How does one get "Altered Surfaces" on a Crossover submission?

Connecticoin · August 3, 2007 7:14AM

Check this out: Link

There is a "DNC" so presumably this is a crossover submission. Did they bag the coin on Line 1 after cracking it out? I would not be pleased if that were the case!

tightbudget · August 3, 2007 7:14AM

If it were, ouch!

FLBuffaloHunter · August 3, 2007 7:18AM

Possibly PCGS originally determined the coin would cross while in the holder, then upon removing and grading the coin it was bagged for altered surfaces.

Barndog · August 3, 2007 7:44AM

PCGS won't break it out of the holder then throw the "altered surfaces" designation on it. Instead, they are providing a useful service to the submitter: rather than just saying "DNC" and leaving it at that, PCGS is telling the submitter why the coin did not cross. Crossover submissions can have results such as DNC, altered surfaces, cleaned (say it ain't so!), artificial color, etc. I like how PCGS gives a reason for its decisions in such cases, for it can only help out a collector. The submitter should receive the coins back in their original holders.

CoinKing · August 3, 2007 7:52AM

<< Check this out: Link

There is a "DNC" so presumably this is a crossover submission. Did they bag the coin on Line 1 after cracking it out? I would not be pleased if that were the case! >>

This was, indeed, a crossover order. The coin on the first line did not cross because the PCGS graders, upon examining the coin while it was still in its original holder, felt that the surfaces had been altered. The coin was never cracked out of the original holder.

DNC simply means that the coin failed to cross because of the grade.

The other five coins in the order did cross, yielding a success rate of over 70%. I'd say the submitter did a good job of screening the coins, since the average success rate on crossovers is in the 40-45% range.

ziggy29 · August 3, 2007 7:54AM

<< There is a "DNC" so presumably this is a crossover submission. Did they bag the coin on Line 1 after cracking it out? I would not be pleased if that were the case! >>

My understanding is that on crossover submissions, PCGS will not remove the coin from its original holder until they determine the coin will cross.

The only question mark I can think of is if there's problems on the edge that can't be seen in the original holder.

Barndog · August 3, 2007 7:55AM

<< 

<< Check this out: Link

There is a "DNC" so presumably this is a crossover submission. Did they bag the coin on Line 1 after cracking it out? I would not be pleased if that were the case! >>

This was, indeed, a crossover order. The coin on the first line did not cross because the PCGS graders, upon examining the coin while it was still in its original holder, felt that the surfaces had been altered. The coin was never cracked out of the original holder.

DNC simply means that the coin failed to cross because of the grade.

The other five coins in the order did cross, yielding a success rate of over 70%. I'd say the submitter did a good job of screening the coins, since the average success rate on crossovers is in the 40-45% range. >>

didn't I just say that?

thanks for the back-up, nobody would believe a half dime guy like me!

RYK · August 3, 2007 8:01AM

<< 

<< Check this out: Link

There is a "DNC" so presumably this is a crossover submission. Did they bag the coin on Line 1 after cracking it out? I would not be pleased if that were the case! >>

This was, indeed, a crossover order. The coin on the first line did not cross because the PCGS graders, upon examining the coin while it was still in its original holder, felt that the surfaces had been altered. The coin was never cracked out of the original holder. >>

I had the same happen to me, when I requested a cross at any grade, and the coin (my favorite coin in my collection, mind you) was returned to me in the NGC holder with a label that the coin had been tooled. I didn't think so. Doug Winter didn't think so. The handful of other dealers that I showed the coin to didn't think so. Not worth the effort of resubmitting in my case. Not worth the President Review. On the basis of that one coin and the result of my submission, I have decided that I no longer care if my collection is in PCGS plastic. Just thought I would share my story since it is on topic.

Connecticoin · August 5, 2007 11:45AM

Just checked back on this thread -- Barndog and Ron Guth, thanks for your responses!! As Barndog stated, it is nice for PCGS to let us know the reason why it did not cross if it was not solely grade related.

