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Big Announcement - New So-Called Dollar Book Coming
tmot99
Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
Some of you know, and some don't. But I have teamed up with jonathanb and Art Friedberg (current copyright holder of the Hibler-Kappen book on So-Called Dollars) to edit and re-release So-Called Dollars by Hibler and Kappen. We are working hard to get corrections made to the errors in the book, fill in with missing known pieces such as off-metal varieties, etc. We have a lot of work yet to do, but we are well on our way. My goal is to have it out on the market early in 2007.
I'd like to thank other participants in this endeavour, MadMarty, dealmakr, and cadmanco. I'd also like to thank Brian Silliman and NGC for their help on this project. We are trying to put in a picture of each and every variety listed,e xcept where we can say "Obverse of ## and reverse of ##" which there are plenty.
On top of it all, we have a website, www.so-calleddollars.com that will have a lot of the information that will be in the book, but not all. The website is free and will remain free. Currently on the site is just some of the pictures we have posted and as of right now, not many of the new varieties have been listed.
Changes that will be seen:
1) More pictures, more information.
2) More listings, primarily off-metal varieties, but also some totally new items.
3) Cross references to other medal/token books such as Eglit and Rulau (only in the book edition)
4) The book may have some color pages, but this is still being looked into as it will add cost to the book.
What you won't see: Part 4 which is the "Unique Medals". These have been incorporated into the rest of the book. The numbers have stayed the same for this edition, but a new numbering system will likely need to be made the next go-around.
The website still needs some work. Pages that list be HK number are being rewritten and hopefully will be done next week. To get the brunt of the information, look under "By Event".
If anyone has pictures that they would like to submit for publication, please contact me either at tomhoffm@sbcglobal.net or info@so-calleddollars.com.
I'd like to thank other participants in this endeavour, MadMarty, dealmakr, and cadmanco. I'd also like to thank Brian Silliman and NGC for their help on this project. We are trying to put in a picture of each and every variety listed,e xcept where we can say "Obverse of ## and reverse of ##" which there are plenty.
On top of it all, we have a website, www.so-calleddollars.com that will have a lot of the information that will be in the book, but not all. The website is free and will remain free. Currently on the site is just some of the pictures we have posted and as of right now, not many of the new varieties have been listed.
Changes that will be seen:
1) More pictures, more information.
2) More listings, primarily off-metal varieties, but also some totally new items.
3) Cross references to other medal/token books such as Eglit and Rulau (only in the book edition)
4) The book may have some color pages, but this is still being looked into as it will add cost to the book.
What you won't see: Part 4 which is the "Unique Medals". These have been incorporated into the rest of the book. The numbers have stayed the same for this edition, but a new numbering system will likely need to be made the next go-around.
The website still needs some work. Pages that list be HK number are being rewritten and hopefully will be done next week. To get the brunt of the information, look under "By Event".
If anyone has pictures that they would like to submit for publication, please contact me either at tomhoffm@sbcglobal.net or info@so-calleddollars.com.
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Comments
I look forward to learning from, and contributing to the site.
I've been collecting SC$ for about 2 years and have enjoyed it a great deal. It will be fantastic to have up to date reference material
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Our intention at this time is to keep it to the 1963 era that HK brought it to. We may extend it further into the 60s as NGC has expressed interest in a reference for those. That is still being thought on.
How do you think the new book will impact the current $100+ price tag of the first edition HK book?
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>How do you think the new book will impact the current $100+ price tag of the first edition HK book? >>
I'd expect it to drop dramatically. The new version will likely be cheaper (price hasn't been determined but the numbers we've thrown out are much less than $100), and will have more pictures and more information so the old book should become useless. Again, working with the copyrightholder allows us to use all the exact same information, make corrections and additions, and provide better material for the collector.
