Ebay Situation - Advice?

swest · August 22, 2007 12:53AM

Hi,

I bought a decently expensive coin, basically a ASE NGC 70 Proof. Anyway, it was over $500 and they guy offered to send it COD. I was determined to look at the coin before I accepted delivery of it. Sure enough it had a milk spot. It wasn't a huge one but clearly visible and the seller had to know. Yet he advertised the coin as clean, perfect, etc..

Anyway, I politely refused shipment and promptly emailed the guy. He didn't freak out, said he understood, and it wasn't a problem. I thought GREAT!

However, then he shoots me an email about paying for the shipping. Now part of me thinks perhaps I should split the shipping with him and part of me thinks he mis-advertised and why I should pay anything? I am interested in keeping good feedback and always working with someone. So I am thinking about offering to split the shipping with him.

I am not sure if Fedex is going to charge him more to return the item back to him, or if it will stay with the original shipping fee.

What are you thoughts on my responsibility for sharing/paying the shipping fee? I am just wondering if there is a unwritten rule on this one.

Swest

FLBuffaloHunter · August 22, 2007 12:56AM

Before bidding on the item, I would have specifically asked the seller if the coin had any spots or hazing. Since you are not paying for the return shipping of the coin, splitting the shipping would be resonable since you neglected to ask.

ScarsdaleCoin · August 22, 2007 1:06AM

link us up to the auction so we can see how it was posted....then we can make better comments

RMart · August 22, 2007 1:21AM

How did you inspect the item without paying the COD charge in the first place?

swest · August 22, 2007 1:25AM

Check out this assdart's email he just sent me. I have kept things friendly and was planning on splitting the shipping fees. He sent the below this morning:

"THIS COIN IS GRADED BY NGC AND GUARANTEED BY NGC.I DO NOT HAVE A RETURN POLICY.I WAS NICE TO SEND IT COD,AND YOU ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT.TO AVOID UNPAID ITEM DESPUTE,AND BEFORE I'LL CANCEL THE TRANSACTION,I EXPECT YOU TO PAY $43.80 FOR FEES THAT I'LL NOT GET BACK. SHIPPING $35 AND EBAY INSERT VALUE FEE $4.80."

Now, what I find funny is he offers COD in his auction, so he is nice to everyone and he refused to take Paypal which I would of done immediately. So I had to get a PO Money Order. I responded to his email in a less than friendly manner. I clearly pointed out that his auction stated the coin was without any rust or marks (which oddly enough, was the only thing not in caps on his auction).

Auction description (sorry he uses caps)

Very Rare Only 586 coins graded perfect 70 in the WORLD. INVEST IN RARE COIN WHEN THE MARKET IS DOWN OR IDLE...AND HERE IS A GREAT OFFER... GREAT LOOKING COIN,A VERY RARE, PERFECT PROOF 1986-S AMERICAN SILVER DOLLAR,GRADED BY ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED IN THE BUSINESS NGC. NGC PF 70 ULTRA CAMEO.Beautiful perfect coins without any rust or marks. RARE, RARE, VERY RARE... THIS COIN IS LISTED ON THE PCGS PRICE GUIDE AT TOTAL VALUE OF $2600.GREAT INVESTMENT FOR COLLECTORS DO NOT MISS THAT... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ PAYMENT ACCEPTED BY PERSONAL CHECK,MONEY ORDER,CREDIT CARD CHECKS OR BANK WIRE FOR FAST DELIVERY SERVICE... buyer pay exact usps INSURED registered SHIPPING IN THE U.S, about $16.00. ... GREAT QUALITY COINS AND SERVICE OFFERED.... CONTACT US WITH QUETIONS, REQUEST FOR MORE PICTURES or offers....ELLIOT53@YAHOO.COM $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I HAD MY BAD LUCK WITH CROOKS ON EBAY.... IF FOR SOME REASONE YOU DO NOT FEEL SAFE BIDDING ON MY ITEMS. I'LL BE HAPPY TO SEND THE ITEM C O D,CASH ON DELIVERY. IF REQUESTED AND PREFERED COD,MAKE POSTAL MONEY ORDER READY TO PU BY THE MAIL PERSON WHEN ITEM DELIVERED, FOR THE AUCTION PRICE+YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY EXTRA $35 FOR COD CHARGES BY FEDERAL EXPRESS

ziggy29 · August 22, 2007 1:28AM

<< Check out this assdart's email he just sent me. I have kept things friendly and was planning on splitting the shipping fees. He sent the below this morning:

"THIS COIN IS GRADED BY NGC AND GUARANTEED BY NGC.I DO NOT HAVE A RETURN POLICY..." >>

This is why I won't bid on anything without an explicit return policy.