Zoins · August 5, 2007 11:49AM

<< I had the same happen to me, when I requested a cross at any grade, and the coin (my favorite coin in my collection, mind you) was returned to me in the NGC holder with a label that the coin had been tooled. I didn't think so. Doug Winter didn't think so. The handful of other dealers that I showed the coin to didn't think so. Not worth the effort of resubmitting in my case. Not worth the President Review. On the basis of that one coin and the result of my submission, I have decided that I no longer care if my collection is in PCGS plastic. Just thought I would share my story since it is on topic. >>

Sorry to hear that. I was wondering where you were on your slab consistency project.

BAJJERFAN · August 5, 2007 12:05PM

<< The only question mark I can think of is if there's problems on the edge that can't be seen in the original holder. >>

Which won't be seen in the new holder either.

Zoins · August 5, 2007 12:22PM

<< 

<< The only question mark I can think of is if there's problems on the edge that can't be seen in the original holder. >>

Which won't be seen in the new holder either. >>

Which is why it would be nice if TPGs moved to edge view holders for all coins.

BAJJERFAN · August 5, 2007 1:56PM

<< Which is why it would be nice if TPGs moved to edge view holders for all coins >>

Nah, too ugly IMO.

PrivateCoinCollector · August 5, 2007 2:07PM

That is my submission AND the coin was in an NGC Holder. They all were and they all crossed at the same grade except the 2. However, there is more to the story! The 88-S? It was returned by PCGS last year as altered surface as well. I sent it to NCS, they did what they do and put it in an NGC Slab in a decent grade. I guess PCGS now agrees. I just wanted all the coins in PCGS plastic for my registry.

PrivateCoinCollector · August 5, 2007 2:08PM

<< 

<< Check this out: Link

There is a "DNC" so presumably this is a crossover submission. Did they bag the coin on Line 1 after cracking it out? I would not be pleased if that were the case! >>

This was, indeed, a crossover order. The coin on the first line did not cross because the PCGS graders, upon examining the coin while it was still in its original holder, felt that the surfaces had been altered. The coin was never cracked out of the original holder.

DNC simply means that the coin failed to cross because of the grade.

The other five coins in the order did cross, yielding a success rate of over 70%. I'd say the submitter did a good job of screening the coins, since the average success rate on crossovers is in the 40-45% range. >>

OK, my head is getting real big.

ALHENDER22 · August 5, 2007 3:30PM

Who's holder was the coin in that you tried to Cross over to PCGS? Answer this question and you might have the reason PCGS wouldnt cross it to there HOLDER and bagged
the coin due to altered surfaces.

Al

PrivateCoinCollector · August 5, 2007 11:46PM

NGC. They were all NGC, so I am not sure the theory holds.

19Lyds · August 5, 2007 11:53PM

In reply to the original question, one gets Altered Surfaces on crossover submissions because grading is subjective.

Resubmit the coin and you might just get a crossover as you did with the 88-S.

ajia · August 6, 2007 1:05AM

It was returned by PCGS last year as altered surface as well. I sent it to NCS, they did what they do and put it in an NGC Slab in a decent grade. I guess PCGS now agrees.

Herein lies my issue with "Altered Surface".
What does that mean?

"......altered surfaces" designation on it. Instead, they are providing a useful service to the submitter: rather than just saying "DNC" and leaving it at that, PCGS is telling the submitter why the coin did not cross.

Ok, better than just DNC, but still ambiguous.
Is it always something that can be removed, like some sort of residue? Hence the trip to NCS took care of it.
Or can it be something more perminent? Stains, 'milk spots', etc.

Would be nice to know exactly what the graders spotted.

Maybe a trip to NCS will make the 1889-S gradable?

PrivateCoinCollector · August 6, 2007 1:38AM

It is a mystic catch-all. It is not cleaned bad enough, it seems to be a little too shiney, it has too much Coin Care on it etc. Who knows?

How does one get "Altered Surfaces" on a Crossover submission?

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How does one get &quot;Altered Surfaces&quot; on a Crossover submission?

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How does one get "Altered Surfaces" on a Crossover submission?