Type B Washington quarter populations

docg · August 3, 2007 9:15AM

Where would I find the POP numbers for type B Washies? I have looked in the POP book and online and can't find them. Any help?

ProofArtworkonCircs · August 3, 2007 3:46PM

It seems to me to be next to impossible.
I pay money for the PCGS POP numbers, but I need a coin number to get the POP. I have seen a PCGS type B offered, but it seems to be a rare beast indeed. I suspect very few have been graded by PCGS (attributed as type B, that is).

Quite often I see ANACS ones advertised. The POP report is free, but I can't get it to work.

Incidently type C PCGS number is 145423 and has a POP of 3.

BIGJAYVEE · August 3, 2007 9:34PM

Thanks for that PCGS number on the c-reverse you gave on a previous thread.I have one at PCGS right now.How did you find that number and where did you find it? POP 4 i hope.

ProofArtworkonCircs · August 4, 2007 12:16AM

I cheated. I looked at a auction photo and noted the coin number on the holder. It must have been either eBay or Heritage.
The problem with this approach is how rarely an attributed B shows up in a PCGS holder.
Another approach would be to submit one for grading and see what number they give you.
(The type C I referred to in my previous post is the 1964 - D silver quarter with clad reverse design.)

coinman420 · August 4, 2007 12:19AM

can you tell us what the differences are between type B and C? thanks

ProofArtworkonCircs · August 4, 2007 12:30AM

Here is a table I copied from a previous post which was how to tell an "A" from a "B". It also works for telling a "B" from a "C."
It is harder to tell a "C" from an "A". The "C" has centerlines in relief on the tailfeathers. There are other differences. Incidently clad "B" has those centerlines while the silver "B' doesn't.

The ES separation in STATES is greater
The top of the M of UNUM brackets IB of PLURIBUS just above it.
The leaf touching the arrowhead points now juts above them
The top and bottom arrowhead barbs are apparently missing (they are still there but overwhelmed by the field deeping there)
The stem end is parallel to the T of Quarter rather than angleing upward
The leaf by A of DOLLAR is connected by a solid bridge. The leaf on "A" is very faint and does not connect. "C" is stronger than "A", but still no comparison with "B"
.
There are more differences, but I think I hit most of the major ones.

ProofArtworkonCircs · August 4, 2007 1:48PM

I found out where I got the 1964 - D type C quarter PCGS coin number (145423) from. It was Teletrade auction 2332 lot 1656 Feb 25.

I also note TeleTrade auction number 2386 25 June had a PCGS 64 1957 Type B quarter which sold for $75. The coin number is 145024 and the current PCGS population is 10.

If anybody else has type B coin numbers, please let us know.

ProofArtworkonCircs · August 4, 2007 1:55PM

I just reread my post on how to tell an "A" from a "B" and now realize it is not clear as to which type my list of pickup points refer to.
My list of pickup points is describing a type B as versus type A or type C.

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 7, 2007 1:50PM

I have found two more PCGS coin numbers for Type B quarters. Here is the total info I have so far.

1956 B 145647 Pop 6 with 2 each MS 64, 65, 66.
1957 B 145024 Pop 23 with MS 64 - 4; MS 65 - 4; MS 66 - 10 and MS 67 - 4.
1963 B 146071 Pop 139 with MS 64 - 80; MS 65 - 10 and MS 66 - 2.
1964-D C 145423 Pop 5 with 1 each in MS 64,65.

crito · September 8, 2007 7:14AM

I picked a 1960 type B reverse out of a silver bag recently. According to Feigenbaum's book on the series it's common for Denver but not Philadelphia business strikes. Might send it to PCGS when I renew, so TTT this thread.

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 8, 2007 3:45PM

I have never seen Feigenbaum's book. Also I have never seen a silver D mint B. I have learned never to say "never", but I really doubt that they exist. Some of us have been searching for them since the days of silver only quarters. I have seen several each of 1969 D, 1970 D, 1971 D and 1972 D B's. Many reference books have errors in them. The Cherrypicker's guide doesn't believe in my clad D B quarters.
Many (but certainly not all) 1960 mint sets had Philly type B quarters in them. Most 1959 mint sets had them.

bushmaster8 · September 8, 2007 11:40PM

Type A

Type B

Windycity · September 9, 2007 3:28AM

I'm not certain type B is as rare as believed. The type B or type II proof reverse can be found in rolls of Washingtons from 1956-1963. I have 50 or more picked from rolls in the past two years.

bushmaster8 · September 9, 2007 4:58AM

How many of those are 1956's Pat?

In my experience the 56 is truly scarce.

LeeG · September 9, 2007 5:15AM

"The 1956-1964 Mulings of Proof Washington Quarter Reverses with Business Strike Obverses: The Creation of the Type B Reverse."

"The Proof reverse design of that era differs from that of the business strikes in a number of striking ways. First, the Proof lettering is more sharply impressed and has flat tables and squared corners and edges. Next, the eagle exhibits both greater detail and relief and appears slightly thinner on Proofs, as compared with business strike examples. Additionally, a leaf extends above the uppermost arrowhead point on Proof reverses. Further, on many specimens some degree of a mirrored field remains evident. Finally, and to readily distinguish a Proof die reverse, the E and S of States are widely separated. This contrasts with business strike specimens where the letters virtually touch one another."

"Presently, few numismatists recognize the existence and significance of the Type B Reverse mulings of the Washington Quarter series. This has kept their prices at low levels. However, as more people become aware of these little known and incredible coins, the demand for them is likely destined to surge as with their prices.

This one may be a "Type B"?

