Have you contacted the Secret Service about this? They are also the Treasury Department's police force. They handle identity theft crimes. Becaus this is an interstate crime, it is going to fall under federal jurisdiction. You might want to try the FBI also.
I had someone hijack a credit card. I caught them ordering electronics form online retailers. The police in Baltimore (delivery address) were not interested. Amex was not interested because the statement had not been printed, so the transaction was not "official". The online retailer that could cancel the order did, but the other one had already shipped. Amex did not hold me responsible for the charges, but we all pay for this stuff and I'm amazed that local law enforcement was not more interested in catching these people.
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
Have you contacted the Secret Service about this? They are also the Treasury Department's police force. They handle identity theft crimes. Becaus this is an interstate crime, it is going to fall under federal jurisdiction. You might want to try the FBI also.
I had someone hijack a credit card. I caught them ordering electronics form online retailers. The police in Baltimore (delivery address) were not interested. Amex was not interested because the statement had not been printed, so the transaction was not "official". The online retailer that could cancel the order did, but the other one had already shipped. Amex did not hold me responsible for the charges, but we all pay for this stuff and I'm amazed that local law enforcement was not more interested in catching these people. >>
The only interest the police have is in traffic violations and donut shops. You can't even count on them for help when you need them. Many years ago I had someone shoot a bullet through my window when I was sitting right next to it. The cop that showed up was P***** because I was wasting his time. Man, I mean I was shot at and I'm wasting your time. What a way to find out the cops are not your freind as they always try to act.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>The only interest the police have is in traffic violations and donut shops. >>
Sure seems that way sometimes. When I was burglarized in the fall of 2002, one of the items stolen was the checkbook for my money market account. An idiot teller at Homestreet Bank in Seattle cashed a $3250 forged check from the scumbag. I called the Seattle police department and they said that since the burglary happened in Kent, they couldn't do anything about the check. I called the Kent police department, and they said that since the stolen check was cashed in Seattle, I had to call the Seattle police department. I said screw this, and gave up.
The only silver lining was that the morons at Homestreet Bank were out $3250.
I'm lucky, my local police are actually very resourceful and helpful. Some kids went through the neighborhood smashing mailboxes and the police caught them (I reported it). He was a juvenile and the family court made him write letters of apology and pay restitution.
Part of my point is that you may need to contact the right branch of law enforcement to get the proper response. The local police could be more helpful and tell you that you need to contact the Secret Service or FBI.
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
<< <i>Very frustrating indeed. I find it utterly mind-boggling that the police will go bust a 17 yr. old shoplifter, some kid with a joint, or that they seemingly have all day long to write annoying tickets to tax abiding citizens. But, when it comes to actually going after real white collar fraud, they are as inept as Cletis on the Dukes of Hazzard.
White collar crime does pay, because the police could care less in most cases (or they don't understand the complexities of the crime), or lack the energy to do anything more than oogle the waitresses at the Dunkin doughnuts.
I think that if you were so inclined, you could go fly to the city where the crime occured (or call first to see if a detective will take your case) and provide evidence to the police of the fraudulant cashiers check and transaction. For the police, it would be as simple as going to the Post office to see who is registered at the P.O. box you sent the coin to, then going to his house and making an arrest.
Tyler >>
I can see Tyler must be an avid viewer of CSI and all of the other similar programming since he apparently knows everything there is to know about law enforcement, what we do, how we do it, and how we should do it. Why should I get pissed by such an arrogant, self-serving, ignorant, and ridiculous comment when such is the norm today. People do foolish things all of the time and yet it's always the fault of the police.
What do you want HIS police to do Tyler? Call someone in to go on a wild goose chase to Texas, pay their OT, their airfare, meals, etc?? The crime occurred wherever Tom is. He can certainly file a report with his police and ask them to have the agency in Texas to follow up on the matter and assist THEM. Fact is most large agencies don't have the personnel, much less time, to investigate matters that go across state lines. Most agencies are busy babysitting and parenting people's children and dealing with crimes such as burglary, assaults, domestic violence, DUI's, etc....but those aren't real crimes I guess.
These crooks today use prepaid phones, fake ID's, etc. Your fairytale ending to your ignorant reply is just that, a fairytale. Fact is many of these crooks are much smarter than even YOU and they're getting better and better at fake checks, etc every day. It's not that LE doesn't care about these checks and scams, it's that there is very little we can do about it.
There is a scam going on around our area now. People are receiving official looking checks from US companies for 4-5000.00. They come in an envelope with canadian postage. People are foolish enough to cash these, send the place money, and then in about a week the bank calls and tells them that the check was a fraud. The people then try and call the number that they called before, no longer working number. The scammer is off with a few thousand dollars and the person owes the bank the money. we've had 2 people fall for this in the past month.
I have always been under the belief that a bank can return a check for up to a year after they first accept it and then they just reverse your deposit. I never thought this was right but if you figure the possibility that the check may have been stolen it could happen.
Thank goodness you were able to head them off at the pass and will get the coin returned.
Russ, you are smart to call about each check. It's a good idea. I NEVER would have thought of it.
I check my credit card each and every day online. One day online I noticed a $400 Pay Pal charge on my AMEX. Now I know I use another charge for Pay Pal, and called Pay Pal and AMEX the same morning it was listed. I don't think the @#$% was able to get the $400. I also immediately canceled my credit card number.