Since you're asking for "advice" in this thread, that's the advice I'd give: avoid auctions with no return policy (unless, perhaps, they are low-value items that you can get with a low-ball bid and are willing to take the chance on eating a bad coin if it's not what you hoped for). In this case, I'd pay the shipping and wash my hands of it, keeping this experience in mind as a "lesson learned."

zzzz · August 22, 2007 1:29AM

pay him the shipping back ... no different than if you had a dealer send you a coin to inspect and refused the coin

swest · August 22, 2007 1:29AM

<< pay him the shipping back ... no different than if you had a dealer send you a coin to inspect and refused the coin >>

Even if he misadvertised it? Clearly?

I am not trying to be cheap and as I sell a lot on Ebay, I respect other sellers. This guys just really rubbed me wrong with his attitude.

Swest

Bmarkers · August 22, 2007 1:31AM

You're returning a coin because you don't like it. Smart. You don't like it, get your money back.

You should pay the return shipping cost with insurance and signature required. This protects you. It's worth a few bucks to return a coin you don't like.

Get off your high horse and pay the shipping!

swest · August 22, 2007 1:37AM

It is not the high horse (thanks btw-Lol) it is his fricking attitude and the way he did this. I think I should at least split the shipping with him. Hell, I don't even mind paying the shipping if he wasn't acting as a jerk and trying to threaten me. A bad feedback exchange would hurt him just as much.

So I posted here trying to find the right thing to do in spite of how this moron has ticked me off. Grrr...sounds like you all think I should pay the full shipping even though he advertised wrongly, most likely with intent.

You are right, I did return a coin and that is worth something to me as well.

Scavenger · August 22, 2007 1:44AM

Why is the shipping $35.00? I can overnight a package with insurance, tracking and signature confirmation for less.

au58 · August 22, 2007 1:49AM

An auction is just that, with terms and conditions as specified.
COD is a shipping and payment methodology. It does not make an auction an approval sale.

FLBuffaloHunter · August 22, 2007 1:55AM

The seller should have disclosed the coin was spotted or at the very least, shown clear pictures of the coin. The fact that it was NGC certified is his problem not yours. Obviously you bid on a NGC PR70 and what you received was a spotted PR70, which no longer qualifies as a 70. That is his problem to take up with NGC, not yours and you have every right to return the item for a full refund as the item was not as described or shown. This is the very reson I do not bid on auction that won't accept PayPal. Too many sellers trying to unload their crap on an unsuspecting bidder. That being said as you did not pay for the shipping back to him, I thought offering to pay half of the shipping would have been resonable given the circumstances of the overnight and COD charges. I would not worry about the unpaid item dispute. In fact, I would tell him you are going to alert eBay as to his bait and switch tactics.

TomB · August 22, 2007 1:56AM

His auction states that you have to pay an additional $35 for COD shipping-

"IF FOR SOME REASONE YOU DO NOT FEEL SAFE BIDDING ON MY ITEMS. I'LL BE HAPPY TO SEND THE ITEM C O D,CASH ON DELIVERY. IF REQUESTED AND PREFERED COD,MAKE POSTAL MONEY ORDER READY TO PU BY THE MAIL PERSON WHEN ITEM DELIVERED, FOR THE AUCTION PRICE+YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY EXTRA $35 FOR COD CHARGES BY FEDERAL EXPRESS"

IrishMike · August 22, 2007 2:01AM

You stated in your first post that you wanted to look at it first and he states in his ad that you have to pay the shipping costs if sent C.O.D. Now he was wrong in his description, but you are wrong if you don't agree to pay the shipping. Two wrongs don't make it right.