<< <i>What years will the book cover? Cutting it off in 1961 seems to make little sense. 1958 would be a more logical date since the series medals (Heraldic Art) that changed medal collecting came along in 1959. >>
Are Heraldic Art medals considered so-called dollars? Do they fit in the guidelines?
WOW! This site went straight into my favs...looks very organized so far, congrats on this endeaver.
This will be of great assiatance to help indentify those curious strikes.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>
<< <i>What years will the book cover? Cutting it off in 1961 seems to make little sense. 1958 would be a more logical date since the series medals (Heraldic Art) that changed medal collecting came along in 1959. >>
Are Heraldic Art medals considered so-called dollars? Do they fit in the guidelines? >>
It depends. From the ones I've seen, a lot of them appear to be after-the-fact type of medals, not issued at the time to celebrate the fair or event. I'm not totally familiar with the series, but have seen a few. If they did the minting for a particular event at the time of the event, then they should be included.
BTW, congrats on the new book effort. I will certainly be a customer!
<< <i>On top of it all, we have a website, www.so-calleddollars.com that will have a lot of the information that will be in the book, but not all. >>
Looks like a good start to the site, but may I make one gentle suggestion right off? The file size of the medal you show on the front page is rather huge. Dial-uppers will be cursing you. A coin pic that size should be no more than 20-30K, yet yours is over 500K in size.
Other than that, the site is awesome.
<< <i>Cool!
Yep, this is a different one. Let me layout exactly what happened here...
I've only been collecting for 6 months. I knew the book was outdated and had talked to Jeff Shevlin abouthis book. At ANA he told me that it was at least a year out. Others had said that he's been saying that for a long time. Needing some form of online reference, I looked and bought www.so-calleddollars.com It was cheap and available. I put some information together virtually plagerizing the HK book just for an example and asked for jonathan's opinion. He said looks good, but your infringing copyright. The copyright holder is Art and I know how to get a hold of him.
From just trying to put the HK book on the internet, I'm now working on a new edition of it. I just want to be clear with everyone that I am not and do not claim to be an expert. I am, for the most part, collecting information from many sources, and compiling it all into the new HK book.
I will be attempting to talk to Jeff later today to let him know. We are working on issuing a press release very soon and wanted to let the forum know about it first.
<< <i>
<< <i>On top of it all, we have a website, www.so-calleddollars.com that will have a lot of the information that will be in the book, but not all. >>
Looks like a good start to the site, but may I make one gentle suggestion right off? The file size of the medal you show on the front page is rather huge. Dial-uppers will be cursing you. A coin pic that size should be no more than 20-30K, yet yours is over 500K in size.
Other than that, the site is awesome. >>
jonathan's my web guy. I've got no clue how to write pages, yet he has been able to guide me through the basics. I started it all with a program that kind of did weird things and he suggested writing the pages from scratch. He provided a template to work off of. The menu buttons will also be changing in the near future.
Just out of curiosity, what ways would you all like to search by? I figured event, HK#, and year. If you were to find a new medal, you would have one of those bits of information already so that's all you need. Are there other suggestions for searching?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What years will the book cover? Cutting it off in 1961 seems to make little sense. 1958 would be a more logical date since the series medals (Heraldic Art) that changed medal collecting came along in 1959. >>
Are Heraldic Art medals considered so-called dollars? Do they fit in the guidelines? >>
It depends. From the ones I've seen, a lot of them appear to be after-the-fact type of medals, not issued at the time to celebrate the fair or event. I'm not totally familiar with the series, but have seen a few. If they did the minting for a particular event at the time of the event, then they should be included. >>
It seems like at least some HK So-Called Dollars are after-the-fact type medals and not connected to a fair or event, e.g. HK-506 American Commemorative Society's Paul Revere Dollar. I'm still trying to get a handle on what qualifies as a SCD. It seems like a medal for Paul Revere would qualify under these extended definitions. It's interesting that people is limited to non-Presidents and that distinction was made b/c there was another reference for Presidential medals. If there wasn't another reference at the time, would Presidential medals have been included in HK?