Glad you stopped the package and goose trying to explain our job to people like Tyler is like nailing jello to a tree very entertaing to those watching but a waste of our time.
Support your local gunslinger, you never know when you'll need him
<< <i>Glad you stopped the package and goose trying to explain our job to people like Tyler is like nailing jello to a tree very entertaing to those watching but a waste of our time. >>
You could educate some of us though. And that would not be a waste of your time. Just as I wouldn't expect you to know how to do my job at the level of detail that I know it from 20+ years of experience, you can't expect me to know yours at the level of detail that you know it.
Educate us. Tell us what we should do when confronted with this situation and how to work with law enforcement.
I could have the same attitude about people who can't use a computer very well, but I'd rather keep my clients.
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
<< <i>Glad you stopped the package and goose trying to explain our job to people like Tyler is like nailing jello to a tree very entertaing to those watching but a waste of our time. >>
We are too! ( looks like it anyway, but we'll know on monday).
Without any disrespect meant for the police, the officer who was in my home last night was essentially useless. Would not even call and advise Houston PD of anything. Told me that Houston was "out of control and who knows what they're doing over there" endquote. Said that the "economic crime unit" would be in touch with me in a week or two. Went on to tell me that he used to "ice-scate near the address on the sender's letterhead in Houston" ! ( By the way, excellent investigative work Russ, how'd ya find that out? Really good! )
I'll admit that as good as I usually am about these things, this is one time I was snoozing and was nailed. Like I said though, first time in many many moons and Russ you're right, I should have called first. That's my fault. When you own your own business, especially a coin business you find that you have to be a kind of secret agent , numismatist, salesman, buyer, politician, bookeeper, collection agency, world traveler sometimes, body guard, investigator, etc etc etc all rolled into one. It's so much easier simply working for one of the big companies............but then again that's no fun at all
<< <i>Glad you stopped the package and goose trying to explain our job to people like Tyler is like nailing jello to a tree very entertaing to those watching but a waste of our time. >>
You could educate some of us though. And that would not be a waste of your time. Just as I wouldn't expect you to know how to do my job at the level of detail that I know it from 20+ years of experience, you can't expect me to know yours at the level of detail that you know it.
Educate us. Tell us what we should do when confronted with this situation and how to work with law enforcement.
I could have the same attitude about people who can't use a computer very well, but I'd rather keep my clients. >>
The statement was directed at people like Tyler not the general public I agree educating the public is a high priority but in 18 years I've learned some folks are just a waste of my time sad but just a fact of life.
Each city, county, and state has different laws and policies the best advice I can give you is to check with your local agency on any crime prevention programs available and attend one this applies to bussiness owners as well as neighborhoods.
If every one did this I'de have fewer clients and would be very happy with that.
Support your local gunslinger, you never know when you'll need him
mrearlygold, sorry for my rant but at times we get tired of the bashing, in our area each one man unit handles 28-35 calls for service a day ranging from the neighbors dog is barking to shots fired.
I'm sorry you had a cop who reponded in the manner he did, it's not up to him to tell you about Houston but it was his job to explain how his deprtment would handle your complaint and refer you to the proper location to get answers to questions he could not answer.
Support your local gunslinger, you never know when you'll need him
<< <i>What I'd like to know is how the scumbag found you. What this an Ebay transaction? Other site? I'd sure like to know if he uses an ebay handle. thanks and good luck with the return of the coins. bob >>
I followed a similiar scam unfold on the Currency Forum last October. From what could be figured out was that the scam people were getting their marks from Bank Note Reporter, kinda like NN or CW for coins.
Also, I'm saying this without any suggestion to how something like this should be handled because I don't know. But, is it smart to be talking about an ongoing crime in the open on a message board? If the person(s) who pulled this are knowledgeable about the PCGS forums and read this thread, then I doubt they will be picking up anything in Houston. Getting the info out so others don't get burned is definitely a priority. But doing it with a public forum seems to be letting the preps stay that one step ahead. Please, nobody read any finger pointing into what I just said. I have no solution or suggestion.
I also appreciate your answer and the job that you (and others on this forum) do. I know that all police officers are not alike. I wish you did just get to drive around, drink coffee and eat donuts but we know that is not reality. I'm sure that the movies and TV don't help the average person understand all your job entails (even COPS is edited for TV). Of course my job isn't exciting enough for TV or movies, but I prefer to keep it that way.
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
US Post Office Form 1509 - "SENDER'S APPLICATION FOR RECALL OF MAIL"
You'll have to get the form on line since most Post Offices do not carry that form. But I was you, I'd call the Post Office which it was going to and tell them that you have filled out a 1509 SENDER'S APPLICATION FOR RECALL OF MAIL and would like to fax it to them with a follow up with your local post office.
Good luck!
So many notes to collect. So little time to do it.
<< <i>US Post Office Form 1509 - "SENDER'S APPLICATION FOR RECALL OF MAIL"
You'll have to get the form on line since most Post Offices do not carry that form. But I was you, I'd call the Post Office which it was going to and tell them that you have filled out a 1509 SENDER'S APPLICATION FOR RECALL OF MAIL and would like to fax it to them with a follow up with your local post office. >>
Thanks Cabletow, FLBuffalohunter put that link up on page one of this thread and I immediately filed it out , faxed it to Houston, left it under the door of the office at the local PO here at 1AM last night AND personally brought a copy into the PO this morning.
