Cgb · September 16, 2007 8:15AM

I'd have to say it was because of all the bidders with 0 Feedback.

ozzyfan269 · September 16, 2007 8:27AM

I am sure shill bidding is rampant all across eBay. That is why i prefer to buy from the little guys.

dtkk49a · September 16, 2007 11:38AM

A while back, I emiled the eBay id for Texas and told them that allot of people think they schill thier auctions. They sent me a long email denying any wrong doing whatsoever.
They explained the reason we see allot of bidders with little or no feedback is because most of these people are trying to buy thier stuff back that was siezed by the state.

tr8cer · September 16, 2007 2:52PM

<< 

<< When you believe there is shill bidding activity going on what are the signs that lead you to believe someone is shill bidding? >>

Please see "fairtraderz" and "ontime" shill thread.

"ontime" was suspended for a month, not sure what happened to "fairtraderz". >>

I didn't realize the seriousness of the thread I posted. Who can I contact to have it deleted?

Why are there so many shill bidders in State Treasurer unclaimed property eBay auctions?

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