If you ever wanted a nice BAR cent... Here's your chance
Dennis88
Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
Dennis88
Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
Dennis88
Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
Comments
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>It's a Bar Copper, not a Cent.
Russ, NCNE >>
I guess PCGS got it wrong too?.........
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>What is this, "National Post An Anaconda Coin" day? LOL >>
I'm searching the Heritage archives right now.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>What is this, "National Post An Anaconda Coin" day? LOL >>
I'm searching the Heritage archives right now.
Russ, NCNE >>
<< <i>What is this, "National Post An Anaconda Coin" day? LOL >>
I was thinking it was closer to "National Slam Anaconda" day.
<< <i>
<< <i>What is this, "National Post An Anaconda Coin" day? LOL >>
I was thinking it was closer to "National Slam Anaconda" day.
Nooooooooooo... that's every other day
<< <i>
<< <i>What is this, "National Post An Anaconda Coin" day? LOL >>
I was thinking it was closer to "National Slam Anaconda" day.
all press is good press !!!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What is this, "National Post An Anaconda Coin" day? LOL >>
I was thinking it was closer to "National Slam Anaconda" day.
all press is good press !!!!!! >>
Hey, at least I'm here in an open discussion. It's fun to take digs at people who get to play with over $2,000,000 on a daily basis. I'm game. I know I'm honest so I don't lose a wink of sleep at night.
Zack Lee!!
<< <i>
<< <i> >>
I'm searching the Heritage archives right now.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, I beat you to it. I found the original speciman before it was all cleaned up and slabbed.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a Bar Copper, not a Cent.
Russ, NCNE >>
I guess PCGS got it wrong too?......... >>
I read "Cent" on the slab also.
Russ put in the winkie face with his post.
Whatever it is called, it sure is a nice one.
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etexmike
<< <i><< It's a Bar Copper, not a Cent.
Russ, NCNE >>
I guess PCGS got it wrong too?......... >>
I read "Cent" on the slab also.
Russ put in the winkie face with his post. >>
Would you guys be surprised to learn that PCGS is wrong?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i><< It's a Bar Copper, not a Cent.
Russ, NCNE >>
I guess PCGS got it wrong too?......... >>
I read "Cent" on the slab also.
Russ put in the winkie face with his post. >>
Would you guys be surprised to learn that PCGS is wrong?
Russ, NCNE >>
Actually, Russ would be correct that it is NOT a cent. Here's some neat info from coins.nd.edu
As with several other tokens of the period, little is known about the origin of the undated bar coppers. Most probably they were minted in Birmingham at the request of a New York merchant. From the New Jersey Gazette of November 12, 1785, we learn:
A new and curious kind of coppers have lately made their appearance in New York. The novelty and bright gloss of which keeps them in circulation. These coppers are in fact similar to Continental buttons without eyes; on the one side are thirteen stripes and on the other U.S.A., as was usual on the soldiers buttons.
At an average weight of 80.8 - 87.2 grains this coin was even lighter that most Birmingham products. Thus, it is unlikely they passed for more than the standard rate of fourteen coppers to the shilling. For this reason, we may assume they do not deserve their traditional name of "bar cents" but rather should be called coppers or tokens. They are usually found on narrow planchets with incomplete rim denticles.
<< <i>It's a Bar Copper, not a Cent.
Russ, NCNE >>
NGC labels it as a token and not a cent.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
<< <i><< It's a Bar Copper, not a Cent.
Russ, NCNE >>
NGC labels it as a token and not a cent. >>
I think the services should just label them VERY COOL.
Russ, NCNE
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Seems overgraded
<< <i>ARC has more shills than downtown Vegas... I apologize in advance for stating the obvious... >>
Thanks.
<< <i>Would you guys be surprised to learn that PCGS is wrong? >>
Say it ain't so - this is the end of life as I know it
Dan
">Franklin Halves
">Kennedy Halves
<< <i>Is it true that ALL genuine bar cents have a die chip inbetween two of the bars? And if so is it the best way to tell the real deal from the fakes? >>
It would be hard to say, but everything that I have read and the few Bar Cents (coppers, if you please) that I have owned have the spike near the end of the second bar. There are other diagnostics: The S must always pass under the A. Most copies are garbage and easily dismissed. The Bolen copies (done in the 1860s) were struck copies and he actually used a genuine Bar Cent when he copied the dies, although it was not a transfer copy so things are off (the S is over the A and no die chip). Breen mentioned a thin die crack between bars near the center, but I have never noticed this diagnostic.
<< <i>The die crack in the central reverse is indeed a diagnostic and is evident in the photos here. >>
You are right. I see it clearly now that you point it out to me. I guess the die chip at bar 2 is recommended as a diagnostic because it is larger and appears on low grade specimens.
To address fivecent's question again: Die chips and breaks can occur during the manufacture of any die (i.e. slip of the engraver's tool, poor metallurgy, etc.), but most often they come from use of the dies. Therefore, one could presume that the breaks on the Bar Cent (ummm, I mean "Copper") occurred after multiple strikings. That would, of course, mean that it is possible that some Bar Coppers exist without the breaks. Are there any known examples? I don't know. Not to my limited knowledge (and I have owned a few and viewed many others).
Maybe some of the colonial specialists will share there thoughts and experiences in this thread. Maybe some that don't have the chip or break have previously been rejected as counterfeit, especially considering that Breen stated that ALL Bar Coppers have the die breaks. It has become the mandatory diagnostic. Being even more radical, let's speculate that the first 1000 or so struck were melted for whatever reason, then more were struck, but by then the dies were cracked. There are other possibilities. Just some food for thought......
As with several other tokens of the period, little is known about the origin of the undated bar coppers. Most probably they were minted in Birmingham at the request of a New York merchant. From the New Jersey Gazette of November 12, 1785, we learn:
>>
Birmingham, AL ???
<< <i>As with several other tokens of the period, little is known about the origin of the undated bar coppers. Most probably they were minted in Birmingham at the request of a New York merchant. From the New Jersey Gazette of November 12, 1785, we learn:
>>
Birmingham, AL ??? >>
I think it's Birmingham, England.
Russ, NCNE