I never knew it existed until I started this thread which has been a great help and very informative thus far.
<< <i>What I'd like to know is how the scumbag found you. What this an Ebay transaction? Other site? I'd sure like to know if he uses an ebay handle. thanks and good luck with the return of the coins. bob >>
I followed a similiar scam unfold on the Currency Forum last October. From what could be figured out was that the scam people were getting their marks from Bank Note Reporter, kinda like NN or CW for coins.
Also, I'm saying this without any suggestion to how something like this should be handled because I don't know. But, is it smart to be talking about an ongoing crime in the open on a message board? If the person(s) who pulled this are knowledgeable about the PCGS forums and read this thread, then I doubt they will be picking up anything in Houston. Getting the info out so others don't get burned is definitely a priority. But doing it with a public forum seems to be letting the preps stay that one step ahead. Please, nobody read any finger pointing into what I just said. I have no solution or suggestion.
Jerry >>
This is the same guy that was doing it from California. He started scamming from California, moved to Texas, back to California and now it looks like he is back in Texas. Letter head and everything is the same. No blame can be placed as to why a check or bank check wasn't "verified" first, because none of the tellers can tell the difference. There are some security features that everyone should look for.
I am willing to bet that the address you shipped to is one of those mail box etc. kind of places, and the number you call either just rings or has a female stating you have reached the offices of blah blah blah. I posted a thread here and on the currency side a while back about this guy. He will change his "company" name and address as he gets new mail boxes. Just be on the lookout for his MO. There is a detective here in California who was assisting me by the name of Joe Pena. He was able to get the owners of the mailbox places to call the police when a package arrived for this guy. The thread should still be somewhere around here, but I am not good at doing searches. Look for the thread with all of the contact info, because we actually have the FBI involved.
This guy wont stop. He will keep going and changing his addresses and names.
The ANA sent out a "consumer alert" a while back about this guy as well.
edited to add: Another dead giveaway about this idiot is that he sends "professional" letter head with no fax number on it. Same color, same font.
Laura A. Kessler Vice President PCGS Currency lkessler@pcgscurrency.com www.PCGSCurrency.com
GENERAL INFORMATION The Check Fraud Division of the District Attorney's Office is responsible for investigating and prosecuting the offense of theft by check.
The Check Fraud Division is part of the Public Service Bureau of the Harris County District Attorney's Office. The Check Fraud Division is one of the few divisions at the District Attorney's Office that is able to take reports of criminal conduct directly from the victim of the crime. In virtually all other crimes, allegations of criminal conduct are reported to the police, and the District Attorney's Office reviews the police report to decide what charges, if any, are appropriate. The cases that can ordinarily be handled by the Check Fraud Division without the necessity of a police report are those in which a person writes his or her own check in exchange for goods, services or cash, and in which the victim can identify that person. http://dao-web.dao.hctx.net/ie/CheckFraud.cfm?choice=cfgen
Maybe it's a trap to see if the guy attempts to pick up the package. You couls try calling 800-ask-usps and see if they can check their internal system on the where the package is.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
It certainly wouldn't be the first time the online tracking information would be incorrect. Now, I'm not saying it's wrong either. I'd call the Post Master in Houston first thing on Monday. Do you know who your PM talked to this morning?
<< <i>You can prevent some of this stuff in the future by checking the following sources - >>
Or, he could have called The Bank of New York at 212.495.1784. I lookup and call on every cashier's check I receive.
Russ, NCNE >>
I was scrolling through this thread and waiting for this piece of info. Thanks Russ. As an ex-banker, another question we would ask on this is "Why is someone in Houston banking with someone in DE?" Usually, a firm/individual like this will work with a bank that they have a personal relationship or at last an ATM somewhere in town. My guess is that BofNY has no regional offices in Houston and I would also guess that this accounting firm is not nationwide.
Like everyone else, I hope this all works out for the best. I wanted to add that after 30 years of law enforcement, check frauds continue to be a huge problem. I see almost every Ebay auction that accepts checks states words to the effect of "must allow 10 days for check to clear". There are many many instances where fraudulent checks aren't discovered for MONTHS AND MONTHS!!!! and it will be you who is out the money. (yes, I'm in Canada but deal with US law enforcement regularily and the same goes for the good folks down there.)
Here is one of many sites that deal with frauds, and this one is good because it has a lot of items that deal with Ebay.
Again, keeping my fingers crossed that this works out well.
I was emailed this which also appears on the currency forum
NEWS
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: January 23, 2007
CONSUMER ALERT
CONTACT: Susan Mc Millan
Telephone: 719-482-9850
email: consumerawareness@money.org
BEWARE OF FRAUDULENT CASHIER'S CHECKS
It has come to our attention that several dealers have received fake cashier's checks from an individual in California. This individual has two known aliases and might have more we are not yet aware of: Marcus Smith dba Sunset Pointe Coin; Lawson, Colbert & Associates; and Williams, Smith & Associates; and James Gilmore dba Gilmore, Ellis & Associates. The various addresses used by this individual have all turned out to be mail box drop-off centers.