I resized the picture from your main page in my image editor to the 173x173 pixels that the html was setting the picture size to. (I hope you don't mind
It looks like a great resource!
Edited to add- I think the blue text links would look good in white, myself. I really like the grey background. Also, you could make the visited links yellow or something.
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>The SCD Amanda just posted is identical to one I sold at the Baltimore show in July. I knew I should have priced it higher. >>
Right now might be a good time to stock up on SC$s. If a new definitive guide is coming onto the market, it might bring along a lot of new interest in them, raising up prices.
I've currently got exactly *one* SC$, and I'm holding
<< <i>How do you think the new book will impact the current $100+ price tag of the first edition HK book? >>
It's value will drop like a proof set that the mint places on sale again.
So far as the 1959 Heraldic Art Medals go, the three 1959 issues I am aware of (Alaska Statehood, Hawaii Statehood, and the Opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway) were all contemporary issues relating to events of 1959.
<< <i>
<< <i>How do you think the new book will impact the current $100+ price tag of the first edition HK book? >>
It's value will drop like a proof set that the mint places on sale again. >>
I wholeheartedly disagree! I believe the new book will bring new interest and collectors. The first edition HK book will skyrocket as it IS a must-have for all serious SCD collectors!
<< <i>Right now might be a good time to stock up on SC$s. If a new definitive guide is coming onto the market, it might bring along a lot of new interest in them, raising up prices. >>
Shhhh. Don't let them know that yet. I'm still buying them all up.
<< <i>
<< <i>Right now might be a good time to stock up on SC$s. If a new definitive guide is coming onto the market, it might bring along a lot of new interest in them, raising up prices. >>
Shhhh. Don't let them know that yet. I'm still buying them all up.
Your secret is safe with me. I won't tell a soul...
<< <i>The first edition HK book will skyrocket as it IS a must-have for all serious SCD collectors! >>
But will it still be a "must have" when all the information is in the new book? Plus more besides? At a lower price? Normally when that happens the old book is only desired for historical or nostalgic reasons. Or if you are also a bibliophile and just want the book because you like books.
Off-metal versions:
If you have off-metal versions of listed designs, please start off by just sending us an email with the HK number and the new metal. Board member dealmakr has a very extensive listing of off-metal pieces that we will be incorporating (it's not on the web site yet). There's a decent chance that we'll already know about most pieces, but any given piece could have been overlooked, so definitely please send the info.
Pricing of old edition:
As far as pricing goes for the old book, my guess is that it will remain similar to where it is now, but for totally different reasons. Right now, There's a high demand for the 1963 edition because nothing else is available, so there are a lot of people fighting over any copy that becomes available. Once the new version comes out, I expect that there will be hardly any interest in the older edition. But with less interest in the older version, fewer copies will probably be made available, and the price will remain high for the few people who do want a copy for their reference. Of course, this is just speculation on my part. I sort of doubt that anyone is sitting on a hoard of the old edition, so it doesn't much matter anyway.
Issues with large pictures:
Yeah, I know. I will be working with Tom to beat them into shape, but it's not the highest priority. I'm much more concerned in making sure that we have some sort of pictures for each variety. Getting good pictures will happen in parallel. As Tom said in his original post, we'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who has pictures that they can contribute, particular for issues where we have no pictures at all, and secondarily for issues where you can provide better pictures than the ones that we do have.
Color issues on web site:
Yeah, I know. See previous. The trick in this case is coming up with something better, and not simply something different. If anyone is html savvy and thinks they have a better idea, I think the best thing would be for you to download the source for one of the pages, and produce a modified version that you think is an improvement. Send it to Tom, and we'll see about incorporating your suggestions.