Windycity · September 9, 2007 5:49AM

Greg,

You're right about the 56's... most are 58-64 and a few 57's... not certain I have a 1956 in the group of 100+ coins.

Pat

quarterjack · September 9, 2007 5:58AM

I've yet to find a 56, but no one ever wants to pay a premium for TY. B's at least that's been my experience so far.

Dave

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 9, 2007 3:22PM

Lee's 1957 looks like a type A to me. The clincher is the sharp barb on the top arrowhead. Type B apparently does not have the barb, but it is there. It is overwhelmed by the deepness of the field next to it. I believe type B was made from a type A hub which then had metal carved away from it to give sharper appearing relief to the design. A similiar thing was done on the clad quarters for most of the 1968S proof production. Only this time they got all of that barb. Then this artwork was used on a few 1969 D and 1970 P & D quarters. Most 1970 D in mint sets are this type.

1956 type B's are very scarce but so are the clad D mint ones. I think only two dies were used for B circulation strikes in 1956. Most show some weakness especially in the leaf above T of QUARTER sandwiched in between the stem ends. This leaf is a tad longer on B's.

LeeG · September 9, 2007 10:17PM

This one sure looks like Type B:

emzee · September 9, 2007 10:39PM

I can confirm existence of type B reverses for all dates 1956-1964. I have never personally seen a 1956. 1958 is a scarce date for B reverse.

A couple of observations:

I have noticed that a substantial percentage of 1957 mint set pieces have B reverse and these can be found in high grade with nice color.

The mint was using discarded/"worn" proof dies to produce business strike coins from 1956-1964 as an economy move. Consequently, in addition to coins made with B reverse dies, there are also business strike coins made using proof obverse dies. The proof obverse dies would produce PL coins, at least for a while, but coins struck with these dies cannot otherwise be distinguished from non-proof die coins. Many of the coins I have seen with B reverses have PL obverses as well, and were undoubtedly made using both proof obverse and reverse dies.

Michael

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 10, 2007 12:26AM

Lee,

No question that the second picture is a type B.

Was the first one a test?

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 10, 2007 3:36PM

Here is a table constructed in another thread. Sorry, most of the spaces vanished.

type b Reverse: ms64 65 66 67 total notes
1956 P = 145647 3 2 2 7 was 6 when I looked yesterday
1957 P = 145024 4 6 11 4 26 was 23 yesterday
1958 P = 146067 not available
1959 P = 146068 8 3 2 13
1960 P = 145643 not available
1961 P = 146069 6 4 10
1962 P = 146070 3 3 1 1
1963 P = 146071 80 10 2 139
1964 P = 145654 5 2 1 8

TYPE C Reverse:
1964 D = 145423 5 1 1 11 was 5 yesterday

bushmaster8 · September 10, 2007 8:28PM

I have an order in with 3 1957's. Looks like they are done.

docg · September 11, 2007 3:47AM

I have 4 1960 that are in PCGS MS66 slabs that I intend to submit to get the "type B reverse". I also have several other MS66 type B dates to send in. I have one 1962 raw (MS65), it looks like that is a tougher date. If anyone is interested in raw type B Washies, let me know, I have dozens.

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 11, 2007 8:24AM

Docg,

In your hoard of raw Type B Washingtons, do you have any clad B's?

docg · September 11, 2007 11:40AM

Honestly, I don't know. I will have to look through all of the denver mint rolls from 69-72 I have.

cladking · September 11, 2007 12:18PM

I see Krause is listing prices for most of the silver coins now.

...very interesting.

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 24, 2007 2:47PM

I will vouch for these numbers as amended as correct. I have used them to find population reports for each and every one.
A previous post in another thread had the numbers garbled for 1958 and 1960. This explains why the population reports were not available.
1958 has a total of 15 with the highest being 4 MS64, 9 MS65 and 1 MS66. PCGS coin number is 146067
1960 has a total of 13 with the highest being 4 MS64, 3 MS65 and 6 MS66. PCGS coin number is 145643
I assume the populations are low due to PCGS only grading these for a short time now.
lI have found customer service of no help in obtaining numbers. Perhaps they would verify one if you had it, but I don't think they could help if it was off.

ProofArtworkonCircs · September 24, 2007 3:05PM

The garbling was all my fault and only in my notes. My apologies for any confusion I caused.

SUMORADA · November 27, 2007 1:12AM

Found a couple of these..........................1958 "B" reverse

bronze6827 · November 27, 2007 10:12AM

I only have one, myself. A BU 1960 Philadelphia that I picked up for $2.50 at a coin show earlier this year. It was in a very old, worn 2" cardboard holder in a rubbermaid bin with other trinkets. The luster caught my eye, and then I saw it was very mark free as well. It looks a solid MS65.

I never considered these very scarce, so I don't bother looking for them specifically.

SUMORADA · December 3, 2007 12:51AM

This came in the mail today.......1956 "B" Rev. The rev. is a little off center and looks weakly struck !

lkrarecoins · December 3, 2007 1:46AM

I am reposting this one from a couple of weeks ago, for you statistician types...

In a lot of approx. 290 Washies:

1-1957 Washie B Reverse ($50 Coin)
1-1960 Washie B Reverse ($20 Coin)
2-1962 Washie B Reverses ($75 each in MS...mine are XF/AU's)
1-1963 Washie B Reverse ($75 in MS....mine is AU)
1-1964 Washie B Reverse ($50 each in AU55

Type2 · January 6, 2008 3:44AM

TTT.

Windycity · January 6, 2008 7:32AM

Just checked a few PCGS graded nicely toned Washingtons I have collected over the years and found two nicely toned 1957 coins... one type 1, one type 2. Here's a closeup of both...

Type B Washington quarter populations

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