Detective Joe Pena of the Los Angeles County Sheriff Department confirmed that this individual has targeted various dealers who advertise in the Bank Note Reporter and in Coin World. However, Detective Pena suspects his activity is not limited to these two sources. Detective Pena is trying to determine the extent of this person's activities as well as locate and arrest him.
If you receive(d) an order for coins or paper money accompanied by a cashier's check you suspect was sent by this individual, or if you have any information regarding this individual, please contact Detective Pena or the ANA as soon as possible. Detective Pena can be reached at (562) 906-5404 or e-mail at jjpena@lasd.org.
Detective Pena has provided the following tips on how to safeguard yourself against fake cashier's checks:
Examine the cashier=s check closely and look for the following:
1. Authentic cashier=s checks have a microprint signature line and there is no text of any kind underneath that line.
2. Examine the border of the check. Do you see a microprint border around all of its edges? It should be there and it should also have a watermark printed on the back.
3. Locate the name of the financial institution that issued the cashier=s check. Get an actual phone number for the business through the internet or directory assistance, call them and ask for verification that the check is good.
4. Do not think that because someone at your bank has examined the cashier's check and assured you that it is valid, you will be safe later when the check turns out to be fake. You are responsible for all checks deposited into your account. Also, under federal law, banks have to make funds you deposit available, usually within 5 days. Just because you can withdraw the money does not mean that the check was good. Weeks later, when the bank is notified that the cashier=s check is fake, the amount will be deducted from your account. The bank has the right to do so and you will not have any recourse.
The ANA would like to personally thank Laura Kessler (ANA Member 3126448) of Kessler Coin & Currency for her countless hours of research and assistance with this investigation.
The American Numismatic Association is a nonprofit educational organization dedicated to educating and encouraging people to study and collect money and related items. With nearly 32,000 members, the Association serves the academic community, collectors and the general public with an interest in numismatics. The ANA helps all people discover and explore the world of money through its vast array of programs including its education and outreach, museum, library, publications, conventions and seminars. For more information about the ANA, call 719.632.2646 or visit www.MONEY.org.
<< <i>( By the way, excellent investigative work Russ, how'd ya find that out? Really good! ) >>
I Googled the address.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, we just typed in the address on another bad check we received and found out it's a UPS store.
16 years and not a single incidence. Now suddenly we have a run of them? I seriously doubt this is coincidental. Checking another one right now..........
I spoke with Laura tonight and she told me this "person" sends out orders to coin and currency dealers, picking them out and sending phony bank checks to people who advertise in coin world, etc etc. Sends out 20 and 30 at a clip. That we're not the only ones who are sitting up tonight, probably out of thousands of dollars, and with several orders, all bogus.
Yup, this other one is a UPS store too. Wow.
I'll be calling the FBI as well as the store owners tomorrow. I'm sure they'll all be interested in seeing what I have here. I will post copies of these checks as well. No stone will be left unturned . I believe there are definitely people right here on this forum that are setting people up.
What's really cool about yahoo is when you ask someone to confirm their shipping address, it comes in with a link to where that address is on a map AND if it has multiple addresses such as a UPS store or other mail drop it will show you that.
One of the sad things about this situation is that some people use places like the UPS store and PO boxes for legitimate reasons.
I used them when I was working for an employer who did not allow you to receive personal packages to be delivered to the office. When you had item that needed to be signed for, it made things difficult. The UPS stores (and places like that) allow you to have UPS, USPS and Fedex packages delivered there. They are open later so you can take care of business in the evening and not get into trouble with your employer.
I really hope this person (or people) get arrested in addition to Tom getting his coins back!
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
Actually, I have noticed a dramatic increase lately in the number of fraudulent checks and money orders. I'm getting them at the rate of about one a month now.
<< <i>One of the sad things about this situation is that some people use places like the UPS store and PO boxes for legitimate reasons.
I used them when I was working for an employer who did not allow you to receive personal packages to be delivered to the office. When you had item that needed to be signed for, it made things difficult. The UPS stores (and places like that) allow you to have UPS, USPS and Fedex packages delivered there. They are open later so you can take care of business in the evening and not get into trouble with your employer.
I really hope this person (or people) get arrested in addition to Tom getting his coins back! >>
Absolutely ilikebuffaloes, they are really helpful . Unfortunately some of the things that have evolved in this hobby and business, such as the internet, which helps us all do more business, learn more, have more fun, are also being used against us. This is a new one to me and I'm trying to learn right quick about what to do.
Thank you and we'll know one way or another tomorrow whether or not we've lost out or not. No matter what though, there's a conspiracy going on to defraud many of us and sooner or later let's hope these people get caught.
I know there is a way to report mail fraud and have the package put on hold. You could start by calling USPS and ask them for their Fraud Dept number. I had to do this once and I can not find the paperwork. There is a direct number out there where you call, tell them what is going on, and they will flag the package so it is not delivered. Good luck! I learned the hard way (twice) to always, ALWAYS wait 7 business days for all checks. If it is over $2500, I call the bank also, and still wait the 7 business days... You can have a great customers for several years, but that one jerk that rips you off several thousand dollars really puts a bad taste in your mouth for years too.
Tom, I hope everything works out tomorrow. With all of the high-end coins listed on usrarecoininvestments.com, I am a bit surprised that he picked two of the least expensive $20’s that are listed. I suppose he selected these coins to not draw attention to the possibility of fraud.