19Lyds · August 22, 2007 2:02AM

My advice: Read AND understand the entire auction before bidding. As YOU posted, the seller clearly stated:

"IF REQUESTED AND PREFERED COD,MAKE POSTAL MONEY ORDER READY TO PU BY THE MAIL PERSON WHEN ITEM DELIVERED, FOR THE AUCTION PRICE+YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY EXTRA $35 FOR COD CHARGES BY FEDERAL EXPRESS "

Now, send him his money and close this one out.

Bmarkers · August 22, 2007 2:03AM

I think this thread is going to turn ugly.

swest · August 22, 2007 2:09AM

I should make it clear that I always intended to pay at least half the shipping.

But based on the feedback here, I will pay the $35.00. Just keep in mind while his auction DID say $35 shipping, it also DID say mark free coin.

But with that said, I sent back the coin, so I take care of that and I will pay th $35 but I am NOT going to pay for any listing fees as he requested.

Thanks for your thoughts and I don't think this thread will turn ugly

.

Swest

UncleJoe · August 22, 2007 2:17AM

The only way to get good valid opinions on this IMO is for you to link the auction so that the auction can be viewed first-hand.

Joe.

Russ · August 22, 2007 2:20AM

My advice is never buy from sellers with a broken caps lock key.

Russ, NCNE

Preussen · August 22, 2007 2:21AM

<< How did you inspect the item without paying the COD charge in the first place? >>

Great question; if it has been answered, I've missed it

-Preussen

19Lyds · August 22, 2007 2:29AM

The listing fee's is another story as they are not refunded by EBay if both parties agree to NOT complete the transaction. However, his Final Value fees are refunded.

Get a break down on the fee's he is wanted refunded. If Final Value fee's are in the mix, don't send those since he'd be getting double payment. The listing fee's are just a part of doing business IMO and its something you'll have to negotiate with the seller.

MrBeast · August 22, 2007 2:32AM

<< My advice is never buy from sellers with a broken caps lock key.

Russ, NCNE >>

pharmer · August 22, 2007 2:37AM

you two deserve each other

StrikeOutXXX · August 22, 2007 2:39AM

<< 

<< How did you inspect the item without paying the COD charge in the first place? >>

Great question; if it has been answered, I've missed it

-Preussen >>

I have to wonder this myself, the few times I had COD, the postman/woman wouldn't let it out of their vice grips until I handed over the Money Order. There was no open and see if I wanted to pay the COD item. But... the last COD was about 10 years ago, so maybe things have changed?

Longacre · August 22, 2007 2:47AM

I would have asked about the return policy up front. Personally I would just pay the fee, and make it a point to be clear on the issues before you bid on a coin in the future.

swest · August 22, 2007 9:54AM

<< you two deserve each other >>

I am not sure why I would deserve this comment at all. I am in good standing on Ebay and have had great transactions with people on here. I have never ripped anyone off and I was clearly shipped a bad coin. Where on earth do you get off on such a lame comment? Jump in a pond with cement sneakers.

Update: After I responded to his email, he shot back a much nicer one and I did also. So we have worked it out and I am going to pay the full shipping fee on it. He is happy with that and everything is in great shape. Thanks for the advice here. I think I got rubbed the wrong way because I was really excited about the coin and then dissappointed. On top of that, the emails he sent continued to rub me wrong.

To answer the COD, packaging question, the guy just handed me the package and I told him I wanted to make sure everything was good before I signed. He just told me to go ahead and I made sure I kept everything in front of him. I honestly haven't done COD shipping before this and would not have in this case if he offered Paypal. I immediately saw a decent milk spot on the obverse and the beginnings of a couple more on the reverse. A big part of me feels strongly that the seller knew about them and thus doesn't like paypal for a reason. However, he is being good about the return so I can't complain.

GrumpyEd · August 22, 2007 10:27AM

<< To answer the COD, packaging question, the guy just handed me the package and I told him I wanted to make sure everything was good before I signed. He just told me to go ahead and I made sure I kept everything in front of him. I honestly haven't done COD shipping before this and would not have in this case if he offered Paypal. I immediately saw a decent milk spot on the obverse and the beginnings of a couple more on the reverse. A big part of me feels strongly that the seller knew about them and thus doesn't like paypal for a reason. However, he is being good about the return so I can't complain. >>

I was expecting they wouldn't let you open it before giving the payment.

