I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also.
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers.
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers. >>
What issues with the first round?
I don't see any issues, if you logged on, you got the coins. It took me 2 minutes at 1PM to order all my coins.
<< <i>Seems like this limit will be applied for the First Week of sales only. After the first week, the limit might be lifted. >>
This is the best option, IMO. Everyone who wants one at issue price should have a reasonable time window in which to buy it, after which time I think all limits should be lifted or significantly raised. Anyone who complains that they couldn't get one during a week-long window is crying to deaf ears.
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers. >>
What issues with the first round?
I don't see any issues, if you logged on, you got the coins. It took me 2 minutes at 1PM to order all my coins. >>
Not an "issue" to me but several people decried the quick sellout and number of coins allowed per order(Someone posted a letter sent to Mint Director in another thread, numerous CW editorials, letter to Congressmen ie.). You snooze you lose in my book but The Mint got the picture and has changed the limits. Pure and simple, collector outcries led to this change in my opinion. Again, good for the collector bad for the flippers!!
Well, I guess I went from 25 to 6. The great thing is that it's the dealer's after market that will push this issue through the roof, unlike the flippers creating artifical scarcity in the initial after market, then a crash. The after market on this one should be more sustained, I think. And with the pull of shop-at-home and big-time dealers and their buying sources being cut by 80%, that may even drive the coins significantly higher than the first two issues... after the sell out.
I agree it will make the flipping even more lucrative. I see a lot of P.O. boxes being opened up and credit card billing addresses changed to these P.O. Boxes.
At least the US Mint announced the change in buying limits in advance. There were several past situations where the order limits were changed after the fact (2001 Buffalo $1, 1999 Silver Proof Set, etc) and the Mint retroactively applied the limits.
I think the net effect will be that the Jefferson coin will be very valuable, not only for its design but also because it will be widely distributed with few big hoards. I plan to buy one of each.
<< <i>I agree it will make the flipping even more lucrative. I see a lot of P.O. boxes being opened up and credit card billing addresses changed to these P.O. Boxes. >>
Just curious. With the Mint's automatic upgrade to FedEX on orders over $300(?) how do you get your order delivered to a PO box?
Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
The US Mint sends the coin via registered parcel post. It takes longer. I have a PO Box and it takes almost a week to get the coin after the Mint notifies me.
<< <i>I agree it will make the flipping even more lucrative. I see a lot of P.O. boxes being opened up and credit card billing addresses changed to these P.O. Boxes. >>
Is the CC billing address checked or the delivery address? Always wondered how they sifted through things to detect multiple orders as I am sure others are also at this point but won't admit it
<< <i>The US Mint sends the coin via registered parcel post. It takes longer. I have a PO Box and it takes almost a week to get the coin after the Mint notifies me. >>
Os is that your automatic upgrade if you have a PO box? Registered Parcel Post? Is that described on their website? Thanks
Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
With 1 per Option per Household, I believe a buyer can have each coin shipped to different address and he can do this all day long. All he need is a list of addresses.
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers. >>
Agree and in that repect it could doom the series. Which is still good for collectors, but in a way who would want to collect these other than bullion? I think a lot less than the mint limit is right now. I hope I am wrong. I was hoping to get the UNC's and give as a few special Xmas gifts. So there goes that idea.
If I get a couple and a big dealer wants to buy them for a couple hundred over issue price, I'll sell. I figure a couple of years from now, the price will be much closer to issue.
I understand the logic, to get everyone who wants a coin the opportunity to buy one, but by doing so, the Mint is not going to be as profitable, so the Mint is costing the taxpayers money by doing it this way. They will have to pay employees (or whoever they outsource it to) more to pack, ship, etc. -- probably twice as many packages. Not to mention the additional costs of paying employees to answer that many more calls, and the telephone bill to take in that many more toll-free calls. The Mint is kinda funny that way. They do everything exactly opposite of what a business would do.
