Pack Break - Wild and crazy idea

TomTim · August 9, 2007 7:35AM

1952 Wax Pack from BBCE for $5500

50 people kick in $110 (or 100 people kick in $55). The organizer opens the pack (videotaped and posted to YouTube, of course) and agrees to submit all five cards to PSA and immediately sell via eBay/Mastro/etc.

50/100 people split the proceeds, whatever they might be.

I'll nominate Gary to be the organizer.

Discuss.

perkdog · August 9, 2007 7:39AM

I will say this much, if we could get a bunch of SOLID people to go in on it, I would have no problem wagering a few hundred dollars in an adventure like that. Im serious too, allthough I would not want to handle the money or the purchase, it would have to be someone who has dealt with BBC and knows Steve.

Bigstep · August 9, 2007 7:48AM

I'm in

FavreFan1971 · August 9, 2007 8:00AM

I am in

bifff257 · August 9, 2007 8:01AM

Interesting idea!!!!!!!!!!!

perkdog · August 9, 2007 8:04AM

Even if it was just 25 people, it would amount to a little over $220 each.

rube26105 · August 9, 2007 8:08AM

im in if we can get enuff people,glad its not a gai pack!how often do ya get the chance at a mantle/mays/robinson/ect... and all the other goodies in there! i agree with perk, 25 people sound good,be alot less confusing- whacha think?
randy
yer perkies look better to me every day,wheres stown?,need his pic here too,they go well toghether!

1980scollector · August 9, 2007 8:22AM

I will do it! That is be one of the people in on it but not organizing it!

EAsports · August 9, 2007 8:33AM

Would you guys mind sending me the wrapper? I'm doing a table top for my bar.

Allen · August 9, 2007 8:37AM

These do not have series packs do they? This pack could contain any card from the set from 1-high numbers? I gotta say, I would probably be in haha.

bifff257 · August 9, 2007 8:39AM

<< These do not have series packs do they? >>

That is a good question... I am not sure it would be worth it without a least a shot at a Mantle!!

pandrews · August 9, 2007 8:41AM

i'd be in if you get 50 people to do it..

cwazzy · August 9, 2007 8:44AM

What the hell. I'd be in.

Chris

pandrews · August 9, 2007 8:48AM

i guess we'd also need to contribute money to have anything gradeable slabbed too..

perkdog · August 9, 2007 8:54AM

<< i guess we'd also need to contribute money to have anything gradeable slabbed too.. >>

Yes it would cost a little more, but not enough to crash the idea right? If anyone knows Steve and does not mind asking him what series pack it is, it would be very much appreaciated.

RipublicaninMass · August 9, 2007 8:54AM

I would travel to see the rip! I would also put in an extra 50 bucks to eat the gum. The 52 are Series packs. ANyone know Steve Ahrt well enough to tell us which series it is?

RipublicaninMass · August 9, 2007 8:55AM

<< I would travel to see the rip! I would also put in an extra 50 bucks to eat the gum. The 52 are Series packs. Anyone know Steve Hart well enough to tell us which series it is? >>

TomTim · August 9, 2007 8:55AM

<< i guess we'd also need to contribute money to have anything gradeable slabbed too.. >>

True and that's the part that will be hard to estimate. The grading fees on a Mantle will be more than the fees on a Zernial. I don't believe the series of this pack is known. Most likely not a high number pack, but you never know.

Leiascards · August 9, 2007 8:56AM

I would take the gamble.

cravetopps · August 9, 2007 9:04AM

I would take the gamble. Good question about the series of the pack. I don't believe there is any way to know unless one of the cards is visible somehow through the wrapper. It would not surprise me if there was not some way to examine the top or bottom card somehow. Anybody ever hear of this? But from what I can tell, all the wrappers look identical regardless of the series.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · August 9, 2007 9:05AM

.....cuz it never gets used.

.

Downtown1974 · August 9, 2007 9:17AM

I could be persuaded to get in on this.

prscott933 · August 9, 2007 9:29AM

i could also be persuaded to get in on it. we need to know the series...

Charlie9 · August 9, 2007 9:39AM

I would be in if we can tell if there's a shot at a Mantle (series wise).

nam812 · August 9, 2007 9:47AM

I had heard Steve sold his 5 cent 1952 wax pack at the National. Someone should double check before you all get too psyched up. I was standing there when he said that the guy was gonna open it at 4 PM at the PSA booth, and Steve asked for them to bring the gum back to him so he could examine it.

perkdog · August 9, 2007 9:58AM

Nick I just checked his websight and it stated he had 2 on consignment. It also said it was updated in Febuary, so you may be right.