This method seems good for buying high dollar coins, all you can loose is the shipping fee. Hmmmm!

swest · August 22, 2007 10:30AM

Maybe I got a new guy. All I did was ask and he said go ahead. I guess this is not a normal thing for COD?

I figured whats to stop someone from sending me a penny or something and said I wanted to confirm it.

Swest

BlindedByEgo · August 22, 2007 10:49AM

Pay him a fair amount for his out-of-pocket expenses and don't buy from him again. Avoid sellers with caps lock issues - they're generally pesados anyway. And don't waste your money on NGC PF70 or MS70 coins - buy PCGS, baby!

coinman420 · August 22, 2007 10:58AM

<< Pay him a fair amount for his out-of-pocket expenses and don't buy from him again. Avoid sellers with caps lock issues - they're generally pesados anyway. And don't waste your money on NGC PF70 or MS70 coins - buy PCGS, baby! >>

take all the above advice plus let me add that when you see $35 shipping on a single coin RUN away as fast as you can.

pharmer · August 22, 2007 11:02AM

<< 

<< you two deserve each other >>

I am not sure why I would deserve this comment at all.

Because you got to look at a $500 plus coin by some miracle (no one gets to open COD's and then decide) and didn't have to pay for it, and got out of the deal. And THEN you said:

"Now part of me thinks perhaps I should split the shipping"

Ya think?

He was a jerk, and you were being a jerk. Thus, you deserve each other. Capiche?

RBinTex · August 22, 2007 11:14AM

FedEx COMPLETELY violated their policy when they allowed you to open the package BEFORE they collected the money from you. Consider yourself lucky!!!

I assume the seller requested secured funds - i.e. a money order or cashiers check.

You should consider yourself lucky you had such an honest and accomodating shipper.

Splitting the shipping is MORE than fair.

Of course the fees he mentioned that he "won't get back" are probably overstated if he is including the final value fee. Only his listing fee is gone forever into eBay's coffers.

30AnvZ28 · August 22, 2007 11:32AM

I dont see what the big deal is with opening the package prior to COD. The UPS guy here lets us do it all the time, and has even left the packages without the "C" part of COD, and even signed for some and left them and picked up the check later (in instances where I am not here). Depending on what I have ordered, I inspect EVERY package prior to writing the check to cover the COD... and refuse about 30% of what I receive. This isnt coin related... but its still the same idea.

19Lyds · August 22, 2007 12:09PM

<< 

<< Pay him a fair amount for his out-of-pocket expenses and don't buy from him again. Avoid sellers with caps lock issues - they're generally pesados anyway. And don't waste your money on NGC PF70 or MS70 coins - buy PCGS, baby! >>

take all the above advice plus let me add that when you see $35 shipping on a single coin RUN away as fast as you can.

>>

The $35 shipping was only if the buyer wanted COD which always costs more.

swest · August 22, 2007 1:13PM

The $35 was for the option of fedex and I was fine with it. I fully intended to inspect it and never realized that was unusual. Like I said, I am completely new to COD stuff. I always usually pay before shipping.

As for the negative comment, Pharmer, I understand a little bit but still think you were out of line. This is not a normal thing for me and I came on here just to get advice so I handled it and was guided by people who know more. I stated my thoughts but looked for advice on the issue and have taken it. So, yes I understand, but you were still out of line as far I am concerned. Your point of reference is not mine and I came here to learn the best action I could take. How am I supposed to know how to handle a new situation? Instead of being a jerk, I explained my thoughts and ASKED. You just popped in a personal and negative opinion not considering the entire intent of this post. That is BS as far as I am concerned.

Thanks again for the guidance. I hate ALL caps and it bother me. I think it is funny how stuff like that sends up red flags. BTW the seller will get his final value fees back of course, but just not the listing fees and I think that is fair since his listing was inaccurate.

Swest

Ebay Situation - Advice?

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