This is an interesting flip-side to the normal "Don't take PayPal, you'll be scammed!!!" posts that one finds around the net. It seems that taking traditional payment methods does not make one immune to being scammed... the scumbags will find a way.
<< <i>I just wish somebody would put people in jail over this s#$%. >>
Frankly, I wish the police had the right to ( once they are found to be guilty) take them out back and beat the crap out of them.
Thanks for the best wishes for tomorrow. I'll be on the phone again with the post office first thing.
Later on I'll post pictures of the other bad checks and unless I am instructed otherwise, will also publish the names, email addresses of these people as well,
Comments
Have you contacted the Secret Service about this? They are also the Treasury Department's police force. They handle identity theft crimes. Becaus this is an interstate crime, it is going to fall under federal jurisdiction. You might want to try the FBI also.
I had someone hijack a credit card. I caught them ordering electronics form online retailers. The police in Baltimore (delivery address) were not interested. Amex was not interested because the statement had not been printed, so the transaction was not "official". The online retailer that could cancel the order did, but the other one had already shipped. Amex did not hold me responsible for the charges, but we all pay for this stuff and I'm amazed that local law enforcement was not more interested in catching these people.
<< <i>You can prevent some of this stuff in the future by checking the following sources - >>
Or, he could have called The Bank of New York at 212.495.1784. I lookup and call on every cashier's check I receive.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Tom,
Have you contacted the Secret Service about this? They are also the Treasury Department's police force. They handle identity theft crimes. Becaus this is an interstate crime, it is going to fall under federal jurisdiction. You might want to try the FBI also.
I had someone hijack a credit card. I caught them ordering electronics form online retailers. The police in Baltimore (delivery address) were not interested. Amex was not interested because the statement had not been printed, so the transaction was not "official". The online retailer that could cancel the order did, but the other one had already shipped. Amex did not hold me responsible for the charges, but we all pay for this stuff and I'm amazed that local law enforcement was not more interested in catching these people. >>
The only interest the police have is in traffic violations and donut shops. You can't even count on them for help when you need them. Many years ago I had someone shoot a bullet through my window when I was sitting right next to it. The cop that showed up was P***** because I was wasting his time. Man, I mean I was shot at and I'm wasting your time. What a way to find out the cops are not your freind as they always try to act.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>The only interest the police have is in traffic violations and donut shops. >>
Sure seems that way sometimes. When I was burglarized in the fall of 2002, one of the items stolen was the checkbook for my money market account. An idiot teller at Homestreet Bank in Seattle cashed a $3250 forged check from the scumbag. I called the Seattle police department and they said that since the burglary happened in Kent, they couldn't do anything about the check. I called the Kent police department, and they said that since the stolen check was cashed in Seattle, I had to call the Seattle police department. I said screw this, and gave up.
The only silver lining was that the morons at Homestreet Bank were out $3250.
Russ, NCNE
Sorry about your window!
I'm lucky, my local police are actually very resourceful and helpful. Some kids went through the neighborhood smashing mailboxes and the police caught them (I reported it). He was a juvenile and the family court made him write letters of apology and pay restitution.
Part of my point is that you may need to contact the right branch of law enforcement to get the proper response. The local police could be more helpful and tell you that you need to contact the Secret Service or FBI.
<< <i>Very frustrating indeed. I find it utterly mind-boggling that the police will go bust a 17 yr. old shoplifter, some kid with a joint, or that they seemingly have all day long to write annoying tickets to tax abiding citizens. But, when it comes to actually going after real white collar fraud, they are as inept as Cletis on the Dukes of Hazzard.
White collar crime does pay, because the police could care less in most cases (or they don't understand the complexities of the crime), or lack the energy to do anything more than oogle the waitresses at the Dunkin doughnuts.
I think that if you were so inclined, you could go fly to the city where the crime occured (or call first to see if a detective will take your case) and provide evidence to the police of the fraudulant cashiers check and transaction. For the police, it would be as simple as going to the Post office to see who is registered at the P.O. box you sent the coin to, then going to his house and making an arrest.
Tyler >>
I can see Tyler must be an avid viewer of CSI and all of the other similar programming since he apparently knows everything there is to know about law enforcement, what we do, how we do it, and how we should do it. Why should I get pissed by such an arrogant, self-serving, ignorant, and ridiculous comment when such is the norm today. People do foolish things all of the time and yet it's always the fault of the police.
What do you want HIS police to do Tyler? Call someone in to go on a wild goose chase to Texas, pay their OT, their airfare, meals, etc?? The crime occurred wherever Tom is. He can certainly file a report with his police and ask them to have the agency in Texas to follow up on the matter and assist THEM. Fact is most large agencies don't have the personnel, much less time, to investigate matters that go across state lines. Most agencies are busy babysitting and parenting people's children and dealing with crimes such as burglary, assaults, domestic violence, DUI's, etc....but those aren't real crimes I guess.
These crooks today use prepaid phones, fake ID's, etc. Your fairytale ending to your ignorant reply is just that, a fairytale. Fact is many of these crooks are much smarter than even YOU and they're getting better and better at fake checks, etc every day. It's not that LE doesn't care about these checks and scams, it's that there is very little we can do about it.