Thanks for info. If I want more just have to pay the aftermarket price. Mint will have to do extra work but will have alot less, people missing out. Good choice by them.
Because of this there will be more people owning less coins than the previous two spouse coins. This means that in the first 1-3 weeks there will be more listings on Ebay than with the first two. The prices will be less to start with for these coins (simply due to a larger supply to start with), but will go up instead of down as time goes on and flippers run out of supply.
<< <i>Because of this there will be more people owning less coins than the previous two spouse coins. This means that in the first 1-3 weeks there will be more listings on Ebay than with the first two. The prices will be less to start with for these coins (simply due to a larger supply to start with), but will go up instead of down as time goes on and flippers run out of supply. >>
This could be, but at least collectors who wanted one right off the bat but were 3-4 hours too late last time will likely have a chance to get one at the issue price instead of being at the mercy of flippers.
People who would pay more in the aftermarket in this case would be (a) speculators and (b) people who had a week to commit but failed to do so. I wouldn't feel too bad for either of those groups if they had to pay up big.
<< <i>I understand the logic, to get everyone who wants a coin the opportunity to buy one, but by doing so, the Mint is not going to be as profitable, so the Mint is costing the taxpayers money by doing it this way. They will have to pay employees (or whoever they outsource it to) more to pack, ship, etc. -- probably twice as many packages. Not to mention the additional costs of paying employees to answer that many more calls, and the telephone bill to take in that many more toll-free calls. The Mint is kinda funny that way. They do everything exactly opposite of what a business would do. >>
The mint SHOULD make a profit but the profit SHOULD be tempered with meeting the needs of the most collectors they can. If it is ONLY a profit center, then it needs to completely change.
I can sure tell who the people who sell/flip are by the answers
I would much rather be able to buy one than none which is what happened the first time around as my order was cancelled. As I walked around the ANA show I saw a few dealers with cases stuffed with these coins. These need to be available to the public, and if there are mass quantities left, then let the rest of the production go. Everyone would like to make a few bucks but the first release was a fiasco with one of those tv shows bragging they bought 10% of the coins from the mint. That is outragous when the limit was five of each!
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>the first release was a fiasco with one of those tv shows bragging they bought 10% of the coins from the mint. That is outragous when the limit was five of each! >>
What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics... ... "Fascinating, but not logical"
I think this will push supply and demand causing higher prices to much lead time on the mints part should have waited on the news relase theses flippers will have time to set up their plays just my guess
I was expecting and hoping for a per household limit of 3 of each option, but 1 per? Only problem I have with this scenerio is, when receiving only one of each option, there will be no room for error when it comes to picking out the best examples for ones' collection. If the coin(s) are flawed, then we're stuck with no recourse of picking up better quality examples. Lots of collectors get accused of buying just to flip, but in actuality we're trying to acquire the best examples possible. Also, the big dealers will easily get around per household limit. Oh well, better some than possibly none!
<< <i> Only problem I have with this scenerio is, when receiving only one of each option, there will be no room for error when it comes to picking out the best examples for ones' collection. If the coin(s) are flawed, then we're stuck with no recourse of picking up better quality examples. Lots of collectors get accused of buying just to flip, but in actuality we're trying to acquire the best examples possible. >>
That is a really good point.
Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
A thought just popped into my mind? Go figure.... Now that there are going to be MORE collectors able to acquire the Jefferson Liberty coins, does anyone think that the value of Martha and Abbie will start to climb, or not?
Interesting question. Without multiple coins flipped to flood the market it may be a good thing. Wide distribution may create a larger base of collectors.
However, with most of the interested folks able to get one specimen, it may not have a large after market, nor a perceived rarity. Now, that would be a bad thing.
Perhaps it will be solved only by the passage of time.
Only problem I have with this scenerio is, when receiving only one of each option, there will be no room for error when it comes to picking out the best examples
Exactly. I sent in a few to PCGS hoping for a 70. No luck. I am attempting to collect the series, but it looks like they will be slabbed 69's with trueviews and raw versions to go in the enormous box that will hold all the proof coins together. I hope they will offer this still.
