One of my pastimes is playing blackjack. Of all the knowledge I have garnered about the game over the years probably the most important factor is the house edge. The thrill and enjoyment comes from sometimes beating the game with the full knowledge and understanding that the odds are against me. I have made some great scores and have also been beaten like a pinata. I'm comfortable in my ability to expose myself to a gamble where I have some chance of winning and can leave when things don't go my way. I'm not at all comfortable that I can do the same thing in this business where the goal posts keep shifting and the scammers are using increasingly devious skills to trap the unwary. With all our complaints about PCGS and NGC they do provide some semblance of order and a reasonable set of standards. The doctors and scammers have to get better and better to suceed in fooling them. With the third world slabs I think we're playing in a game where the house is crooked and their edge is insurmountabe on a sustaining basis. The bottom line is, no matter if like the lottery we win now and then, every time we buy these junk slabs we help to keeps these yahoos in business. Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
The bottom line is, no matter if like the lottery we win now and then, every time we buy these junk slabs we help to keeps these yahoos in business.
True, which is part of the reason I don't submit to third world graders.
However, in my case, I didn't buy the slab. I bought the coin and discarded the slab. I lost this bet because I made a mental blunder, but I will continue to look for opportunities wherever I might find them.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It's probably a done deal especially now that the coin has been removed from the holder. Have you tried to negotiate a buy back or possibly a trade for something else?
<< <i>It's probably a done deal especially now that the coin has been removed from the holder. Have you tried to negotiate a buy back or possibly a trade for something else? >>
No, dealers routinely screw each other over in such fashion. It's wholesale market acceptable.
It's probably a done deal especially now that the coin has been removed from the holder. Have you tried to negotiate a buy back or possibly a trade for something else?
Yes, it's a done deal. No, I have not tried to negotiate a buyback, nor will I. Whether or not the seller knew about the damage, I simply can't imagine him paying anything close to the selling price to get it back. Unless, maybe, I get PCI to put it back in a holder first. But I won't do that.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I just recently caught myself before sending in a PCI MS-62 1899-S $5 gold. The surfaces looked good to me and far less "baggie" than similarly graded PCGS and NGC pieces. Admittedly, I'm no gold expert...that being said, I had presence of mind to take several images at various angles and post them ATS. One of the forum members caught what he thought was hairlines on the reverse field. It took me about 45 minutes [for my untrained eye] to pick up on it...but sure enough...they were there. This coin would have definitely bagged for improper cleaning had I sent it in. This story has a bit better of an ending though. I got most of my money back in trade on an already NGC MS-62 graded 1895 $5 gold to start the type set.
My take home message[s]... "If it's too good to be true........." I saw dollar signs! I thought this might be a potential upgrade to MS63 but as others have so poigniantly illustrated, if you're going to play crack-out, you'de better be prepared to take some lumps.
BEWARE PCI HOLDERS!!!! I've purchased two so far. The first was an EF45 graded 1856 Large Cent. My intent on this piece from the start was to crack it out and keep it raw for my Large Cent date set...which I did. The reverse appeared softly struck and the obverse looked about VF35. Since I got this piece for VF money I thought it was an OK deal. What I would have like to have know prior to purchase was about the carbon spots on the reverse... very small and not obtrusive...but nonetheless... The second was the piece described above.
Leo
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Because the coin was in a slab rather than raw, I assume that you will continue to do business with the selling dealer (in other words, the dealer selling the coin cannot be blamed)?
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
The solution would be slabs that can see the whole coin. This has STARTED to come about with the realization of the importance of seeing the rim. I.E. lettered edges (or plain edges) and their significance like the 1907 Ultra High Reliefs.
PCGS has been getting very timid with their grading. There is so much money to be made with an updrade, crossover, etc. Seems to this game will run out of gas once the same coins have all been submitted so many times over, or have reached a grade no one would feel bad leaving as is!!
When all esle fails Andy, have you-know-who submit it for you. Then it will get into PCGS.
I can't see why nearly everyone thinks PCGS is without major faults. I have a slabbed Swedish 50 Ore which has been labeled by PCGS as Norway, which was purchased entirely for its goof ball labeling.