There is a scam going on around our area now. People are receiving official looking checks from US companies for 4-5000.00. They come in an envelope with canadian postage. People are foolish enough to cash these, send the place money, and then in about a week the bank calls and tells them that the check was a fraud. The people then try and call the number that they called before, no longer working number. The scammer is off with a few thousand dollars and the person owes the bank the money. we've had 2 people fall for this in the past month.
Pac N Post
3505 S Dairy Ashford St
Houston, TX 77082
281.497.2548
Russ, NCNE
I have always been under the belief that a bank can return a check for up to a year after they first accept it and then they just reverse your deposit. I never thought this was right but if you figure the possibility that the check may have been stolen it could happen.
Thank goodness you were able to head them off at the pass and will get the coin returned.
Larry
Dabigkahuna
That was a HUGE mistake on your part. Bet you'll never let THAT happen again.
I check my credit card each and every day online. One day online I noticed a $400 Pay Pal charge on my AMEX. Now I know I use another charge for Pay Pal, and called Pay Pal and AMEX the same morning it was listed. I don't think the @#$% was able to get the $400. I also immediately canceled my credit card number.
<< <i>Glad you stopped the package and goose trying to explain our job to people like Tyler is like nailing jello to a tree very entertaing to those watching but a waste of our time. >>
You could educate some of us though. And that would not be a waste of your time. Just as I wouldn't expect you to know how to do my job at the level of detail that I know it from 20+ years of experience, you can't expect me to know yours at the level of detail that you know it.
Educate us. Tell us what we should do when confronted with this situation and how to work with law enforcement.
I could have the same attitude about people who can't use a computer very well, but I'd rather keep my clients.
<< <i>Glad you stopped the package and goose trying to explain our job to people like Tyler is like nailing jello to a tree very entertaing to those watching but a waste of our time. >>
We are too! ( looks like it anyway, but we'll know on monday).
Without any disrespect meant for the police, the officer who was in my home last night was essentially useless. Would not even call and advise Houston PD of anything. Told me that Houston was "out of control and who knows what they're doing over there" endquote. Said that the "economic crime unit" would be in touch with me in a week or two. Went on to tell me that he used to "ice-scate near the address on the sender's letterhead in Houston" ! ( By the way, excellent investigative work Russ, how'd ya find that out? Really good!
I'll admit that as good as I usually am about these things, this is one time I was snoozing and was nailed. Like I said though, first time in many many moons and Russ you're right, I should have called first. That's my fault. When you own your own business, especially a coin business you find that you have to be a kind of secret agent , numismatist, salesman, buyer, politician, bookeeper, collection agency, world traveler sometimes, body guard, investigator, etc etc etc all rolled into one. It's so much easier simply working for one of the big companies............but then again that's no fun at all
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>Glad you stopped the package and goose trying to explain our job to people like Tyler is like nailing jello to a tree very entertaing to those watching but a waste of our time. >>
You could educate some of us though. And that would not be a waste of your time. Just as I wouldn't expect you to know how to do my job at the level of detail that I know it from 20+ years of experience, you can't expect me to know yours at the level of detail that you know it.
Educate us. Tell us what we should do when confronted with this situation and how to work with law enforcement.
I could have the same attitude about people who can't use a computer very well, but I'd rather keep my clients. >>
The statement was directed at people like Tyler not the general public I agree educating the public is a high priority but in 18 years I've learned some folks are just a waste of my time sad but just a fact of life.
Each city, county, and state has different laws and policies the best advice I can give you is to check with your local agency on any crime prevention programs available and attend one this applies to bussiness owners as well as neighborhoods.
If every one did this I'de have fewer clients and would be very happy with that.
<< <i>( By the way, excellent investigative work Russ, how'd ya find that out? Really good! ) >>
I Googled the address.
Russ, NCNE
I'm sorry you had a cop who reponded in the manner he did, it's not up to him to tell you about Houston but it was his job to explain how his deprtment would handle your complaint and refer you to the proper location to get answers to questions he could not answer.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>BTW, the shipping address provided by the slimeball is a mail drop.
Pac N Post
3505 S Dairy Ashford St
Houston, TX 77082
281.497.2548
Russ, NCNE >>
:
<< <i>What I'd like to know is how the scumbag found you. What this an Ebay transaction? Other site?
I'd sure like to know if he uses an ebay handle.
thanks and good luck with the return of the coins.
bob >>
I followed a similiar scam unfold on the Currency Forum last October. From what could be figured out was that the scam people were getting their marks from Bank Note Reporter, kinda like NN or CW for coins.
Also, I'm saying this without any suggestion to how something like this should be handled because I don't know. But, is it smart to be talking about an ongoing crime in the open on a message board? If the person(s) who pulled this are knowledgeable about the PCGS forums and read this thread, then I doubt they will be picking up anything in Houston. Getting the info out so others don't get burned is definitely a priority. But doing it with a public forum seems to be letting the preps stay that one step ahead. Please, nobody read any finger pointing into what I just said. I have no solution or suggestion.
Jerry
I also appreciate your answer and the job that you (and others on this forum) do. I know that all police officers are not alike. I wish you did just get to drive around, drink coffee and eat donuts but we know that is not reality. I'm sure that the movies and TV don't help the average person understand all your job entails (even COPS is edited for TV). Of course my job isn't exciting enough for TV or movies, but I prefer to keep it that way.