ArnyVee · August 9, 2007 10:02AM

Why not try it with a pack a little less expensive. Maybe a $500-1000 pack of something vintage.

I would probably be in with the '52 pack, but if we could get something like 50 involved.

Why not test it out on a '65 pack with Tony Perez showing for $750 ('65 Topps Series 7 Pack) or a pack of '66 series 1 cards with Mays & Mantle opportunities for $700 (1966 Series 1 Pack)?

I think something like that could get us working towards the ultimate goal of a '52 pack or something.

nam812 · August 9, 2007 10:14AM

Because if both years yield no stars, then 6's, 7's, and 8's of common 1952's will bring more return on investment than 7's, 8s, and 9's of common 1966's.

bigred1 · August 9, 2007 10:19AM

I realize I have not made many posts, but I would do it, what the heck, I bought about 10 of the 52 pack chase boxes, 8 baseball, 2 multisport, you guys might not want me in, got nothing of any value there.

Clemaz · August 9, 2007 10:25AM

I would be interested.

41GoudeyGuy · August 9, 2007 10:26AM

There were 3 packs at Steve's booth on Saturday at the National. I bet he still has at least one available. I am interested in this and would absolutely love to be the guy who opened the pack.

TomTim · August 9, 2007 10:26AM

<< Why not try it with a pack a little less expensive. Maybe a $500-1000 pack of something vintage.

I think something like that could get us working towards the ultimate goal of a '52 pack or something. >>

You're probably right. With only 5 cards, one touching gum and the other touching wax, you're taking a really big risk on condition. The oldest packs I've opened are 72 OPC and they had pretty bad pack damage. Since you usually get better condition from rack packs, the safest option might be a vintage rack, but I think 1968 is about the oldest available. More cards, better condition, lower entry price. Would still be fun, but not as exciting as a 52.

gemint · August 9, 2007 10:34AM

It's most likely a series 1 pack as that is the most common. There was that famous, yet controversial high series wax box auctioned by Mastro a few years back. Other than that, I've only come across 1st series packs. No Mantle but you could try for the Pafko though.

Kurtman9 · August 9, 2007 10:50AM

I'm sure it would be very exciting. Seems very risky tho.. at least 2 and maybe 3 of the cards will be destroyed by the gum, don't you guys think?

Allen · August 9, 2007 10:56AM

Any link about the Mastro box? I would like to read that. Also wasn't a hi series case unearthed a decade or so ago?

xbaggypants · August 9, 2007 11:46AM

Count me in!

dontippet · August 9, 2007 12:35PM

I would be tempted to join if this every materialized.

Don

noanswersonlyquestions · August 9, 2007 12:42PM

Count me in as long as we can get 50 people or close to it. Maybe I missed it but how would the money transfer go? Whoever gets the money ( in charge guy) would lose on paypal. But however it works out definitely interested.

nam812 · August 9, 2007 12:44PM

Just rememeber this cant be handled 100 percent by Steve. It has to be craked open, and the cards submitted to PSA. I don't think Steve will do wither one of those things.

perkdog · August 9, 2007 1:10PM

Well first off if we do get an acceptable amount of people that want in we then would have to trust a boardmember to handle the rip and sending the cards in to PSA, I dont know if Steve would accept 25-50 people sending him payments seperately. Im starting to think this wont work, personally I would not mind trusting one of you people to handle the rip and psa end of things but that would have to be voted on or something. Personally I will NOT handle the rip or PSA part, however I would pay my fair share to make this work. If one of you guys can come up with a suggestion that would work for everyone by all meens post it. I have never done bussiness with Steve so maybe one of you who have could talk to him about it.

noanswersonlyquestions · August 9, 2007 1:28PM

Watched these boards for a long time and wouldn't mind if an established member was chosen. There's several people that are very well established and beyond reproach. Obviously not a newbie such as myself, but this would be fun. Would be the only way that I would ever be a part of a 52 pack rip.

JackWESQ · August 9, 2007 1:33PM

"You" perked my interest.

/s/ JackWESQ

RipublicaninMass · August 9, 2007 1:58PM

you could try for the Pafko though.

yeah remeber that!!! Guy busted a pack and got the ONLY ONE Pafko PSA 10 that he then sold for 83k

Leiascards · August 9, 2007 2:05PM

Series one also has Eddie Mathews a nice PSA 7 or better of that card would be very good.

nam812 · August 9, 2007 2:09PM

<< Series one also has Eddie Mathews a nice PSA 7 or better of that card would be very good. >>

That is incorrect. Eddie Mathews is card #407, the final card in the set, so he is definitely not in series 1.