Scope of the new book:
Yeah, there are some strange omissions in the 1963 edition, and some equally strange inclusions. Unfortunately, it's going to be a massive amount of work to reconcile everything, and even more work to extend past 1963. The short-term plan, therefore, is to get a new edition into press without starting over from scratch. NGC has already started assigning new "HK" numbers for medals that clearly shoulld have been included, particularly for new medals produced for already-listed events. We will likely do the same thing. My guess is that any newly-listed medals will be only perhaps 5-10% of the total, and perhaps even less than that.
Once this new edition is completed, we can then dive into the much larger projects. When we start listing lots of new medals, we'll probably have to come up with an entire new numbering system, which is going to be a big challenge on top of everything else. If we double the number of medals listed, how will that affect the production costs? There are a lot of difficult questions to answer. Rather than spend 5 years trying to figure out how to answer them, we're going to try to get this new version out fairly quicly, and then spend the 5 years (or whatever) thinking about the rest.
FWIW, I think the Heraldic Art medals probably "should" be included, but if they are included, then shouldn't the rest of the Mardi Gras Doubloons (HK-579) also be included? But there are zillions of Mardi Gras Doubloons, and if we include them all, then they'll swamp everything else. So does that mean they shouldn't be included? Lots of difficult questions.
Those are my thoughts, anyway. We'd be very interested in any other feedback, either here or off-list.
Thanks!
jonathan
<< <i>NGC has already started assigning new "HK" numbers for medals that clearly shoulld have been included, particularly for new medals produced for already-listed events. >>
That raises an interesting question -- are you working with NGC or any other grading service? It would definitely be a big plus when the book is released for it to be recognized as a standard by the services.
<< <i>
<< <i>The first edition HK book will skyrocket as it IS a must-have for all serious SCD collectors! >>
But will it still be a "must have" when all the information is in the new book? Plus more besides? At a lower price? Normally when that happens the old book is only desired for historical or nostalgic reasons. Or if you are also a bibliophile and just want the book because you like books. >>
Conder101, you are assuming rationality in your analysis. We are collectors and so we must collect; put sane behavior aside. I know the First Edition HK will become a rare collectable. Mark my words!
How is the effort going?
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>How is the project progressing? Any update or time frame in mind? Looking forward to it! >>
Good question. Tmot99, what is the status?
The series that should be included is the US Mint National Mint Medals as classified by Turner. Most of these meet all of the standards for a so-called dollar, and in fact several of them were classifed by both H&K and Turner (i.e. Albany Cradle of the Union HK-510-512 is Turner #A1, Nevada Silver Centennial HK-552 is Turner #1, and there are 5 others classified by Turner that were listed in the original HK Book.) These references to Turner will also be in the new book, thanks to the efforts of Tom and Jonathan. There were 52 US Mint National medals struck by the US Mint from 1954 to 1988, of which 46, based on both size and other criteria which should be classified as "future" so-called dollars by definition.
John
Evergreen, Colorado
cadmanco
<< <i>Scope of the new book:
...
Once this new edition is completed, we can then dive into the much larger projects. When we start listing lots of new medals, we'll probably have to come up with an entire new numbering system, which is going to be a big challenge on top of everything else. If we double the number of medals listed, how will that affect the production costs? There are a lot of difficult questions to answer. Rather than spend 5 years trying to figure out how to answer them, we're going to try to get this new version out fairly quicly, and then spend the 5 years (or whatever) thinking about the rest.
jonathan >>
Maybe you could do what Krause does with their world coin catalog - have one book for pre-1964 issues, and another book for post-1964 issues.
Regarding the large number of Mardi-Gras "doubloons" -
Maybe exclude items that are for annual events (like Mardi Gras, the Superbowl, Christmas, etc).
<< <i>It's coming, it's coming. We are wrapping up the review process and still trying to gather the last of the pictures. I'd like to have it in the publishing process by Long Beach in September. I can' guarantee that it will be, but that's where I'd like it to be. >>
Thanks for the update Tmott99. I am looking forward to!
How do you plan on distributing the book? Are you accepting preorders?