You'll have to get the form on line since most Post Offices do not carry that form. But I was you, I'd call the Post Office which it was going to and tell them that you have filled out a 1509 SENDER'S APPLICATION FOR RECALL OF MAIL and would like to fax it to them with a follow up with your local post office.
Good luck!
<< <i>US Post Office Form 1509 - "SENDER'S APPLICATION FOR RECALL OF MAIL"
You'll have to get the form on line since most Post Offices do not carry that form. But I was you, I'd call the Post Office which it was going to and tell them that you have filled out a 1509 SENDER'S APPLICATION FOR RECALL OF MAIL and would like to fax it to them with a follow up with your local post office. >>
He already did that.
Russ, NCNE
I never knew it existed until I started this thread which has been a great help and very informative thus far.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>What I'd like to know is how the scumbag found you. What this an Ebay transaction? Other site?
I'd sure like to know if he uses an ebay handle.
thanks and good luck with the return of the coins.
bob >>
I followed a similiar scam unfold on the Currency Forum last October. From what could be figured out was that the scam people were getting their marks from Bank Note Reporter, kinda like NN or CW for coins.
Also, I'm saying this without any suggestion to how something like this should be handled because I don't know. But, is it smart to be talking about an ongoing crime in the open on a message board? If the person(s) who pulled this are knowledgeable about the PCGS forums and read this thread, then I doubt they will be picking up anything in Houston. Getting the info out so others don't get burned is definitely a priority. But doing it with a public forum seems to be letting the preps stay that one step ahead. Please, nobody read any finger pointing into what I just said. I have no solution or suggestion.
Jerry >>
This is the same guy that was doing it from California. He started scamming from California, moved to Texas, back to California and now it looks like he is back in Texas. Letter head and everything is the same. No blame can be placed as to why a check or bank check wasn't "verified" first, because none of the tellers can tell the difference. There are some security features that everyone should look for.
I am willing to bet that the address you shipped to is one of those mail box etc. kind of places, and the number you call either just rings or has a female stating you have reached the offices of blah blah blah.
I posted a thread here and on the currency side a while back about this guy. He will change his "company" name and address as he gets new mail boxes. Just be on the lookout for his MO.
There is a detective here in California who was assisting me by the name of Joe Pena. He was able to get the owners of the mailbox places to call the police when a package arrived for this guy. The thread should still be somewhere around here, but I am not good at doing searches. Look for the thread with all of the contact info, because we actually have the FBI involved.
This guy wont stop. He will keep going and changing his addresses and names.
The ANA sent out a "consumer alert" a while back about this guy as well.
edited to add: Another dead giveaway about this idiot is that he sends "professional" letter head with no fax number on it. Same color, same font.
Vice President
PCGS Currency
lkessler@pcgscurrency.com
www.PCGSCurrency.com
GENERAL INFORMATION
The Check Fraud Division of the District Attorney's Office is responsible for investigating and prosecuting the offense of theft by check.
The Check Fraud Division is part of the Public Service Bureau of the Harris County District Attorney's Office. The Check Fraud Division is one of the few divisions at the District Attorney's Office that is able to take reports of criminal conduct directly from the victim of the crime. In virtually all other crimes, allegations of criminal conduct are reported to the police, and the District Attorney's Office reviews the police report to decide what charges, if any, are appropriate. The cases that can ordinarily be handled by the Check Fraud Division without the necessity of a police report are those in which a person writes his or her own check in exchange for goods, services or cash, and in which the victim can identify that person.
http://dao-web.dao.hctx.net/ie/CheckFraud.cfm?choice=cfgen
Harris County Check Fraud Division
(713) 755-5829
1201 Franklin St
Houston, TX 77002
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I am willing to bet that the address you shipped to is one of those mail box etc. kind of places >>
It is. I already posted the name, address, and phone number.
Russ, NCNE
This is after the post office said it would be returned on monday. Can you believe this??
Anyone have any suggestions?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i> Do you know who your PM talked to this morning? >>
No I sure don't but I'm going to look into that as well and notify the authorities accordingly.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>You can prevent some of this stuff in the future by checking the following sources - >>
Or, he could have called The Bank of New York at 212.495.1784. I lookup and call on every cashier's check I receive.
Russ, NCNE >>
I was scrolling through this thread and waiting for this piece of info. Thanks Russ. As an ex-banker, another question we would ask on this is "Why is someone in Houston banking with someone in DE?" Usually, a firm/individual like this will work with a bank that they have a personal relationship or at last an ATM somewhere in town. My guess is that BofNY has no regional offices in Houston and I would also guess that this accounting firm is not nationwide.
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Here is one of many sites that deal with frauds, and this one is good because it has a lot of items that deal with Ebay.
Again, keeping my fingers crossed that this works out well.
Bruce
FraudAlert
NEWS
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: January 23, 2007
CONSUMER ALERT
CONTACT: Susan Mc Millan
Telephone: 719-482-9850
email: consumerawareness@money.org
BEWARE OF FRAUDULENT CASHIER'S CHECKS
It has come to our attention that several dealers have received fake cashier's checks from an individual in California. This individual has two known aliases and might have more we are not yet aware of: Marcus Smith dba Sunset Pointe Coin; Lawson, Colbert & Associates; and Williams, Smith & Associates; and James Gilmore dba Gilmore, Ellis & Associates. The various addresses used by this individual have all turned out to be mail box drop-off centers.