Phil Rizzuto, Warren Spahn, Duke Snider, and Gil Hodges are contained within the first 80 cards.

Leiascards · August 9, 2007 2:11PM

You are right for some reason I was thinking Mathews had card #1 in the set. It is Pafko.

cohocorp · August 9, 2007 2:30PM

at the Reading PA show awhile back steve and i were discussing the 2- 1952 topps packs he has on consignment and he told me that he believes they are series #1 packs. now there is really is no way of knowing at this point in time as there is no distinction on the packs between series. there are some high dollar cards in series #1 if high grade, for example, the pafko #1 is over $14000 in psa 7. although the pack break is a cool idea, its nearly impossible to make out. how about some input from anyone who opened graded vintage packs and submitted the singles to get an idea what kind of grades to expect on the singles. what i am getting at is that if a vintage pack is graded psa 6, does that mean that the cards will grade out in the psa 6 range (psa5-psa7) in the end or what. i understand the overall pack condition is 6 but that doesnt really tell me anything about the singles at all. there are 6 cards per pack in the nickel packs for 1952. with the exception of getting the pafko and it grading psa 7, you will need to score some nice psa 8s i believe for this to work. basically six random cards from the first series (#1-80) all graded psa 6 will return considerably less than $1000 even throwing in a star card like the snider #37. i will reiterate however that it is a neat idea, but financially it doesnt work.

edited to add: after the Reading show i was really considering buying the 2 packs steve had and busting them but i came to the above conclusion so i have thought this through.

JackWESQ · August 9, 2007 3:03PM

I gave this some thought and have come to the conclusion that this would be nothing short of a monumental task. Let’s say we get fifty (50) people to participate. An “official” list is made an all fifty (50) people are identified, e.g. name, address and telephone number.

Then, we have to determine who among the fifty shall be (I’ll call him in honor of the NFL season) the Commissioner. Each of the fifty sends the Commissioner the $110.00 via check, money order, Paypal, etc. We don’t want to short change the Commissioner, so the sender covers any and all fees. The Commissioner confirms receipt of payment from each of the fifty.

The Commissioner contacts BBCE and purchases and pays for the 1952 Topps pack. The Commissioner receives the pack and hopefully has a camcorder. The Commissioner videotapes the receipt and opening of the pack and uploads the video to You Tube. Now it gets interesting. The pack has a Mantle. Of course, we get it graded. The Commissioner could mail it to PSA to get it graded or, if he lives close enough, to go PSA Public Fridays and drop it off personally. At the same time, the Commissioner arranges for local pick up (this is an option and is available by appointment only.) The grading fees for a 1952 Mantle would be $200.00. The Commissioner fronts the fees. Or, all fifty people send payment (pre or otherwise) or $4.00. Let’s say it grades a PSA 6 – a cool $20,000.00 to $25,000.00.

The Commissioner lists the Mantle on ebay for a ten (10) day auction. All fifty of us watch with anticipation. The final selling price is $22,500.00. The buyer, crazy enough, decides not to send cash, and send payment via Paypal. Pay fees to accept a $22,500.00 payment are $495.30! Net receipt of payment is $22004.70. Out of that, the Commissioner gets reimbursed his grading and ebay fees. Ebay fees on a $22,500.00 sale is $355.50. As such, the funds available for distribution are $21,449.20. Divide that amount by fifty (50), you get $428.98 per person. To avoid the issue of lost payment, checks, money orders, etc., the $428.98 is sent via Paypal to everyone. Paypal fees to accept $428.98 is $12.74, reducing the net gain to $416.24. Everyone profits $306.24 and the enjoyment of the “high” on cracking a 1952 Topps pack. Of course, this deals only with one card. The process would hold the same for all five (5) cards.

The end. Well not quite. The Commissioner now has two options. Deal with the IRS or not deal with the IRS. To deal with the IRS is to explain how he didn’t profit $22,500.00 from the sale of a sports card. Or not deal with the IRS and hope he doesn’t get audited.

Or, we could pull a Johnny Bucha (#19), Ray Scarborough (#43), Eddie Stanky (#76), Don Bollweg (#128) and a Don Johnson (#190) and this entire post would be moot.

/s/ JackWESQ

cohocorp · August 9, 2007 3:13PM

the 50 individual $429 paypal payments are part of his cost basis. he has to claim it of course but there isnt going to be any income tax because of it. all the gains are paid out. still a huge hassle though.

Trev · August 9, 2007 3:25PM

So who wants to be the commissioner??

Trevor

obusek99 · August 9, 2007 3:44PM

I'm in

Pack Break - Wild and crazy idea

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