Can I sell it as a PCGS error?
My point is, every grading service is going to make mistakes.
My point is not that third world slabbers are worth a damn.
My Norwegian Swedish coin thingy is kind of growing on me though.
Comments
I can't help but wonder if "test cut damage" is part of ICG's vocabulary.
I have made some great scores and have also been beaten like a pinata.
I'm comfortable in my ability to expose myself to a gamble where I have some chance of winning and can leave when things don't go my way.
I'm not at all comfortable that I can do the same thing in this business where the goal posts keep shifting and the scammers are using increasingly devious skills to trap the unwary.
With all our complaints about PCGS and NGC they do provide some semblance of order and a reasonable set of standards. The doctors and scammers have to get better and better to suceed in fooling them.
With the third world slabs I think we're playing in a game where the house is crooked and their edge is insurmountabe on a sustaining basis.
The bottom line is, no matter if like the lottery we win now and then, every time we buy these junk slabs we help to keeps these yahoos in business. Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
<< <i>I can't help but wonder if "test cut damage" is part of ICG's vocabulary. >>
What does ICG have to do with coin which was slabbed by PCI?
True, which is part of the reason I don't submit to third world graders.
However, in my case, I didn't buy the slab. I bought the coin and discarded the slab. I lost this bet because I made a mental blunder, but I will continue to look for opportunities wherever I might find them.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
hey, just asking!
Yes. It can be filed down, as I explained above, or it can be repaired by filling the gap with new metal.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>It's probably a done deal especially now that the coin has been removed from the holder. Have you tried to negotiate a buy back or possibly a trade for something else? >>
No, dealers routinely screw each other over in such fashion. It's wholesale market acceptable.
Yes, it's a done deal. No, I have not tried to negotiate a buyback, nor will I. Whether or not the seller knew about the damage, I simply can't imagine him paying anything close to the selling price to get it back. Unless, maybe, I get PCI to put it back in a holder first. But I won't do that.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I just recently caught myself before sending in a PCI MS-62 1899-S $5 gold. The surfaces looked good to me and far less "baggie" than similarly graded PCGS and NGC pieces. Admittedly, I'm no gold expert...that being said, I had presence of mind to take several images at various angles and post them ATS. One of the forum members caught what he thought was hairlines on the reverse field. It took me about 45 minutes [for my untrained eye] to pick up on it...but sure enough...they were there. This coin would have definitely bagged for improper cleaning had I sent it in. This story has a bit better of an ending though. I got most of my money back in trade on an already NGC MS-62 graded 1895 $5 gold to start the type set.
My take home message[s]... "If it's too good to be true........." I saw dollar signs! I thought this might be a potential upgrade to MS63 but as others have so poigniantly illustrated, if you're going to play crack-out, you'de better be prepared to take some lumps.
BEWARE PCI HOLDERS!!!! I've purchased two so far. The first was an EF45 graded 1856 Large Cent. My intent on this piece from the start was to crack it out and keep it raw for my Large Cent date set...which I did. The reverse appeared softly struck and the obverse looked about VF35. Since I got this piece for VF money I thought it was an OK deal. What I would have like to have know prior to purchase was about the carbon spots on the reverse... very small and not obtrusive...but nonetheless... The second was the piece described above.
Leo
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
mrE is being totally honest and knows how the game is played.
good thread.
Because the coin was in a slab rather than raw, I assume that you will continue to do business with the selling dealer (in other words, the dealer selling the coin cannot be blamed)?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
PCGS has been getting very timid with their grading. There is so much money to be made with an updrade, crossover, etc. Seems to this game will run out of gas once the same coins have all been submitted so many times over, or have reached a grade no one would feel bad leaving as is!!
When all esle fails Andy, have you-know-who submit it for you. Then it will get into PCGS.
Can I sell it as a PCGS error?
My point is, every grading service is going to make mistakes.
My point is not that third world slabbers are worth a damn.
My Norwegian Swedish coin thingy is kind of growing on me though.
(1875 50 Ore,