Detective Joe Pena of the Los Angeles County Sheriff Department confirmed that this individual has targeted various dealers who advertise in the Bank Note Reporter and in Coin World. However, Detective Pena suspects his activity is not limited to these two sources. Detective Pena is trying to determine the extent of this person's activities as well as locate and arrest him.
If you receive(d) an order for coins or paper money accompanied by a cashier's check you suspect was sent by this individual, or if you have any information regarding this individual, please contact Detective Pena or the ANA as soon as possible. Detective Pena can be reached at (562) 906-5404 or e-mail at jjpena@lasd.org.
Detective Pena has provided the following tips on how to safeguard yourself against fake cashier's checks:
Examine the cashier=s check closely and look for the following:
1. Authentic cashier=s checks have a microprint signature line and there is no text of any kind underneath that line.
2. Examine the border of the check. Do you see a microprint border around all of its edges? It should be there and it should also have a watermark printed on the back.
3. Locate the name of the financial institution that issued the cashier=s check. Get an actual phone number for the business through the internet or directory assistance, call them and ask for verification that the check is good.
4. Do not think that because someone at your bank has examined the cashier's check and assured you that it is valid, you will be safe later when the check turns out to be fake. You are responsible for all checks deposited into your account. Also, under federal law, banks have to make funds you deposit available, usually within 5 days. Just because you can withdraw the money does not mean that the check was good. Weeks later, when the bank is notified that the cashier=s check is fake, the amount will be deducted from your account. The bank has the right to do so and you will not have any recourse.
The ANA would like to personally thank Laura Kessler (ANA Member 3126448) of Kessler Coin & Currency for her countless hours of research and assistance with this investigation.
The American Numismatic Association is a nonprofit educational organization dedicated to educating and encouraging people to study and collect money and related items. With nearly 32,000 members, the Association serves the academic community, collectors and the general public with an interest in numismatics. The ANA helps all people discover and explore the world of money through its vast array of programs including its education and outreach, museum, library, publications, conventions and seminars. For more information about the ANA, call 719.632.2646 or visit www.MONEY.org.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>( By the way, excellent investigative work Russ, how'd ya find that out? Really good! ) >>
I Googled the address.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, we just typed in the address on another bad check we received and found out it's a UPS store.
16 years and not a single incidence. Now suddenly we have a run of them? I seriously doubt this is coincidental. Checking another one right now..........
I spoke with Laura tonight and she told me this "person" sends out orders to coin and currency dealers, picking them out and sending phony bank checks to people who advertise in coin world, etc etc. Sends out 20 and 30 at a clip. That we're not the only ones who are sitting up tonight, probably out of thousands of dollars, and with several orders, all bogus.
Yup, this other one is a UPS store too. Wow.
I'll be calling the FBI as well as the store owners tomorrow. I'm sure they'll all be interested in seeing what I have here. I will post copies of these checks as well. No stone will be left unturned . I believe there are definitely people right here on this forum that are setting people up.
What's really cool about yahoo is when you ask someone to confirm their shipping address, it comes in with a link to where that address is on a map AND if it has multiple addresses such as a UPS store or other mail drop it will show you that.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I used them when I was working for an employer who did not allow you to receive personal packages to be delivered to the office. When you had item that needed to be signed for, it made things difficult. The UPS stores (and places like that) allow you to have UPS, USPS and Fedex packages delivered there. They are open later so you can take care of business in the evening and not get into trouble with your employer.
I really hope this person (or people) get arrested in addition to Tom getting his coins back!
WH
<< <i>One of the sad things about this situation is that some people use places like the UPS store and PO boxes for legitimate reasons.
I used them when I was working for an employer who did not allow you to receive personal packages to be delivered to the office. When you had item that needed to be signed for, it made things difficult. The UPS stores (and places like that) allow you to have UPS, USPS and Fedex packages delivered there. They are open later so you can take care of business in the evening and not get into trouble with your employer.
I really hope this person (or people) get arrested in addition to Tom getting his coins back! >>
Absolutely ilikebuffaloes, they are really helpful . Unfortunately some of the things that have evolved in this hobby and business, such as the internet, which helps us all do more business, learn more, have more fun, are also being used against us. This is a new one to me and I'm trying to learn right quick about what to do.
Thank you and we'll know one way or another tomorrow whether or not we've lost out or not. No matter what though, there's a conspiracy going on to defraud many of us and sooner or later let's hope these people get caught.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I just wish somebody would put people in jail over this s#$%.
I hope everything works out tomorrow. With all of the high-end coins listed on usrarecoininvestments.com, I am a bit surprised that he picked two of the least expensive $20’s that are listed. I suppose he selected these coins to not draw attention to the possibility of fraud.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>I just wish somebody would put people in jail over this s#$%. >>
Frankly, I wish the police had the right to ( once they are found to be guilty) take them out back and beat the crap out of them.
Thanks for the best wishes for tomorrow. I'll be on the phone again with the post office first thing.
Later on I'll post pictures of the other bad checks and unless I am instructed otherwise, will also publish the names, email addresses of these people as well,
This has got to end somewhere.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Frankly, I wish the police had the right to ( once they are found to be guilty) take them out back and beat the crap out of them. >>
That should be a treat reserved for the person or persons who were wronged and not the police.
Good luck, Tom and keep us posted.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.