Very interesting change of course for the Mint with dropping the limit to 1.
I am disappointed because it takes 20 of these coins for a bulk submission to PCGS and I was able to order this on my own last time around. I think this will drive the price of the 70s up quite a bit because there will be less graded coins available. I think this change will not have an impact on the deep pockets on TV or the large dealers. They will find a way to get their coins.
Bear is right, some collectors will still complain because this is taking place right before a holiday weekend and some will be out of town and miss it anyway.
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
This is a good thing for collectors and I do not feel bad for the TV scammers. I have two addresses, two cards and employees who love cash. Put me in for 5 of each. I am bringing my A game to this one.
Comments
Seems like this limit will be applied for the First Week of sales only. After the first week, the limit might be lifted.
Darn, now I have to set up all these extra instant shopping profiles.......
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers.
<< <i>
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers. >>
What issues with the first round?
I don't see any issues, if you logged on, you got the coins. It took me 2 minutes at 1PM to order all my coins.
<< <i>Seems like this limit will be applied for the First Week of sales only. After the first week, the limit might be lifted. >>
This is the best option, IMO. Everyone who wants one at issue price should have a reasonable time window in which to buy it, after which time I think all limits should be lifted or significantly raised. Anyone who complains that they couldn't get one during a week-long window is crying to deaf ears.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers. >>
What issues with the first round?
I don't see any issues, if you logged on, you got the coins. It took me 2 minutes at 1PM to order all my coins. >>
Not an "issue" to me but several people decried the quick sellout and number of coins allowed per order(Someone posted a letter sent to Mint Director in another thread, numerous CW editorials, letter to Congressmen ie.). You snooze you lose in my book but The Mint got the picture and has changed the limits. Pure and simple, collector outcries led to this change in my opinion. Again, good for the collector bad for the flippers!!
Hoard the keys.
-David
Box of 20
I think the net effect will be that the Jefferson coin will be very valuable, not only for its design but also because it will be widely distributed with few big hoards. I plan to buy one of each.
If you can't purchase in the first week you did not want the coin.....
<< <i>I agree it will make the flipping even more lucrative. I see a lot of P.O. boxes being opened up and credit card billing addresses changed to these P.O. Boxes. >>
Just curious. With the Mint's automatic upgrade to FedEX on orders over $300(?) how do you get your order delivered to a PO box?
<< <i>I agree it will make the flipping even more lucrative. I see a lot of P.O. boxes being opened up and credit card billing addresses changed to these P.O. Boxes. >>
Is the CC billing address checked or the delivery address? Always wondered how they sifted through things to detect multiple orders as I am sure others are also at this point but won't admit it
don't see any issues, if you logged on, you got the coins.
Great! You won't have trouble on the next coins, either.
Box of 20
If I were a flipper (
Have multiple credit cards with different billing addresses
Don't use the same billing and shipping addresses for different orders
Make a lot of friends with credit cards
BTW...I like the picture from MacCrimmon. I haven't stopped laughing...
<< <i>The US Mint sends the coin via registered parcel post. It takes longer. I have a PO Box and it takes almost a week to get the coin after the Mint notifies me. >>
Os is that your automatic upgrade if you have a PO box? Registered Parcel Post? Is that described on their website? Thanks
<< <i>I am not 100 percent sure but I am sure they use the billing address on the credit card. >>
They don't ask for the billing address of the CC, that I can confirm. They do however track delivery addresses
US Mint Shipping Policies
<< <i>
<< <i>I would guess that they will be gone in a couple of days, if not hours. The large dealers will figure out a way to get relatives and others to buy for them so that they have an inventory, and, as word gets out there will be a number of collectors buying also. >>
Probably a couple of days to a week is more likely. I bet the limit is never lifted due to first round issues and the supposed outcry. I believe even the most well connected people will have some degree of difficulty accumulating a large "stash." You must have a credit card and have different addresses for these to be shipped to. Sounds like a flippers logistical nightmare!! Good for the collectors bad for the flippers. >>
Agree and in that repect it could doom the series. Which is still good for collectors, but in a way who would want to collect these other than bullion? I think a lot less than the mint limit is right now. I hope I am wrong. I was hoping to get the UNC's and give as a few special Xmas gifts. So there goes that idea.
<< <i>Because of this there will be more people owning less coins than the previous two spouse coins. This means that in the first 1-3 weeks there will be more listings on Ebay than with the first two. The prices will be less to start with for these coins (simply due to a larger supply to start with), but will go up instead of down as time goes on and flippers run out of supply. >>
This could be, but at least collectors who wanted one right off the bat but were 3-4 hours too late last time will likely have a chance to get one at the issue price instead of being at the mercy of flippers.
People who would pay more in the aftermarket in this case would be (a) speculators and (b) people who had a week to commit but failed to do so. I wouldn't feel too bad for either of those groups if they had to pay up big.
<< <i>I understand the logic, to get everyone who wants a coin the opportunity to buy one, but by doing so, the Mint is not going to be as profitable, so the Mint is costing the taxpayers money by doing it this way. They will have to pay employees (or whoever they outsource it to) more to pack, ship, etc. -- probably twice as many packages. Not to mention the additional costs of paying employees to answer that many more calls, and the telephone bill to take in that many more toll-free calls. The Mint is kinda funny that way. They do everything exactly opposite of what a business would do. >>
The mint SHOULD make a profit but the profit SHOULD be tempered with meeting the needs of the most collectors they can.
If it is ONLY a profit center, then it needs to completely change.
I can sure tell who the people who sell/flip are by the answers
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>the first release was a fiasco with one of those tv shows bragging they bought 10% of the coins from the mint. That is outragous when the limit was five of each! >>
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
to much lead time on the mints part should have waited on the news relase
theses flippers will have time to set up their plays just my guess
Only problem I have with this scenerio is, when receiving only one of each option, there will be no room for error when it comes to picking out the best examples
for ones' collection. If the coin(s) are flawed, then we're stuck with no recourse of picking up better quality examples.
Lots of collectors get accused of buying just to flip, but in actuality we're trying to acquire the best examples possible.
Also, the big dealers will easily get around per household limit. Oh well, better some than possibly none!
<< <i>
Only problem I have with this scenerio is, when receiving only one of each option, there will be no room for error when it comes to picking out the best examples
for ones' collection. If the coin(s) are flawed, then we're stuck with no recourse of picking up better quality examples.
Lots of collectors get accused of buying just to flip, but in actuality we're trying to acquire the best examples possible. >>
That is a really good point.
You can please all of the collectors some of the time
But, you can not please all of the collectors, all of the time
Of course, in the case of Forum members, It seems you can only
please some of the members some of the time. The rest, you can not
please at any time.
Camelot
Now that there are going to be MORE collectors able to acquire the Jefferson Liberty coins, does anyone think
that the value of Martha and Abbie will start to climb, or not?
the market it may be a good thing. Wide distribution may create
a larger base of collectors.
However, with most of the interested folks able to get one specimen,
it may not have a large after market, nor a perceived rarity. Now, that
would be a bad thing.
Perhaps it will be solved only by the passage of time.
Camelot
Exactly. I sent in a few to PCGS hoping for a 70. No luck. I am attempting to collect the series, but it looks like they will be slabbed 69's with trueviews and raw versions to go in the enormous box that will hold all the proof coins together. I hope they will offer this still.
Box of 20
I am disappointed because it takes 20 of these coins for a bulk submission to PCGS and I was able to order this on my own last time around. I think this will drive the price of the 70s up quite a bit because there will be less graded coins available. I think this change will not have an impact on the deep pockets on TV or the large dealers. They will find a way to get their coins.
Bear is right, some collectors will still complain because this is taking place right before a holiday weekend and some will be out of town and miss it anyway.